Jump to content



Sign up for a free account to remove the pop-up ads

Signing up for an account is fast and free. As a member you can join in the conversation, enter contests and remove the pop-up ads that guests get. Click here to create your free account.

Photo
- - - - -

DVE confusing me with my 2808CI


This topic has been archived. This means that you cannot reply to this topic.
21 replies to this topic

#1 of 22 OFFLINE   AmusingistheDawn

AmusingistheDawn

    Stunt Coordinator



  • 155 posts
  • Join Date: Nov 02 2008

Posted November 24 2008 - 01:17 AM

I bought a new Denon 2808CI, the DVE calibrating video, and an SPL meter. I'm confused at how I actually set the speakers to the correct levels. I would ask a more specific question, but I'm not sure how to really ask it. I read through the primer/faq and I didn't really get it either. Can someone explain the basic procedure for calibrating audio with what I have here? And I mean...explain as in...very, very, very slow Posted Image
Samsung HL61A750  -PS Audio Soloist into Quintet  -Denon 2808CI  -Denon DCD-3520 (Burr-Brown OPA-627opamps & Elna Silmic II capacitors)  -Panasonic DMP-BD35K  -Dish Vip722  -Harmony One  -Klipsch KLF-20's (HT mains)  -Klipsch KLF C-7 (Crites crossover)  -Klipsch S-2's  -Klipsch RW-10 

#2 of 22 OFFLINE   Joseph DeMartino

Joseph DeMartino

    Lead Actor



  • 8,306 posts
  • Join Date: Dec 31 1969
  • Real Name:Joseph DeMartino
  • LocationFlorida

Posted November 24 2008 - 02:05 AM

I'm not sure what you're looking for. Basically you sit in your primary viewing position, set the meter to "slow", hold it ear-high, pointing at the TV, then listen to the test tones and adjust each channel so that you hit the desired number of decibels. ("Reference" is usually quoted as being about 75db if memory serves. A lot of people find this too loud. You should pick the level that feels comfortable for you, then adjust things so that all of your speakers hit the same number from your listening location.)

If you're like most people you'll find that the dialogue gets drowned out by the music and FX channels on a lot of soundtracks when all speakers are set to the same level, and you'll end up goosing the center channel volume a bit to compensate.

Regards,

Joe

#3 of 22 OFFLINE   AmusingistheDawn

AmusingistheDawn

    Stunt Coordinator



  • 155 posts
  • Join Date: Nov 02 2008

Posted November 24 2008 - 02:17 AM

What volume do I set my receiver to? Do I set it to 75 and increase the channel level to reach 75db on the meter? I'm having trouble just getting started. Once I get started it's not a problem, but I don't know what to adjust really.
Samsung HL61A750  -PS Audio Soloist into Quintet  -Denon 2808CI  -Denon DCD-3520 (Burr-Brown OPA-627opamps & Elna Silmic II capacitors)  -Panasonic DMP-BD35K  -Dish Vip722  -Harmony One  -Klipsch KLF-20's (HT mains)  -Klipsch KLF C-7 (Crites crossover)  -Klipsch S-2's  -Klipsch RW-10 

#4 of 22 OFFLINE   David Willow

David Willow

    Screenwriter



  • 2,149 posts
  • Join Date: Jan 23 2004
  • Real Name:Dave
  • LocationMechanicsburg, PA

Posted November 24 2008 - 02:38 AM

IMO, a better idea to set the speaker levels is to use the internal test tones. Normally these are 75db. Use the SPL meter to adjust the trims of each speaker so they measure 75db.

I’m training to run a marathon for the Leukemia & Lymphoma Society, to raise life-saving funds to help those fighting blood cancers. Please help! See details and donation link here.

 

Dolby and DTS Plaques (downloads)
Audyssey Setup Guide


#5 of 22 OFFLINE   chuckg

chuckg

    Supporting Actor



  • 917 posts
  • Join Date: Apr 27 2004

Posted November 24 2008 - 05:27 AM

Gah. 75 dB inside the box is not the same thing as 75 dB outside the box.

What I mean is, if you turn some knob so that your receiver says it is giving you 75 dB you could be hearing a lot more or a lot less in the room with your ears. the sensitivity of the speakers comes into play, here.

