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26 replies to this topic

#1 of 27 gcan

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Posted December 23 2008 - 12:43 PM

I just purchased myself a Christmas present - a Panasonic 50" plasma TV and a Sony 350 blu ray player.

My Direct TV system is HD also so why do a lot of the TV shows and even movies have the side bars making the picture smaller?

I bought a 50" TV to have a bigger picture not to have it cropped.
I do have the TV, Sat box, and player set to 16:9 wide


Please help....

Greg

#2 of 27 Jon Martin

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Posted December 23 2008 - 12:58 PM

Many programs aren't widescreen. When you see those bars, the program isn't in widescreen. Rather than distort the picture, or cut off information, those bars are shown.

#3 of 27 John Sparks

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Posted December 23 2008 - 02:44 PM

A great majority of TV shows are made for 4x3 sceens (square), you have a 16x9 screen (rectangle), hence, a square in a rectangle...black/grey bars on the sides.
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#4 of 27 Chuck Pennington

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Posted December 23 2008 - 08:32 PM

... unless you want to crop or stretch it, like how I see 4x3 content on all of the 16x9 displays at stores. Just horrible, but the same people who wanted pan/scan transfers so "the picture fills the screen" also want 4x3 films to fill the screen on their 16x9 televisions.

I have a 42" HDTV and don't mind the bars on the sides for 4x3 films, just like I didn't mind the letterboxing of widescreen films on my prior 25" 4x3 SDTV. It's all about showing the original aspect ratio of a film, or using the format buttons to modify it to fit what you want.

Dish Network's HD receiver has a format button to allow all of the different viewing modes (gray bar, normal, stretch, partial zoom and zoom) on any SD or HD channel. I'm sure DirecTV's HD receiver has something similar if you look.

#5 of 27 Jeff Willis

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Posted December 24 2008 - 01:01 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by gcan
I just purchased myself a Christmas present - a Panasonic 50" plasma TV and a Sony 350 blu ray player.

My Direct TV system is HD also so why do a lot of the TV shows and even movies have the side bars making the picture smaller?

I bought a 50" TV to have a bigger picture not to have it cropped.
I do have the TV, Sat box, and player set to 16:9 wide


Please help....

Greg

Greg,

Conrats on your recent purchases. I bought that 50" Panasonic Plasma myself this past August.

Jon, John, and Chuck answered your questions very well. I also have the DirecTV HD service and they have some adjustment options for viewing formats although I don't recall seeing any "zoom" options available as with Dish Network's receivers. I have my DTV HD Box set to "Native" format wich means that the Receiver will automatically set the format to the channel's originating format, either 4:3 or 16:9 . The DTV box apparently sends out a sig to my Plasma TV to adjust the TV format accordingly. It's been working good for me. One thing that is a slight inconvience to me, anyway, is that if you've been watching a 4:3 format show on your TV, the screen will remain at that format until you tune to a 16:9 show. In other words, the on-screen displays, channel guides, etc, will remain in 4:3 mode until you select a 16:9 channel.

The DTV Receiver will also let you select the "piller box" (side bars) color schemes if I recall. I think the choices are grey or black. The options are available from the "setup" menu under the "HD" sub-menu if I recall correctly.

Regarding the sidebars & vertical bars, I'm one of the "orig aspect ratio" guys. I don't use the "zoom" modes to fill up the screen for a 4:3 or LB picture. It's a matter of personal preference.

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#6 of 27 Jon Martin

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Posted December 24 2008 - 02:06 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Pennington
... unless you want to crop or stretch it, like how I see 4x3 content on all of the 16x9 displays at stores. Just horrible, but the same people who wanted pan/scan transfers so "the picture fills the screen" also want 4x3 films to fill the screen on their 16x9 televisions.

I'm sort of afraid that we are going to see a sort of return to the "I hate black bars" complaints of years past. I've read many complaints recently (even on HTF!!) with people saying how much they hate the bars on the side of the picture. Many of these are from people who would look down on those who complain about letterboxing.

#7 of 27 BillyFeldman

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Posted December 24 2008 - 03:51 AM

Many predicted this is exactly what would happen when widescreen TVs became the norm. All those people who had 4.3 sets and wanted their screens filled now want their widescreen set screens filled - the other way.

#8 of 27 Steve_Pannell

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Posted December 24 2008 - 04:23 AM

I've been wondering what will happen to the "This film has been modified to fit this screen" disclaimer when widescreen TVs become the norm. I just hope they don't crop and stretch.

#9 of 27 TravisR

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Posted December 24 2008 - 05:50 AM

Considering the studios released all but a handful of titles in their correct AR during the era of 4x3 TVs, I don't see any need to panic about the studio suddenly deciding to only release cropped material for 16x 9 TVs.

#10 of 27 BillyFeldman

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Posted December 24 2008 - 09:35 AM

I don't think the studios will do anything incorrectly - I think the owners of the sets will do everything all by themselves. Posted Image

#11 of 27 Joe Karlosi

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Posted December 25 2008 - 12:15 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyFeldman
Many predicted this is exactly what would happen when widescreen TVs became the norm. All those people who had 4.3 sets and wanted their screens filled now want their widescreen set screens filled - the other way.

That's exactly what I figured was going to happen. But while I personally don't stretch the image, at least those people who for whatever their reasons can't tolerate the side bars, now have the technology to "stretch" their 4:3 picture to fill the screen. Hey, if it means they'll be quiet and the DVD companies don't start caving into them by making all 4:3 TV shows and film releases "artifically wide" , let them do what they want.

