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HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: The Dark Knight (Recommended)



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#41 of 214 OFFLINE   Todd smith

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Posted December 01 2008 - 10:22 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Lavender
I haven't seen the Blu-Ray yet, but based on DVDBeaver screencaps (The Dark Knight Blu-ray - Christian Bale Heath Ledger especially the police funeral) the ringing looks terrible, and one of my biggest pet peeves happens to be reviewers who'll downplay or even ignore something like that to support a release they otherwise like. Completely ruins their usefulness as reviewers (minor kudos to the original poster here, at least he mentions the 'edge-enhancement')
The IMAX digital grading, etc. isn't relevant to that little mini-rant, because the original poster doesn't seem to have been aware of it.

Moving on to the issue of halos in the IMAX presentation of 35mm scenes... Can someone explain the logic here? I thought the point of Edge Enhancement was to make things look sharper at a distance (with the drawback of making them look terrible in close-up)
Seems to me that IMAX, with the audience sitting right up close to the screen, is the very last place one would want to use edge-enhancement.

Beyond that, it sounds like, reading the previous posts, we can mostly agree....

- There is DEFINITELY edge-enhancement on this supposedly '5/5 perfect Blu-Ray.' Judge for yourself how severe it is http://www.dvdbeaver....20blu-ray3.jpg

- This edge-enhancement was present in IMAX screenings showing the 35mm footage, as a result of digital-sharpening in a pathetic attempt to render the 35mm scenes more 'IMAX-like'

- This edge-enhancement was not present in non-imax screenings.


Best case scenario, Nolan went insane and after years of refusing to use D.I., he's decided to bring his vision for Dark Knight is the one with all the digital sharpening. So, at least we're seeing the director's intent; digital sharpening and all.

Worst case scenario, Warner went with the digitally sharpened footage because it was simply cheaper (Nolan's intention be damned) than going back to the unmodified 35mm.
Now, letting major artefacts onto my $40* "beyond high definition," "look and sound of perfect" blu-ray disk for the sake of cost-cutting is something I'm always a bit critical of. But, at least when it's a less-popular art-house film or produced by a struggling smaller company, I can appreciate the reasoning. Warner screwed up the transfer on one of their highest grossing movies ever, and already a record-breaking blu-ray, for the sake of 'cost-cutting' and that is just plain inexcusable.

*I'm Australian

I think I see what you are talking about (not even sure what EE looks like), and wish it was not there, but honestly I dont see this taking away from my experience one bit and I consider this a VERY minor issue at best.

#42 of 214 OFFLINE   Nicholas Martin

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Posted December 01 2008 - 12:14 PM

Non-American residents CAN NOT REGISTER for BD Live.

Isn't that great? Sucks to be us (I'm Canadian)

#43 of 214 OFFLINE   Mike Frezon

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Posted December 01 2008 - 01:21 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicholas Martin
Non-American residents CAN NOT REGISTER for BD Live.

Isn't that great? Sucks to be us (I'm Canadian)

The logic of that move escapes me. (And I've heard this complaint in a number of other threads.) Why would you want to deny/anger any part of your customer base?

Seems to me if it's a Region A disc, the BD Live should be open to all members of North America. You're paying $$$ for the feature, after all.

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#44 of 214 OFFLINE   Josh Steinberg

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Posted December 02 2008 - 06:37 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicholas Martin
Non-American residents CAN NOT REGISTER for BD Live.

Isn't that great? Sucks to be us (I'm Canadian)

Can't you just lie and put in another address? I mean, if it's BD-Live, it's not like they're actually mailing anything to the address you put down where you'd need it to be real.

#45 of 214 OFFLINE   Nicholas Martin

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Posted December 02 2008 - 06:44 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Steinberg
Can't you just lie and put in another address? I mean, if it's BD-Live, it's not like they're actually mailing anything to the address you put down where you'd need it to be real.

Only if you can hide the location of your IP address, which identifies what country you're in.

I tried several times to register with U.S. as country of residence and it failed most likely because of that.

#46 of 214 OFFLINE   TonyD

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Posted December 02 2008 - 03:48 PM

anyone think center channel dialog is a bit low.

also i'm in U.S. and can't get the logn live to work.

the ringing isn't noticable to me on my 73" mits.

only problem i had was some black level not being black enough.

Ok just saw my favorite section of the film.

the joker blowing up the hospital.
while he's standing outside of the hospital the debre flying around, this sequence was nearly 3 dimensional, spectcular.

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#47 of 214 OFFLINE   Adam Gregorich

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Posted December 02 2008 - 08:27 PM

Quote:
also i'm in U.S. and can't get the logn live to work.

