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Need more power-Harman Audio AVR347???


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8 replies to this topic

#1 of 9 OFFLINE   bspgmgolf

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Posted November 14 2008 - 02:06 AM

I'm relatively new to home the home theater world. I'm currently feeling that my Harman AVR 347 is not enough for my speakers. Let's say I'm watching a football game or CSI: I have to turn the power up to "level -19 or -20" to have a good out of sound. I just feel that I'm barely pushing my speakers for what I've got


Can you help me out with Specs???
385W: 55 watts x 7 (All channels operating at full-rated power), THD <0.07%, 20Hz - 20kHz into 8 ohms- THIS IS WHERE I THINK I'M...TOO WEAK


665W: 95 watts x 7, THD <0.07%, @1kHz into 8ohms
THIS IS WHAT I' LOOKING FOR!!! IS THERE A SETTING ON THE AVR

Equipment:
65 Inch-LG Plasma
Harman Kardon -AVR-347
Klipsch RF-82
Kipsch RC-62
Klipsch RS-42 (surrond speakers)
Klipsch RW-12d (340 RMS)
Monster Cable through and through
Sony Blue Ray
Digital Source-Att Uverse

#2 of 9 OFFLINE   Buckethead78

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Posted November 14 2008 - 05:21 AM

HK's are "underrated" compared to most other brands. HK uses all channels running to determine watts, while most others use 1 or 2 channels to determine power. You will be very surprised if you browse through some home audio magazines to see that many manufacturers claim 100 x 7 or some nonsense, and really push 40-50 watts through all 7 channels.

There is no setting on the receiver to increase the output power. You might want to check you speaker levels in the settings, to make sure that they are not set too low. Also, check that your speakers are not "out of phase" meaning one or more speakers have the positive / negative speaker wires backwards. This sometimes may cause speakers to "cancel each other out" reducing bass dramatically and lowering perceived volume levels.

There are a lot of members on here with a lot more knowledge than me, but as far as I know, if those don't work you would probably have to add an external amp.

#3 of 9 OFFLINE   bspgmgolf

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Posted November 14 2008 - 06:41 AM

Thanks for the info. I've already increased the setting on each channel from 0 to a 7 or 8. (I don't believe in maxing out the channel setting to 10). It helped but I still need more.

Realistically, do I have to much speaker vs receiver? What happened if moved up to a Denon AVR 888, but it about the same watt per channel vs the H/K.

Best,
Brandon

#4 of 9 OFFLINE   David Willow

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Posted November 14 2008 - 09:12 AM

HK's are some of the best AVRs on the market. Unless your space is extremely large, I doubt the power is your problem (especially with the Klispsch).

Have you calibrated your speakers with and SPL meter? The HK magic mic thingy on your remote is not very good (at least mine wasn't a few years ago).

How does it sound with other sources (DVD)? TV shows do not always have the best sound.

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#5 of 9 OFFLINE   JohnRice

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Posted November 14 2008 - 03:09 PM

Brandon, there is nothing wrong with what you have. Unfortunately you don't understand the specs and believe they mean things they don't. If you are getting decent output at -20, you still have 20dB to go up, which is an enormous amount.

What you are complaining about is not power, it is gain. One has absolutely nothing to do with the other. By increasing the levels from 0 to 7 or 8, you are increasing the gain. If you believe that isn't enough, take it all the way up. There is nothing to "believe in" regarding that. Beyond that, take the advice of calibrating the system with a calibration disc and sound pressure level meter. It's a much better investment than another receiver that won't gain you anything.

In the old days, people used to show off how they could rattle the house by only turning up the volume dial 1/4 of the way. They thought that meant the system was powerful. Then, they'd get a high quality unit and find they had to turn it up 3/4 of the way to rattle the house. As often as not they'd take it back thinking they'd been ripped off. You're falling for the same misconception.

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#6 of 9 OFFLINE   bspgmgolf

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Posted November 15 2008 - 04:13 AM

David,
With my Sony Blue Ray it sounds the same as my Uverse output. The funny thing is when I hook up my cheapie Phillips old school DVD player the system flat out rocks. You can tell the output of the Phillips is better/louder vs the blue ray.


John,
Your food for thought is correct. I just don't want to blow out my receiver.

When I crank it down to 16-17 dbs, were good to go, but how long can that receiver run at that rate. Today I've got alot of football to much.

I'm going to try the H/K mic (because it's free) and then maybe a sound disc.

With the system I've got, will I be running at 5.1?

#7 of 9 OFFLINE   David Willow

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Posted November 15 2008 - 08:25 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by bspgmgolf
David,
With my Sony Blue Ray it sounds the same as my Uverse output. The funny thing is when I hook up my cheapie Phillips old school DVD player the system flat out rocks. You can tell the output of the Phillips is better/louder vs the blue ray.


If I recall correctly, my HK would have a different calibration for each DSP. I would have to calibrate DTS, Dolby, Stereo, and everything else separately. Maybe your were listing to something different with your DVD (one that is calibrated differently)? How is your Blu-Ray connected to your HK?

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#8 of 9 OFFLINE   JohnRice

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Posted November 15 2008 - 11:02 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by bspgmgolf
John,
Your food for thought is correct. I just don't want to blow out my receiver.

When I crank it down to 16-17 dbs, were good to go, but how long can that receiver run at that rate.
Those numbers are completely arbitrary. If it was a THX model, the "reference" playback level once it was calibrated would be "0". It doesn't mean anything, except that calibrated THX receivers reach "reference" level at 0dB. That doesn't mean you would be overdriving it. My secondary system is run at around -20 for reasonable DVD playback levels. DVDs with low volume can be as high as -14. That is just it.

Klipsch makes reasonably high sensitivity speakers, so I doubt you are in any danger. Besides, doubling your power won't make much difference. It takes more than that.

The Hybrid System

The Music Part: Emotiva XSP-1, Thiel CS 3.6, Emotiva XPA-2, Marantz SA8004, Emotiva ERC-3, SVS PB-12 Plus 2

The Surround Part: Sherbourn PT-7030, Thiel SCS3, Emotiva XPA-5, Polk & Emotiva Surrounds.


#9 of 9 OFFLINE   bspgmgolf

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Posted November 17 2008 - 11:41 AM

David and John,
Thanks for the advice. I've come to the conclusion that I need to give my H/K the benefit of doubt and crank it up.

I ran the receiver with no problem all day yesterday during football.

Thanks for the help,
Brandon





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