#12 of 27 Ernest

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Posted December 25 2008 - 08:20 AM

B

#13 of 27 Greg_S_H

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Posted December 25 2008 - 09:03 AM

What? OAR is not a floating standard. It stands for Original Aspect Ratio. In other words, the aspect ratio the director intended, the cinematographer set up for, etc. You can put your 16x9 on zoom for 4x3 material if you want, but you can't say, "That's my OAR. You can have your OAR on your TV."

#14 of 27 BillyFeldman

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Posted December 25 2008 - 10:06 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernest
There are no rules stating what is OAR so everything is fair game.

For DVD 4 x 3 fills the screen which is what the majority want. 1:85 x 1 or larger are displayed with skinny horizontial bars which is acceptable even though the majority prefers to have the screen filled.

The networks broadcast all non-HD programming in 4x3 with pillar bars filling out the 16 x 9 format. Not sure where that idea came from its just the type of decision networks loosing market share would make. BluRay has got this one right 4 x 3 fills the screen.

Some movie channels fill the screen setting their own standard for OAR. This appears to be acceptable by the fact millions subscribe to those channels and there must be few complaining. Even though I am in the minority, I won't subscribe to them because I don't like watching movies that are cropped.

Some programmers up-convert STD (480i) to HD format 720P or 1081i and advertise as an HD programmer. It is important to be in the HD game even though in the true sense you are not in the HD game.

In otherwords, its a mixed bag programmers are given a green light to determine the OAR that suits their subscribers.

The 16 x 9 format was agreed upon by the DVD forum as a compromise between Hollywood movies and Network programming. Movies wider than 1:85 x 1 would be displayed with skinny horizontial black bars and 4 x 3 would fill the screen. And that is the way video is displayed on STD DVD and BluRay. For everyone else OAR is a mixed bag with a green light for whatever the programmer/network believes their subscribers wants to see.

In the end OAR is nothing more than what the viewer wants to see. If the viewer wants the screen filled then that is OAR to them. If the Director's cut is OAR to the viewer then the viewer needs BluRay. BluRay has it right period.

First off, Merry Christmas. That said, this is one of most ignorant posts I've ever read. Please explain how 4.3 fills the screen of a widescreen TV. It doesn't. And it's "losing" not "loosing." Oh, maybe I'm misunderstanding - maybe you meant this post as a joke. That would explain everything. Posted Image

#15 of 27 gcan

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Posted December 25 2008 - 11:47 AM

Billy - I started this thread because I'm not the expert you obviously are, I asked a question so I could find out if I possibly set something up wrong or if the bars are the norm.

Please don't think people ignorant because they may not seems as knowledgeable as you in specific areas

Thanks to all for enlightening me on the subject

Greg

#16 of 27 BillyFeldman

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Posted December 25 2008 - 12:35 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by gcan
Billy - I started this thread because I'm not the expert you obviously are, I asked a question so I could find out if I possibly set something up wrong or if the bars are the norm.

Please don't think people ignorant because they may not seems as knowledgeable as you in specific areas

Thanks to all for enlightening me on the subject

Greg

My "ignorant" post was clearly aimed at "Ernest", not you - his is the post I quoted in my response. "Ernest's" post is ignorant - filled with information that is not correct. I'm sure he's a nice person and all, but really, either his post was meant amusingly or he doesn't know what he is talking about.

#17 of 27 Jeff Gatie

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Posted December 25 2008 - 01:04 PM

Quote:
For DVD 4 x 3 fills the screen which is what the majority want. 1:85 x 1 or larger are displayed with skinny horizontial bars which is acceptable even though the majority prefers to have the screen filled.

Except for a very, very few titles, widescreen OAR DVD's have outsold their fullscreen counterparts, even in the early days of DVD, when all TV's were 4:3. Please do not state things about the "majority" that you have no clue about.

Quote:
BluRay has got this one right 4 x 3 fills the screen.

My 4:3 Blu-ray titles are displayed on my 65" widescreen with pillar box bars on the side. Care to take back the above statement?

Quote:
Some programmers up-convert STD (480i) to HD format 720P or 1081i and advertise as an HD programmer. It is important to be in the HD game even though in the true sense you are not in the HD game.

No, no network can broadcast upconverted SD and call it HD. Please show me where this is going on so I can notify the FCC.

#18 of 27 Greg_S_H

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Posted December 25 2008 - 02:34 PM

A lot of channels do this. TNT and TBS HD do sometimes play true HD programming, but more often than not, they are simply zooming on the exact same source they are running on their non-HD channels. The effect is quite horrible. You get some really strange geometrical defects with this. I don't think they're violating their charters, however.

#19 of 27 gcan

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Posted December 25 2008 - 02:40 PM

Billy - sorry I thought you were referring to the thread in general.

I participate in several forums and often there are people who seem to only chime in when they see an opportunity to heckle a fellow member or thread.

Again I apologize to you, I'm new to this forum and should not have been so quick to jump.

Greg

#20 of 27 BillyFeldman

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Posted December 25 2008 - 05:03 PM

No need to apologize. And I'm glad you know I wasn't heckling you and, in fact, just made a general observation until Ernest posted what he did. I simply could not let his post go without comment.


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