I'm not sure about WB since this is their first BD Live title, but I know Universal and Paramount don't have their BD Live sites for their titles up and working until the official street date.

#48 of 214 OFFLINE   Sean Laughter

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Posted December 03 2008 - 02:48 AM

Giving a 5/5 Video rating to a disc with as much EE as this has seems pretty ridiculous.

#49 of 214 OFFLINE   Cameron Yee

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Posted December 03 2008 - 03:26 AM

FWIW I have watched the parade scene on a different system - 76" screen from 1.5X screen width and the haloing is still very minor. Can I see it if I stand a foot from the screen? Sure, but even then I still consider it minor. From the seating position it's practically a non-issue.
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#50 of 214 OFFLINE   Dave H

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Posted December 03 2008 - 03:31 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cameron Yee
FWIW I have watched the parade scene on a different system - 76" screen from 1.5X screen width and the haloing is still very minor. Can I see it if I stand a foot from the screen? Sure, but even then I still consider it minor. From the seating position it's practically a non-issue.

I have not seen the disc yet on my 60" display (sitting 8 ft back), so I will reserve judgement, but what you're saying doesn't surpise me. I get the feeling this entire EE issue is just being overstated. As I mentioned in another thread, I saw EE on the 35mm footage at two theatrical viewings (one being IMAX). I think it had something to do with the merging process of the two types of films used to create the movie and not some guy turning the EE dial all the way up out of ignorance for the Blu-ray release. It's all source related and beyond Blu-ray mastering. In fact, given Warner is actually using a high bit rate (24mbps) for the video for a change and given this title was an incredible box office hit, extra care was probably given to this release. Finally, I'd have to believe Nolan signed off on this release especially given he was essentially promoting the IMAX AR for the BD.

#51 of 214 OFFLINE   Ken_McAlinden

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Posted December 03 2008 - 04:46 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Lavender
- There is DEFINITELY edge-enhancement on this supposedly '5/5 perfect Blu-Ray.' Judge for yourself how severe it is http://www.dvdbeaver....20blu-ray3.jpg
My judgment based on the evidence provided: Barely perceptible to non-existent.

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Ken McAlinden
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#52 of 214 OFFLINE   JonZ

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Posted December 03 2008 - 05:18 AM

From the caps I saw at that other forum, the Imax prologue caps showed significant improvement in clarity over the the bluray shots.

Of course we cant judge based on caps posted online, but it was a bit disheartening to see.

#53 of 214 OFFLINE   ManW_TheUncool

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Posted December 03 2008 - 10:04 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonZ
From the caps I saw at that other forum, the Imax prologue caps showed significant improvement in clarity over the the bluray shots.

Of course we cant judge based on caps posted online, but it was a bit disheartening to see.

I haven't checked my copy of the prologue, but maybe it maxed out the bitrate? OR do people think the source was just better for the prologue?

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#54 of 214 OFFLINE   Edwin-S

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Posted December 03 2008 - 10:11 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonZ
From the caps I saw at that other forum, the Imax prologue caps showed significant improvement in clarity over the the bluray shots.

Of course we cant judge based on caps posted online, but it was a bit disheartening to see.

I'm not getting something here. What was the source of the IMAX prologue shots? What was the resolution of the IMAX caps? Still 1920 x1080 like the BD or something higher?

Edit: Found the screen caps you were referring to. The BD shot I looked at looks like it has more contrast than the prologue one. To tell the truth, the BD shot looked more like what I remember from my theatrical viewing of this film, but maybe I'm just remembering it wrong.
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#55 of 214 OFFLINE   Edwin-S

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Posted December 03 2008 - 10:46 AM

Well, I took a look at the caps posted by Xylon at AVS. I'm not sure. Is it a fair comparison to use a close up from the IMAX shot and compare it to a medium close up that is shot under completely different lighting conditions?

Also, I don't quite get the purpose of trying to compare the TDK Blu-ray shot to the shots from THE PRESTIGE or BATMAN BEGINS. All those shots look like they use different lighting. Couldn't that have an effect on the amount of apparent detail that appears on the film? Were all three films shot using the same type of film stock, shutter speeds, etc.? I would think all those factors might account for perceived differences in detail and quality. I can't even qualify as an amateur when it comes to evaluating cinematography and how that might account for differences on different Blu-ray films. Anybody want to enlighten me?
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#56 of 214 OFFLINE   Sean Laughter

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Posted December 04 2008 - 02:17 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Edwin-S
Also, I don't quite get the purpose of trying to compare the TDK Blu-ray shot to the shots from THE PRESTIGE or BATMAN BEGINS. All those shots look like they use different lighting. Couldn't that have an effect on the amount of apparent detail that appears on the film? Were all three films shot using the same type of film stock, shutter speeds, etc.? I would think all those factors might account for perceived differences in detail and quality. I can't even qualify as an amateur when it comes to evaluating cinematography and how that might account for differences on different Blu-ray films. Anybody want to enlighten me?

