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NEW Panasonic 3D Technology: This should become the standard!


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#1 of 26 OFFLINE   Ronald Epstein

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Posted November 03 2008 - 09:30 PM

A few of us recently had the opportunity to take a look at new
3D technology now being introduced from Panasonic. This is the
same 3D technology that has been shown off at a Japanese trade show.

Now mind you, there is a lot of different 3D technology out there
from a handful of companies trying to vie for making theirs the
"standard" that gets adopted from the industry. I have seen a lot
of these 3D demonstrations at CEDIA this year, and honestly, all of
them have been rather unimpressive when you put them up against
the technology that Panasonic has rolled out.

The problem with much of the 3D that I have seen is that overall
picture quality is degraded when viewing it through needed eyewear.
Though all the technologies being introduced from companies such
as Daylight and Mitsubishi are a huge step up from what you see
through the cardboard glasses that come with a DVD/Blu-ray title,
the end result seems to always be the same --- overall picture quality
is compromised.

Panasonic has introduced technology that gives outstanding 3D
response with absolutely no degradation to the high definition picture.
Imagine watching a stunningly crisp and detailed HD presentation on
a 103" plasma screen with action jumping right off the screen with no sacrifice in quality.

I was with a handful of individuals who witnessed the demonstration
alongside me and were as equally blown away with what we saw. They
will be offering their comments in this thread.

For the moment, this is the technology to beat. It is my hope that
the studios take notice of what Panasonic is offering and quickly adopt
it as a standard and begin supporting a rollout so that we may all be
enjoying stunning 3D in our homes in the near future.

 

Ronald J Epstein
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#2 of 26 OFFLINE   Michael Cucka

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Posted November 03 2008 - 11:46 PM

Ron understates how we were all blown away with this presentation Posted Image

Although mostly a "proof of concept" demonstration, the clarity, realism, and vividness of the material was breathtaking - my particular favorite being the brilliance of the Beijing Olympics opening ceremonies.

Sourced from a modified Blu-ray player, and presented on what can only be described as a jaw-dropping 103in Panasonic plasma, even my off-axis experience was nothing short of stunning.

Maybe cost-wise, this technology is not ready for prime time. But one could easily conclude that this 3D technology should be developed further for the masses and a standard by which all others should be compared.

This was not gimmicky "coming-at-you" nonsense, folks. This was an immersive, realistic experience with amazing potential.

Shame that 103in plasma won't fit in my bedroom... Posted Image
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#3 of 26 OFFLINE   RolandL

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Posted November 04 2008 - 12:54 AM

Looks like its finnaly going to happen - 1080p 3-D. Below are a few web sites that list 3-D movies that have been released and will be released in the future. If this is only for Blu-ray I guess we will hear complaints for those that want it on standard DVD's.

The Illustrated 3D Movie List

MarketSaw - 3D Movies and Technology: UPDATED CONSTANTLY: List of Upcoming 3D Movies !

Roland Lataille
Cinerama web site

 


#4 of 26 OFFLINE   Cameron Yee

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Posted November 04 2008 - 01:40 AM

Like Ron I was largely unimpressed with 3D technology until seeing Panasonic's demo. What an experience to see the drummers from the Beijing Olympics Opening Ceremony extending out to the horizon in layers! The person behind me exclaimed what all of us had on our minds at the moment: "It's like we're there!" It was an amazing piece of technology that I hope sees forward motion.
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#5 of 26 OFFLINE   Paul Hillenbrand

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Posted November 04 2008 - 02:00 AM

It would be extremely helpful to interested readers of the 3D subject of this thread, if someone who has experienced the Panasonic 3D, would please explain or describe what paraphernalia was needed (if any?), to view the pristine picture in 3D.Posted ImagePosted Image

Paul
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#6 of 26 OFFLINE   Cameron Yee

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Posted November 04 2008 - 02:19 AM

Here's my basic understanding. I'm sure the more tech knowledgeable will embellish or clarify (or correct!).

The Blu-Ray player was modified to output dual streams of 60 Hz video into a display that accepts 120 Hz. IR transmitters on top of the display transmitted signals to the glasses we were wearing, which had some kind of shutter built in (very unnoticeable - I thought they were just passive devices).

And of course two working eyeballs. Posted Image
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#7 of 26 OFFLINE   Ronald Epstein

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Posted November 04 2008 - 02:56 AM

With the same basic understanding as Cameron, I can second
what he just wrote.

The beauty of this technology is that for some individuals with
newer displays, the cost of upgrading to be " PANA 3D ready"
is minimal.

First, you need a display capable of doing 120mhz as Cameron
described above. Many new displays including the new Panny
AE3000 projector have this capability.

What Panasonic needs to do is to provide IR outputs to their
BD players to transmit the needed signal to the glasses which
cost about $100 at present but will probably be much lower at
the time of consumer introduction.

 

Ronald J Epstein
Home Theater Forum co-owner

 

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#8 of 26 OFFLINE   Paul Hillenbrand

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Posted November 04 2008 - 03:22 AM

Thanks guys!Posted Image

This really sounds amazing! I can imagine that the glasses don't need to be polarized which, like sunglasses, would usually dim the observable brightness of the picture. Instead they could have clear shutter lenses, and with 120Hz, each eye would be watching 1080P 60Hz consecutively, comparing it to watching the highest standard 60Hz/1080P television with both eyes!Posted ImagePosted ImagePosted ImagePosted Image

Damn this recession! Posted Image

"Polar Express 3D" would be as good or could be better (clearer) than IMAX 3D, depending if you watched it in a theater with polarised or with shutter
glasses!