What the knob setting is intended to do is make certain that all your speakers are at the same loudness, regardless of what the number is.

SO: turn on your receiver, and turn up the volume knob to set the Left front speaker to something fairly loud. Measure that with your sound meter. Now send that same tone at the same volume knob setting to other speakers, and adjust the individual channel speaker level controls so that the sound meter reads the same value.

Done!
--ignore the man behind the curtain

#6 of 22 OFFLINE   brandonchenry

brandonchenry

    Stunt Coordinator



  • 129 posts
  • Join Date: Jan 06 2008

Posted November 24 2008 - 05:58 AM

I would use the audyssey multiq xt software program in your receiver, in conjunction with the supplied mic that came with it.

This will do a number of things besides just bringing all of your speakers to the proper level. it will also check phase, set time delay, and build a custom algorithm for your room so that your speakers sound better than you could tune by hand. It will also make you sweet spot large enough to cover you whole seating area instead of just one spot.

#7 of 22 OFFLINE   Joseph DeMartino

Joseph DeMartino

    Lead Actor



  • 8,306 posts
  • Join Date: Dec 31 1969
  • Real Name:Joseph DeMartino
  • LocationFlorida

Posted November 24 2008 - 06:09 AM

Quote:
What volume do I set my receiver to? Do I set it to 75 and increase the channel level to reach 75db on the meter?


The initial level should be whatever you find comfortable for listening to a typical movie soundtrack. My receiver doesn't display in decibels, it goes from -20 to 0 to +20. When I calibrated my system, I started at the 0 position and then adjusted each channel up or down as needed to hit 75db, then tweaked them from there.

What calibration does is balance the speakers relative to one another. It isn't a matter of setting an "absolute" level. Once the speakers are calibrated you will be getting the proper amount of sound from each speaker regardless of the total volume level, and that's the point. I don't run my system at one volume level. I turn it down when I'm watching late at night, to avoid annoying the neighbors, and up when I'm watching on a Saturday afternoon when there is a lot more outside noise to contend with. But the balance between speakers remains the same, regardless. (All basically being equal, but slightly favoring the center channel for reasons noted above.)

Regards,

Joe

#8 of 22 OFFLINE   AmusingistheDawn

AmusingistheDawn

    Stunt Coordinator



  • 155 posts
  • Join Date: Nov 02 2008

Posted November 24 2008 - 06:31 AM

You guys are very helpful. My only issue with audyssey is that I don't have the advanced version that comes with more expensive models. Is it still worth using? I think when I go home I'll use it, and then go over it with DVE and adjust accordingly. Should I use the pink noise to calibrate?

I must say that I was overthinking this. If I were to use the test tones from the receiver itself with a SPL meter, it would be just as good of a balance, correct? And balance is all relative anyways right? Is it safe to say that after people calibrate the balance of all speakers, they almost always go back and tweak a little here and there?
Samsung HL61A750  -PS Audio Soloist into Quintet  -Denon 2808CI  -Denon DCD-3520 (Burr-Brown OPA-627opamps & Elna Silmic II capacitors)  -Panasonic DMP-BD35K  -Dish Vip722  -Harmony One  -Klipsch KLF-20's (HT mains)  -Klipsch KLF C-7 (Crites crossover)  -Klipsch S-2's  -Klipsch RW-10 

#9 of 22 OFFLINE   David Willow

David Willow

    Screenwriter



  • 2,149 posts
  • Join Date: Jan 23 2004
  • Real Name:Dave
  • LocationMechanicsburg, PA

Posted November 24 2008 - 09:26 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by AmusingistheDawn
You guys are very helpful. My only issue with audyssey is that I don't have the advanced version that comes with more expensive models. Is it still worth using? I think when I go home I'll use it, and then go over it with DVE and adjust accordingly. Should I use the pink noise to calibrate?

I would try it. The very least it will do is balance your speakers. Make sure you use a tripod. The first measurement should be at your primary listening seat and the other 2 should be within a few feet.

BTW - I'm going to add a step by step guide to the Audyssey thread in the next few days (written by others with the help of Chris from Audyssey).

