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Any Sony "V" Series LCD owners out there?


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#1 of 23 OFFLINE   Ronald Epstein

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Posted December 20 2008 - 08:50 AM

We just bought our Mom the Sony KDL-40V4100 LCD for Christmas.
I was amazed at the quality of the black levels despite the fact that
I had heard LCDs don't produce very good blacks.

There was a defect in the set -- a permanent white "cloud" in the
center of the screen that showed up as soon as you turned the display
on or switched inputs (whenever the screen goes black).

From what I am reading, this is a defect that is caused in shipping
from the styrofoam or any other object pressing against the screen.

In any event, as much as I was pressed to switch to a Panny "Plasma"
I opted instead to go with another Sony "V" series LCD, this time
switching up to a 46" display (instead of the 40).

In any event....

Any "V" series owners in this forum who care to comment on their
displays?

Ronald J Epstein
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#2 of 23 OFFLINE   Michael TLV

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Posted December 20 2008 - 10:32 AM

Greetings

The TV looks better with ambient light on in the room. I have a 46" V3000 series unit from last year.

Custom mode at Warm2 setting closer to accurate. Although warm 1 is okay too. Until someone actually calibrates it for real.

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#3 of 23 OFFLINE   Ronald Epstein

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Posted December 20 2008 - 11:23 AM

Michael,

You happy with LCD picture?

If it were for me I would never have gone down the LCD road. For
my Mom, who is not as picky, I thought this was perfect. Still, I want
her to have a picture she can marvel at and I hope LCD will deliver
just that for her.

Ronald J Epstein
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#4 of 23 OFFLINE   RickER

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Posted December 20 2008 - 01:17 PM

I have an XBR5, and i know you didnt ask about them, but its a sweet TV. I also felt the same as you, Ron about LCD. That is until i saw the Sony...wow.
It blows my Tosh Plasma away!
The only gripe i could have, is on say, movie credits, it has an auto black level. You cant turn it off, but the point of it is to make black, even blacker.
It only kicks in if a a majority of the screen goes really black for more than a few seconds, and you can see it do it.
I am very happy with the Sony LCDs, id own another.

#5 of 23 OFFLINE   Gregg Loewen

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Posted December 20 2008 - 11:46 PM

Ron, i forgot to mention...if Mom views in a darkened environment then installing a back light behind it would help a bunch with the black level. If you dont have an extra back light, send me an email and I will send one to you.

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#6 of 23 OFFLINE   Ronald Epstein

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Posted December 21 2008 - 12:12 AM

Gregg,

Really appreciate the offer. Very kind of you. I think I still have
the backlight that you sent me years ago.

I don't think it will be necessary as most of Mom's viewing
is in the daytime, hence the very difficult decision to pick LCD over
PLASMA.

You have been extremely helpful to me on the phone and to other
members via posts who have questions on which of the two display
formats best suits their needs. Thank you again.

Ronald J Epstein
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#7 of 23 OFFLINE   Michael TLV

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Posted December 21 2008 - 05:13 AM

Greetings

Ron, the set is used for my computer monitor. 46" of computer real estate is nice.

The viewing angles bug me but they are better on the Sonys than some other LCD brands. Fast motion is always an issue too on my set as it is not 120 hz. But the occasional film I play on it and the PS3 gaming has all been just fine.

Remember that on LCD we don't have to worry about things like burn in so parents can watch programming with the black bars on the side all the time without worry. (within reason)

regards
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#8 of 23 OFFLINE   Ronald Epstein

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Posted December 22 2008 - 03:30 AM

I just returned my Sony 41V4100 for a Panny Plasma TH46PZ85U

My Sony arrived defective with a "cloud" or "blotch" located dead center
of the screen that showed up with the power on, anytime the screen went
dark or changed inputs. Upon searching the problem on the Internet I found
out this is most likely damage caused in the shipping process where the
styrofoam or another object is pressing against the screen.

There are also just too many negative reports showing up about sparkling
and clouding issues that have already convinced me not to go with Sony.

Other problems I noticed with the LCD was jaggedness in picture during
fast motion scenes. Being a life-long CRT and RVP owner all these years
it was something that I immediately noticed. Also, as you move to the sides
of the viewing area you lose picture detail. This is not good for the seating
in our room.

I realize there are downfalls to both LCD and PLASMA. The reason I did not
initially want to go PLASMA was that the TV is going in a well-lit area with
many windows. However, I hear the Panasonic reflection screen should be
able to bring those reflections to a tolerable level. I also realize that I have
to go through a 100-hour break-in period which I would not have had to do
with the LCD. Finally, burn-in is always in the back of my mind but from all
I read it really isn't an issue anymore.

Listen, the LCD looked great in the bright room. The picture quality of the
Sony was pretty damn good. It's just once you have a bad experience with
one company, you tend not to want to take a second chance. I am going to
try PLASMA as I know that the worst thing I will have to deal with is reflective
surface, but I should get a far better picture than LCD would have provided.

