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Fox Region B Titles show incorrect running time on the back


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#1 of 18 martymc80s

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Posted November 04 2008 - 08:55 PM

Just wanted to point out that on 2 Region B Blu-Ray Fox releases I have (Die Hard & Independence Day), the running times are incorrect.

On the back of the Region B cases, they've used the running times for the Region 2 (Pal Speed-up) DVD versions.

Checking the BBFC and IMDB website, I can confirm that the running time on the discs is correct with theatrical release.

This means we are getting the correct cut.

Die Hard (Region B/Fox)

The packaging states the running time of the movie is 127 mins.
The running time on the disc is 132 mins.

Independence Day (Region B/Fox)

The packaging states the running time of the movie is 138 mins.
The running time on the disc is 144 mins.

The problem is, whoever makes the UK artwork, has ported over the Region 2 DVD information, where the running time is shorter.

It makes you wonder what else they got wrong? Posted Image

Could anyone with any insider knowledge explain to me just how the process works between distributors/studios and their overseas offices?

Does Fox send the UK a transfer of the movie, then the UK creates its own specific artwork?

Any info would be appreciated.

Thanks. Posted Image

EDIT:

FYI - Having just been to Fox.co.uk and viewed their specifications, it seems that this is a problem with ALL Region B Blu-Ray discs from Fox.

#2 of 18 Sam Davatchi

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Posted November 05 2008 - 05:59 AM

I guess the people in charge don't know about the PAL speedup! Posted Image (Or simply don't know their job!)

#3 of 18 Cees Alons

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Posted November 05 2008 - 06:53 AM

Quote:
I guess the people in charge don't know about the PAL speedup!
I think, basically they don't understand the underlying process (which groups them under your second assumption).

Above 480i there is no PAL or NTSC anymore, so the PAL "speedup" no longer exists on BD (and previously HD DVD).


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#4 of 18 ChristopherDAC

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Posted November 05 2008 - 06:59 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cees Alons
Above 480i there is no PAL or NTSC anymore, so the PAL "speedup" no longer exists on BD (and previously HD DVD).
Right, & either they assume that there still is the speedup, or they never knew it was there in the first place & assumed that the running times they had for PAL versions of films were the true ones. Either way they haven't noticed the change.

#5 of 18 Josh Steinberg

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Posted November 05 2008 - 08:16 AM

From my experience, the people who do the packaging artwork are generally provided with a list of copy, and simply put in whatever they're told; in other words, the person who has to photoshop in the running time has no idea how long or short the film actually is. Whoever said that they probably just transferred the package copy from the previous DVD version is almost certainly dead-on.

#6 of 18 atwozed

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Posted January 13 2009 - 05:04 PM

That is why most region B people what to buy region A,the rest you know
why it can be a hassle....

#7 of 18 MatthewLouwrens

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Posted January 13 2009 - 07:36 PM

Quote:
Above 480i there is no PAL or NTSC anymore, so the PAL "speedup" no longer exists on BD (and previously HD DVD).
Above 480i, there is still 576i, which is PAL.

But above 576i there is no PAL or NTSC anymore. And Yay for losing the PAL speed-up. It normally didn't bother me, but every now and then there would be a film where I knew the soundtrack really well, and then the change in pitch would really irritate.

Now we just need American TVs and Blu-Ray players to accomodate 25fps and then we'll all be even.
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#8 of 18 Hank E

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Posted January 14 2009 - 04:49 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by MatthewLouwrens
Above 480i, there is still 576i, which is PAL.

But above 576i there is no PAL or NTSC anymore. And Yay for losing the PAL speed-up. It normally didn't bother me, but every now and then there would be a film where I knew the soundtrack really well, and then the change in pitch would really irritate.

Now we just need American TVs and Blu-Ray players to accomodate 25fps and then we'll all be even.

Can you explain this a little more? When I first read that PAL/ NTSC was no longer an issue with Blu-ray I was thrilled. But I got a few titles from region B and was really disappointed that they still suffer from the "speed-up" because of the different fps rate.

#9 of 18 Bruce Morrison

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Posted January 14 2009 - 10:42 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank E
Can you explain this a little more? When I first read that PAL/ NTSC was no longer an issue with Blu-ray I was thrilled. But I got a few titles from region B and was really disappointed that they still suffer from the "speed-up" because of the different fps rate.

What titles were they? The vast majority of Region B BDs are encoded at 24 fps and therefore don't have any speed-up. Although I have heard of at least one BD ('The Good Shepherd') released by a company in the Netherlands that apparently is just an upscaled PAL DVD so it still has the speed-up.

I suppose this could also happen on some TV material that was originally shot on PAL video.
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#10 of 18 Robert Crawford

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Posted January 14 2009 - 11:06 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Morrison
What titles were they? The vast majority of Region B BDs are encoded at 24 fps and therefore don't have any speed-up. Although I have heard of at least one BD ('The Good Shepherd') released by a company in the Netherlands that apparently is just an upscaled PAL DVD so it still has the speed-up.

I suppose this could also happen on some TV material that was originally shot on PAL video.
That's also been my understanding of this issue.





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#11 of 18 Brian Borst

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Posted January 15 2009 - 07:52 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Morrison
What titles were they? The vast majority of Region B BDs are encoded at 24 fps and therefore don't have any speed-up. Although I have heard of at least one BD ('The Good Shepherd') released by a company in the Netherlands that apparently is just an upscaled PAL DVD so it still has the speed-up.

I suppose this could also happen on some TV material that was originally shot on PAL video.