Quote:
Originally Posted by AmusingistheDawn
I must say that I was overthinking this. If I were to use the test tones from the receiver itself with a SPL meter, it would be just as good of a balance, correct? And balance is all relative anyways right? Is it safe to say that after people calibrate the balance of all speakers, they almost always go back and tweak a little here and there?

It could be better. You already know exactly what the level should be (75db).

I’m training to run a marathon for the Leukemia & Lymphoma Society, to raise life-saving funds to help those fighting blood cancers. Please help! See details and donation link here.

 

Dolby and DTS Plaques (downloads)
Audyssey Setup Guide


#10 of 22 OFFLINE   AmusingistheDawn

AmusingistheDawn

    Stunt Coordinator



  • 155 posts
  • Join Date: Nov 02 2008

Posted November 24 2008 - 11:16 AM

OK. I set it up using Audyssey and it set my speakers to small with the crossover freq of the front speakers to 40hz, the center and surrounds to 60hz, and sub to 80hz. I have a couple of questions. What does this mean? The whole frequency thing has me for a loop. I kinda understand it, the receiver set itself so that the frequency that is below the set value is directed to the subwoofer, right? If so, do these numbers look right?

I also have a question on the setting on my sub. It has two knobs. One for phase 0-180 and one for lowpass 0-120hz. What should these be set at? I ran through the DVE video and the balance that Audyssey set was within .5hz during the pinknoise section. Everything is balanced. I went into the receiver and saw that there was a bit of compensation to make it balanced...making me feel good about Audyssey.

Audyssey is really smart, right? As in...there's no reason to really fuddle with anything once I used it and the speakers are balanced? The manual for the 2808 isn't the easiest read.
Samsung HL61A750  -PS Audio Soloist into Quintet  -Denon 2808CI  -Denon DCD-3520 (Burr-Brown OPA-627opamps & Elna Silmic II capacitors)  -Panasonic DMP-BD35K  -Dish Vip722  -Harmony One  -Klipsch KLF-20's (HT mains)  -Klipsch KLF C-7 (Crites crossover)  -Klipsch S-2's  -Klipsch RW-10 

#11 of 22 OFFLINE   David Willow

David Willow

    Screenwriter



  • 2,149 posts
  • Join Date: Jan 23 2004
  • Real Name:Dave
  • LocationMechanicsburg, PA

Posted November 24 2008 - 03:35 PM

Audyssey is really smart, however it does not get to make all the decisions. Some are left up the AVR. The small setting is good. This means that all bass below a certain frequency will be sent the sub (where it should be).

I suggest you turn the fronts up to 60 or 80. This will send even more to the sub which will take some load off the amp. Not sure about the sub setting - I'm guessing this is the LFE which should be set to 120.

Keep the phase at 0 for now. Later if you feel like playing (after you learn a bit more), you can adjust it. Right now 0 will be fine.

Turn the lowpass as high as it will go. Bypass it if possible.

Take a few days to listen to your system. If you find something you don't like, come back and we can help you tweak it. Otherwise, enjoy Posted Image

I’m training to run a marathon for the Leukemia & Lymphoma Society, to raise life-saving funds to help those fighting blood cancers. Please help! See details and donation link here.

 

Dolby and DTS Plaques (downloads)
Audyssey Setup Guide


#12 of 22 OFFLINE   AmusingistheDawn

AmusingistheDawn

    Stunt Coordinator



  • 155 posts
  • Join Date: Nov 02 2008

Posted November 24 2008 - 11:13 PM

Ok thanks. I had the phase at 180, so I guess I should go back and calibrate again with it at 0? The lowpass was already as high as it can go, no bypass available. I did notice that when I put in a movie...the bass track seemed a little low, and the mains didn't have the bass they usually do. I'm going to set the mains to 80hz when I get home. The wierd thing is, you say to set the LFE to 120hz when Audyssey set it to 80hz. I'll change that as well.