Ronald J Epstein
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#9 of 23 OFFLINE   Michael TLV

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Posted December 22 2008 - 04:15 AM

Greetings

You still have to be aware of burn in issues. They are real and still occur if people are ignorant about it.

The first 200 to 500 hours are critical for the plasma as they are most prone to permanent damage during that time. Afther that period, the TV becomes more robust to burn in. It's more like just image retention after that and it goes away over time.

I bet some of my clients are happy to hear that burn in is a thing of the past when I arrive to see that they have two bars burned on the left and right sides of their 6 month old TV that won't be going away anytime soon. Why? because the installers and the companies that sold them the stuff never bothered to tell them to be careful and now it's really too late.

The worst of it is that the burn in occurred exactly in that 500 hour window that the manufacturers warn against.

Plasmas have reflections ... but that is hardly a new thing for people. The 27" and the 32" and the 36" TVs that people had for the 20 years prior to this TV all had reflections too. all glass surfaces.

They put the plexiglass on the CRT RPTVs in the first place not for protection purposed, but rather to give them reflections so that people would buy the TV. Posted Image

regards
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#10 of 23 OFFLINE   Ronald Epstein

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Posted December 22 2008 - 05:01 AM

Michael,

This was a tough choice. I talked to Gregg Loewen (LionAV)
extensively about the two formats and he was pointing me
towards LCD to avoid the two biggest pitfalls of PLASMA: reflection
and burn-in.

I mean, this TV is for my Mom's everyday use. Right off the bat
anyone would suggest LCD over PLASMA.

But you know what? If I can sit there and immediately see the flaws
in LCD (not to mention getting a defective Sony right off the bat), then
it's going to be hard to talk me out of going the other direction.

Do you really see a lot of cases of burn-in? I have done
a lot of reading and it seems that burn-ins are almost a thing of the
past with Plasma. Someone really has to be abusing their display to
get burn-ins. However, you are the expert who sees far more displays
in your line of work than I do.

Let me ask you some questions, Michael....

Will this Plasma be good for everyday TV watching including
news channels with tickers?

Is it essential to still break these plasmas in? I downloaded
the burn-in DVD that is being recommended to run for the first
100 hours.

Appreciate your assistance.

Happy Holidays!

Ronald J Epstein
Home Theater Forum co-owner

 

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#11 of 23 OFFLINE   Michael TLV

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Posted December 22 2008 - 05:48 AM

Greetings

If you are an enthusiast, then you know enough to rotate the material that you watch.

but does your mother know enough to do that? Will you always be there to do it for her?

All it takes is a cable box default set to 4:3 to send the TV down the burn in spiral. Not every person that owns a TV hangs out at these sites and knows about this stuff.

My calibration clients that have Plasma sets do not have issues like this because they at least have some knowledge. (These are the guys that find me for calibration work.)

I have another set of clients that come to me via High End Install companies and AV stores that do the install. These people are more of the power players if you can imagine. They have better things to do with their time than read up on this stuff on the web. They are very successful business people with lots of $$$ and they trust their installers / AV store people to be their experts in this area. But guess what happens when the installer or the store people drop the ball because they buy into the hype that manufacturer training tells them or fails to tell them?

Unit after unit of burned in plasma TVs. Some pretty bad after even 1 month of constant 4x3 viewing ... because no one told them. You can bet how mad they become when they find that their so called experts let them down.

I see the damage to the TVs in these homes all the time.

The Burn in disc is a gimmick and a red herring. Just watch responsibly by mixing up the programming and never watch SD material at 4x3 aspect ratio. Zoom it or do some variable stretch.

If a person watches too much programming with stuff like stock tickers and sports scores in one place ... then it will burn in over time.

Mix it up ... be responsible with your viewing choices. Is this really that much to ask for? Is this that hard to do?

regards
Michael @ The Laser Video Experience
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#12 of 23 OFFLINE   Ronald Epstein

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Posted December 22 2008 - 05:54 AM

Michael,

I think I can help with that situation somewhat.

I hope there is a setting on the Panasonic that will zoom in all
4x3 material automatically from channel to channel but leave
the 16x9 stuff in its original aspect ratio.

....and you are saying forget the 100 hour burn-in using the disc?

I will make certain her brightness/contrast/sharpness settings
are reduced as well.

Ronald J Epstein
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#13 of 23 OFFLINE   Michael TLV

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Posted December 22 2008 - 04:54 PM

Greetings

Yes ... forget about the disc. Just use the TV and enjoy it. Be responsible ... and you need not worry.

regards
Michael @ The Laser Video Experience
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#14 of 23 OFFLINE   SherardP

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Posted December 23 2008 - 09:43 PM

I own two of the 40V4100 screens, one mounted in the dining room, the other in my master bedroom, both are great performers, I updated the firmware in both using USB mem stick. Truly an excellent picture, I scored both for under 1k here in Japan.