But that's a small company. Big companies like Fox don't do that. But with material that was shot on PAL video you wouldn't have the speed-up, I think, it's already in 25 fps.
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#12 of 18 MatthewLouwrens

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Posted January 15 2009 - 11:25 AM

Quote:
Can you explain this a little more?
I was talking about television programs that were shot in PAL countries at 25fps. I understand that American HDTV and BD players often don't allow for 25fps. What this means is that some television shows shot in 25fps (I know Torchwood is one) were converted to 30fps for the BD, so that they can use the same master for all regions.
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#13 of 18 Hank E

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Posted January 16 2009 - 03:33 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Morrison
What titles were they? The vast majority of Region B BDs are encoded at 24 fps and therefore don't have any speed-up. Although I have heard of at least one BD ('The Good Shepherd') released by a company in the Netherlands that apparently is just an upscaled PAL DVD so it still has the speed-up.

I suppose this could also happen on some TV material that was originally shot on PAL video.

It was "The Fog" released by Studio Canal. I also have "Terminator 2" and "Close Encounters" but I didn't even bother to open them because I thought they'd be the same way.

#14 of 18 Bruce Morrison

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Posted January 16 2009 - 04:15 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank E
It was "The Fog" released by Studio Canal. I also have "Terminator 2" and "Close Encounters" but I didn't even bother to open them because I thought they'd be the same way.

I'd be very surprised if 'Close Encounters' had any problems, as I think Sony have worldwide Blu-ray rights on that title, and they certainly wouldn't release any title in such a butchered way.

If the French BD edition of 'The Fog' (and possibly 'Terminator 2') is effectively an upscaled PAL DVD, that's quite appalling. In the UK, both these titles have been released by Optimum in region-free editions and, as far as I know, they are supposed to be OK (although I don't have either of them).
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#15 of 18 Hank E

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Posted January 16 2009 - 06:52 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Morrison
I'd be very surprised if 'Close Encounters' had any problems, as I think Sony have worldwide Blu-ray rights on that title, and they certainly wouldn't release any title in such a butchered way.

If the French BD edition of 'The Fog' (and possibly 'Terminator 2') is effectively an upscaled PAL DVD, that's quite appalling. In the UK, both these titles have been released by Optimum in region-free editions and, as far as I know, they are supposed to be OK (although I don't have either of them).

Mine is from the UK, it is by Optimum Home Entertainment (I was looking at a different logo). I'll check the other 2 titles, but The Fog definitely has the speed-up problem. I've never seen anybody mention any issues with other region Blu-rays, that's why I brought it up. There are some more titles I'd like to get, but I'm worried that anything from "PAL countries" is going to have the same problem. If they're using PAL masters for all their movie transfers, doesn't it mean that everything will still be sped up, since the frame rate is different? (This is what I was originally asking about because I don't fully understand the mastering process).

#16 of 18 Bruce Morrison

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Posted January 16 2009 - 10:28 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank E
Mine is from the UK, it is by Optimum Home Entertainment (I was looking at a different logo). I'll check the other 2 titles, but The Fog definitely has the speed-up problem. I've never seen anybody mention any issues with other region Blu-rays, that's why I brought it up. There are some more titles I'd like to get, but I'm worried that anything from "PAL countries" is going to have the same problem. If they're using PAL masters for all their movie transfers, doesn't it mean that everything will still be sped up, since the frame rate is different? (This is what I was originally asking about because I don't fully understand the mastering process).

No your general worries are unfounded. For a "normal" Blu-ray release, a movie first has to be re-mastered in High Definition from the original negative, which by definition takes any consideration of PAL/NTSC out of the equation. The BD will then be encoded at a frame rate of 24 fps, regardless of territory.

Rather than doing this, it sounds as if Optimum have used the same Studio Canal upscaled PAL masters as would presumably have been used for the equivalent French BD releases. I'm quite surprised that Optimum have released BDs in this way, as I thought they were supposed to be quite a reputable organisation. Anyway, I will make sure I don't buy any of their BDs!

But as I say, you don't need to worry generally about buying BDs from the UK or elsewhere in Europe. You can safely assume that anything released on BD by one of the major Hollywoood studios will have been done properly. The same is true for MOST independent releasing companies - just not Optimum it seems!

It would be useful to know whether this appears to be a general issue with Optimum BDs, so I'd be interested to hear what you find when checking your Terminator 2 disc. I don't believe you'll find the problem with Close Encounters as that is a Sony release, right?
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#17 of 18 Hank E

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Posted January 20 2009 - 07:14 AM

Well, it looks like I was wrong. I did a side by side comparison of T2 with my region 1 DVD and it was fine. But when I checked The Fog it was in sync as well so I was obviously wrong about the PAL thing being an issue. But there is a difference in the audio with the Blu-ray, that's why I thought it was a speed-up issue. The pitch is a little higher, which makes it sound like it's sped-up. Any idea what would cause that?

#18 of 18 Bruce Morrison

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Posted January 20 2009 - 09:51 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank E
Well, it looks like I was wrong. I did a side by side comparison of T2 with my region 1 DVD and it was fine. But when I checked The Fog it was in sync as well so I was obviously wrong about the PAL thing being an issue. But there is a difference in the audio with the Blu-ray, that's why I thought it was a speed-up issue. The pitch is a little higher, which makes it sound like it's sped-up. Any idea what would cause that?

Hmmm... it sounds almost as if they might have taken a PAL source for the soundtrack and time-compressed it so that it runs at the correct speed. This can be done digitally without changing the pitch. But I have absolutely no idea why anything like that would have been done in this case. It sounds very odd.
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