I also don't understand some of the functions on the Denon, it's a little complicated.
Samsung HL61A750  -PS Audio Soloist into Quintet  -Denon 2808CI  -Denon DCD-3520 (Burr-Brown OPA-627opamps & Elna Silmic II capacitors)  -Panasonic DMP-BD35K  -Dish Vip722  -Harmony One  -Klipsch KLF-20's (HT mains)  -Klipsch KLF C-7 (Crites crossover)  -Klipsch S-2's  -Klipsch RW-10 

#13 of 22 OFFLINE   David Willow

David Willow

    Screenwriter



  • 2,149 posts
  • Join Date: Jan 23 2004
  • Real Name:Dave
  • LocationMechanicsburg, PA

Posted November 25 2008 - 01:30 AM

Audyssey didn't set the LFE - that was set by Denon out of the box. Setting it at 120 will match it with the content that is contained in the LFE channel.

You will notice less bass coming from you fronts. It is being redirected to the sub. In most cases, this is what you want.

Give it another try with the phase at 0. Besides the tripod for the mic, to get the most out of Audyssey you have to turn off everything in the room. Make it as quiet as possible. Even the hum of a fan can cause weird results with the bass.

BTW - What speakers and sub are you using?

I’m training to run a marathon for the Leukemia & Lymphoma Society, to raise life-saving funds to help those fighting blood cancers. Please help! See details and donation link here.

 

Dolby and DTS Plaques (downloads)
Audyssey Setup Guide


#14 of 22 OFFLINE   AmusingistheDawn

AmusingistheDawn

    Stunt Coordinator



  • 155 posts
  • Join Date: Nov 02 2008

Posted November 25 2008 - 01:41 AM

I had the room dead silent when I started the test, so I'm sure that isn't an issue. I added the speakers I'm using in my sig to make it easier for people to help. The surrounds are KLH as well. They aren't the best, but good enough for now. The mains I have are huge floor standing speakers with 12" woofers, one passive. Again...not the best, but they work for now. The sub is pretty nice though, probably the best speaker in the setup right now (klipsch RW-10) I'll try everything when I get home again...see how it goes. Meanwhile...i'll be looking for speakers Posted Image
Samsung HL61A750  -PS Audio Soloist into Quintet  -Denon 2808CI  -Denon DCD-3520 (Burr-Brown OPA-627opamps & Elna Silmic II capacitors)  -Panasonic DMP-BD35K  -Dish Vip722  -Harmony One  -Klipsch KLF-20's (HT mains)  -Klipsch KLF C-7 (Crites crossover)  -Klipsch S-2's  -Klipsch RW-10 

#15 of 22 OFFLINE   AmusingistheDawn

AmusingistheDawn

    Stunt Coordinator



  • 155 posts
  • Join Date: Nov 02 2008

Posted November 26 2008 - 11:08 AM

Ok. I keep finding more settings and more stuff to learn. The RESTORER function on the 2808...is this something that should always be off, unless you are playing a wma/mp3 type of compressed audio file? It's hard to decipher which setting would be used even if you did use it. Anyways...

I don't like Audyssey anymore. I did it again and it set my front speakers to large this time. It also keeps setting the crossover to 40hz. Well...I cranked up volume and found that it absolutely sounds better with the front speakers at 80hz, and the front speakers set to small.

I also don't know what to listen to stereo music in. There are so many different choices. I like listening in DIRECT mode, but there is no way to use audyssey when in direct.

So it looks like I'll be using my SPL meter and adjust the internal levels via the DVE pink noise. I just don't understand which pink noise I should be using. Would it be easier to use the internal tones of the 2808?
Samsung HL61A750  -PS Audio Soloist into Quintet  -Denon 2808CI  -Denon DCD-3520 (Burr-Brown OPA-627opamps & Elna Silmic II capacitors)  -Panasonic DMP-BD35K  -Dish Vip722  -Harmony One  -Klipsch KLF-20's (HT mains)  -Klipsch KLF C-7 (Crites crossover)  -Klipsch S-2's  -Klipsch RW-10 

#16 of 22 OFFLINE   David Willow

David Willow

    Screenwriter



  • 2,149 posts
  • Join Date: Jan 23 2004
  • Real Name:Dave
  • LocationMechanicsburg, PA

Posted November 26 2008 - 11:44 AM

Denon set you crossover based on Audyssey readings in your room. Setting them to 80hz is fine. Audyssey also balanced your speakers so you shouldn't have to do it with the SPL meter. Even if you turn Audyssey off, the level will remain correct.