My impression was that TDK, BB, and Prestige all had the same Director of Photography (who works with Nolan quite a bit I suppose) and tends to use the same film stock when filming (the 35mm bits anyway, obviously using different stock for IMAX). That was the basis for the comparisons I thought.

Still, the BD shots are pretty damning even without the BB and Prestige comparisons.

#57 of 214 OFFLINE   Inspector Hammer!

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Posted December 04 2008 - 11:08 PM

I want to get this so bad I can feel it in my very marrow, alas i'm not allowed to buy any DVD'S or BD's until Christmas because i'll most likely be getting this on Blu as a gift.

I'm glad someone is getting it for me but I want it now dammit lol!

I've made peace with the switching AR's, if it's what Nolan wants than that's how I want it.
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#58 of 214 OFFLINE   Sam Davatchi

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Posted December 05 2008 - 09:32 AM

The IMAX scenes have CG effects. I'm wondering at what resolution they rendered those scenes?

UPDATE: I just found out. They used 8K, 5.6K and 4K for IMAX.

#59 of 214 OFFLINE   Vincent_P

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Posted December 05 2008 - 04:04 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken_McAlinden
My judgment based on the evidence provided: Barely perceptible to non-existent.

Regards,

Gotta say I disagree with this, and other folks who are downplaying the EE and overall "digital", processed look of the 35mm portions of THE DARK KNIGHT. While THE DARK KNIGHT is no GANGS OF NEW YORK, the 35mm material (i.e., what, about 80% of the film?) definitely has an overly digitally processed look to it. The IMAX stuff looks great- even flat-out stunning- but the 35mm material definitely has a noticeable edgy/digital look to it. Other recent Blu-rays of 35mm shot movies like TROPIC THUNDER and THE INCREDIBLE HULK (THE INCREDIBLE HULK having been filmed in 35mm anamorphic, like the 35mm sections of THE DARK KNIGHT) look noticeably better and a lot more organic and film-like than THE DARK KNIGHT. There's no reason I can think of for the 35mm sections of THE DARK KNIGHT not to look as organic and film-like as other recent 35mm-shot movies on Blu-rau like the ones I've mentioned.

THE DARK KNIGHT on Blu-ray is far from terrible, but it's also far from reference aside from the IMAX scenes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cameron Yee
All-in-all it's an excellent video transfer that I expect will be the latest go-to demo disc in home theaters.

For the IMAX scenes? Sure. But as an overall HD presentation of a recent 'blockbuster' on Blu-ray, I'd be much more likely to pull out THE INCREDIBLE HULK.

Vincent

#60 of 214 OFFLINE   Todd smith

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Posted December 05 2008 - 06:16 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincent_P
Gotta say I disagree with this, and other folks who are downplaying the EE and overall "digital", processed look of the 35mm portions of THE DARK KNIGHT. While THE DARK KNIGHT is no GANGS OF NEW YORK, the 35mm material (i.e., what, about 80% of the film?) definitely has an overly digitally processed look to it. The IMAX stuff looks great- even flat-out stunning- but the 35mm material definitely has a noticeable edgy/digital look to it. Other recent Blu-rays of 35mm shot movies like TROPIC THUNDER and THE INCREDIBLE HULK (THE INCREDIBLE HULK having been filmed in 35mm anamorphic, like the 35mm sections of THE DARK KNIGHT) look noticeably better and a lot more organic and film-like than THE DARK KNIGHT. There's no reason I can think of for the 35mm sections of THE DARK KNIGHT not to look as organic and film-like as other recent 35mm-shot movies on Blu-rau like the ones I've mentioned.

THE DARK KNIGHT on Blu-ray is far from terrible, but it's also far from reference aside from the IMAX scenes.



For the IMAX scenes? Sure. But as an overall HD presentation of a recent 'blockbuster' on Blu-ray, I'd be much more likely to pull out THE INCREDIBLE HULK.

Vincent

We get it. Please dont turn this into AVS which has blown this "issue" so far out of proportion it is not even funny. 99% of the people who will watch this will not even know what EE is and will not see it. The remaining 1%.... the vast majority will not let some minor EE here and there take away from their enjoyment of the film at all. The remaining group.....I honestly dont know how these guys enjoy any film as they MUST constantly be looking for issues instead of watching the movie. I feel compassion for this small group as it is obvious they are tortured.


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