#15 of 23 OFFLINE   oldac3

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Posted January 21 2009 - 03:41 PM

Michael,
I'm sorry if I missed something you've already iterated, but are you saying to be that careful with plasmas only during that "break-in" period, or are they still subject to burn in after? For example, if one is doing a LOT of 4:3 viewing.
I'm about to make the jump and buy an HDTV. I've gotten spoiled by the great contrast performance of my 35" Sony crt and am nervous about going LCD, but have found many more 46" LCDs that would fit in my cabinet (max 44" width) than plasmas, so I might be going LCD for that reason only. Do you have any faves in the LCD flat panel market? Or, for that matter, do you have any hints in general when it comes to purchasing an LCD? I'd been thinking about the KDL46w4100 or the KDL46z4100 because they are favorably reviewed and would fit in my cabinet.

#16 of 23 OFFLINE   Michael TLV

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Posted January 21 2009 - 04:29 PM

Greetings

Most careful during the first 500 hours ... after that the TV becomes more robust to burn in. Not immune to it though. If you are irresponsible ... you can make it happen.

But generally speaking ... it tends to be image retention after this point and it goes away if you properly exercise the TV. Playing video games for 3 hours and then shutting off the TV is not exercising the TV. You need 3 hours of other random programming to massage out the effects of the video game.

Just be responsible ... I know I am ...

On the LCD side ... Samsungs are the most tweakable of the LCD panels. Then LG ... Then Sony ...then Sharp (only if you don't care about calibration)

regards
Michael @ The Laser Video Experience
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#17 of 23 OFFLINE   CB750

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Posted January 22 2009 - 06:43 AM

Ron,

I noticed that you made your comments about a Sony V series. This series is currently in third or fourth on the Sony pecking order. I purchased a 52" Sony W series last week and am very happy with this set. I have no white cloud or sparkle or motion flow problems you speak of. I decided on the LCD because I didn't want to worry about burn in or glare from the windows in my family room.

I have to say that their may be a problem in the way Sony packs these sets for transportation. When I picked up my set, the Sony Style sales staff placed my set into my vehicle on its side. After a 5 mile ride home when my wife and I lifted it out of our vehicle we could hear styrofoam and the set moving around inside. When I unpacked the set inside of the house I noticed that some of the styrofoam on the top of the set that was supposed to keep the set stable had come loose while the TV was on its side and fell to the bottom of the box. If this was able to happen after brief handling then I suppose it would have been possible for the same piece of styrofoam to be wedged between the screen and the side of the box.

Sony holds the whole two piece box together with two plastic straps which were not that tight. This makes for a easy unpack at home but considering the size and weight of this set a few more straps may be a good idea. No problems occurred with my set but I don't know if any damage may have occurred if had had to move the set around on its side anymore.

#18 of 23 OFFLINE   Ronald Epstein

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Posted January 22 2009 - 06:56 AM

Hi Bill!

The sparkling issues, from what I remember, were mainly present
in the "V" series. For the record, I never saw any sparkle problems.

The white cloud issue was due to the packaging. It was an issue not
widely reported, so I had to do some digging to see why my set had
this white blob that was only present when turned on and during dark
scenes.

So, yes, I agree that Sony does have packaging problems.

I am very happy to read that you picked up a display in the "W" series.
This is obviously a superior model since it has 120Hz.

As I stated, I was impressed with the LCD display, particularly the black
levels. However, I was immediately able to see the slightly stuttering
picture movement during fast-motion scenes. That alone bothered me and
even if the set had not been defective, I would have returned it for a
plasma.

Of course, plasma has its shortcomings as well, but so far I am much
more satisfied with the picture.

Ronald J Epstein
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#19 of 23 OFFLINE   oldac3

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Posted January 22 2009 - 11:23 AM

Michael, I'm not a video game player, so that's would not be an issue for me. But regarding image retention, can watching a lot of 4:3 material cause problems for a plasma? I wondered if the pillars on either side pose problems long term.
Ronald has me reconsidering plasma again, which is why I ask. As usual, it's so hard for a consumer to really test products using software he or she is familiar with. In my midsized, midwest city we only have one non big box A/V store and all they carry is LG, so online info is all I have to help me choose. So, I haven't been able to A/B plasma and LCD sets. Arggh. But, oh well.

#20 of 23 OFFLINE   CB750

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Posted January 23 2009 - 03:26 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldac3
So, I haven't been able to A/B plasma and LCD sets. Arggh. But, oh well.

I have had the opportunity to A/B the Sony and Samsung LCD 52" lines over many months. What it all came down to is I couldn't tell much if any difference in any of the sets. For example the Sony V, W, and XB all looked the same in multiple stores. I purchased Sony over Samsung because I had had good luck with Sony products in the past. I chose the Sony W series over the V series because it was a 120 Hz, and it was only $200 more. I didn't go for the XB series because at the time it was $800 more than the W.

As you know prices can change on a weekley basis and when you decide to buy the deal you saw last week may no longer be available. I noticed that for months Costco featured a version of the 52" W series with an intenet link. You can't find that set anymore at CostCo and they are selling only a 52" V series during the month of January with a $200 off coupon.