I’m training to run a marathon for the Leukemia & Lymphoma Society, to raise life-saving funds to help those fighting blood cancers. Please help! See details and donation link here.

 

Dolby and DTS Plaques (downloads)
Audyssey Setup Guide


#17 of 22 OFFLINE   AmusingistheDawn

AmusingistheDawn

    Stunt Coordinator



  • 155 posts
  • Join Date: Nov 02 2008

Posted November 26 2008 - 12:01 PM

Are you sure? Either way, I have a lot of questions about playback modes for this AVR. I'm going to start another thread about that...as far as calibrating...I checked it with the meter and they are balanced. As far as speaker setting goes...I need to pop in a DVD to see if it sounds good right? Because I listen to music in pure direct mode. When I changed the frequency from 40-80 and also the setting from large to small it sounded better listening to music, but that doesnt mean it will sound better in standard mode watching movies will it?

I also find it wierd that the bass becomes incredibly distant when i turn the audyssey eq ON. It sounds good, but as far as a whole...I prefer it off. Another odd thing is, the first time I set it up, it set all speakers to small. I placed the mic in about the same spots this time, and it set the mains to large. What gives???
Samsung HL61A750  -PS Audio Soloist into Quintet  -Denon 2808CI  -Denon DCD-3520 (Burr-Brown OPA-627opamps & Elna Silmic II capacitors)  -Panasonic DMP-BD35K  -Dish Vip722  -Harmony One  -Klipsch KLF-20's (HT mains)  -Klipsch KLF C-7 (Crites crossover)  -Klipsch S-2's  -Klipsch RW-10 

#18 of 22 OFFLINE   David Willow

David Willow

    Screenwriter



  • 2,149 posts
  • Join Date: Jan 23 2004
  • Real Name:Dave
  • LocationMechanicsburg, PA

Posted November 26 2008 - 12:42 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Willow

BTW - I'm going to add a step by step guide to the Audyssey thread in the next few days (written by others with the help of Chris from Audyssey).

As promised....

http://www.hometheat....ml#post3469702

I’m training to run a marathon for the Leukemia & Lymphoma Society, to raise life-saving funds to help those fighting blood cancers. Please help! See details and donation link here.

 

Dolby and DTS Plaques (downloads)
Audyssey Setup Guide


#19 of 22 OFFLINE   AmusingistheDawn

AmusingistheDawn

    Stunt Coordinator



  • 155 posts
  • Join Date: Nov 02 2008

Posted November 26 2008 - 01:09 PM

That was very helpful. THANKS! I still would prefer to listen to music in my denon's PURE DIRECT mode. It just seems cleaner and that healthy kind of raw that the artist wants you to hear. As far as movies though...sounds good!
Samsung HL61A750  -PS Audio Soloist into Quintet  -Denon 2808CI  -Denon DCD-3520 (Burr-Brown OPA-627opamps & Elna Silmic II capacitors)  -Panasonic DMP-BD35K  -Dish Vip722  -Harmony One  -Klipsch KLF-20's (HT mains)  -Klipsch KLF C-7 (Crites crossover)  -Klipsch S-2's  -Klipsch RW-10 

#20 of 22 OFFLINE   David Willow

David Willow

    Screenwriter



  • 2,149 posts
  • Join Date: Jan 23 2004
  • Real Name:Dave
  • LocationMechanicsburg, PA

Posted November 26 2008 - 01:33 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by AmusingistheDawn
That was very helpful. THANKS! I still would prefer to listen to music in my denon's PURE DIRECT mode. It just seems cleaner and that healthy kind of raw that the artist wants you to hear. As far as movies though...sounds good!

I don't disagree. Many times I listen to music in Onkyo's Pure Audio mode. This completely bypasses everything (including Audyssee and bass management). It is like listening to an old stereo with only the mains active. Really lets my Axioms stretch their legs. Posted Image

I’m training to run a marathon for the Leukemia & Lymphoma Society, to raise life-saving funds to help those fighting blood cancers. Please help! See details and donation link here.

 

Dolby and DTS Plaques (downloads)
Audyssey Setup Guide



Back to Beginners, General Questions & HTiB (Home Theater in a Box)



Forum Nav Content I Follow