We need this now - NOW, to take us away from the everyday stresses!.Posted Image

Paul
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BD 3D, BD, HD DVD, DVD collection


#9 of 26 OFFLINE   Patrick Sun

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Posted November 04 2008 - 04:17 AM

Don't think there isn't some dimness in the light output of the plasma's screen when viewed through the glasses, because there is (I took my glasses off and back on, just to see what the difference was in brightness). The brightness difference isn't as jarring as watching a DLP RealD theatrical 3D projection with their RealD polarized glasses, but it's still there, nonetheless.

The demo we saw featured footage from:

Beijing Olympics Opening Ceremony - simply awe-inspiring

Meet the Robinsons - good use of 3D given the CGI-roots of the material

Clique Girlz - subject wasn't my cup of tea, but the material made for lively 3D viewing

Grand Canyon - just a splendid use of 3D to make you feel like you are there.

and some other bits that I can't recall, except that it all looked fantastic.

This 3D Blu-ray demo was one of the more impressive demo's that I ever experienced on a display (though I don't think I'll ever be able to afford an 103" plasma, even if it is just for the bedroom... )
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#10 of 26 OFFLINE   Bob_L

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Posted November 04 2008 - 05:26 AM

As a sidebar:

Two years ago, I attended all the screenings of the World 3D Film Festival here in Los Angeles that included about 35 features from the 1951-53 period of Big Hollywood 3D productions and a few newer examples, too.

While most of the films included the inevitable eyepoke, comin' atcha stunts that audiences seemed to expect, what was FAR more striking was the sense of immediacy that the 3D added. As a viewer, I connected with the performances more than ever because I felt like a part of the scene, rather than a distant observer. Dialogue scenes, in particular, would often give me a subconscious sense that I was in the presence of the performers.

In short, 3D can be MUCH more than a gimmick when it is used as an expressive dramatic tool, rather than a theme park trick.

I truly envy those who were able to see this demo at Panny. I can only imagine that Zhang Yimou's genius Olympics ceremonies were incomparable in 3D. They were breathtaking in 2D HD.

#11 of 26 OFFLINE   RolandL

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Posted November 04 2008 - 05:46 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronald Epstein
With the same basic understanding as Cameron, I can second
what he just wrote.

The beauty of this technology is that for some individuals with
newer displays, the cost of upgrading to be " PANA 3D ready"
is minimal..

Are you saying the Mitsubishi and Samsung 120hz "3-D ready" rear projection TV's will work with these new Panasonic BD players?

Quote:
First, you need a display capable of doing 120mhz as Cameron
described above. Many new displays including the new Panny
AE3000 projector have this capability.

Did the Panasonic rep's say it would work with the AE3000?

Quote:
What Panasonic needs to do is to provide IR outputs to their
BD players to transmit the needed signal to the glasses which
cost about $100 at present but will probably be much lower at
the time of consumer introduction.

So you can use the 3-d glasses that are mentioned on the web site below?

eDimensional 3D Glasses and Innovative PC Gaming Accessories

Roland Lataille
Cinerama web site

 


#12 of 26 OFFLINE   ManW_TheUncool

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Posted November 04 2008 - 10:23 AM

Hmmm... Wouldn't Bluetooth work well for this too, not just IR? Maybe it will arrive on the PS3 in a future v3.x of the software update, if this tech gets moving quickly enough. Posted Image Certainly can't imagine Sony not wanting to put this kind of tech into their flagship multimedia console (both for future gaming and for 3D on Bluray)...

_Man_
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#13 of 26 OFFLINE   Adam Gregorich

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Posted November 04 2008 - 05:08 PM

Quote:
Are you saying the Mitsubishi and Samsung 120hz "3-D ready" rear projection TV's will work with these new Panasonic BD players?

This was a single modifed BD player, not a shipping product. I'm sure Panasonic will be working with the BDA to try and incorporate this into the specs, and then start shipping products.

since things change I don't want anyone to hold this to me, but the BD player was plugged into the plasma with a single HDMI cable. As long as the player can generate the IR sync any 120Hz display should work. The key is what with the final BD spec for 3D be? That won't be decided for another year or two.

I second what Ron said. I sat through a lot of different disappointing #D demos at CEDIA this year and this blew them all away.

#14 of 26 OFFLINE   Stephen_J_H

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Posted November 04 2008 - 05:24 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Man-Fai Wong
Hmmm... Wouldn't Bluetooth work well for this too, not just IR? Maybe it will arrive on the PS3 in a future v3.x of the software update, if this tech gets moving quickly enough. Posted Image Certainly can't imagine Sony not wanting to put this kind of tech into their flagship multimedia console (both for future gaming and for 3D on Bluray)...

_Man_
Bluetooth probably would work, but would probably be more expensive than IR, given the newness of the technology in comparison to IR.
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#15 of 26 OFFLINE   Colin Davidson

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Posted November 05 2008 - 03:51 AM

I echo the descriptions of "amazing" that others have posted above. I was standing at the back of the room which put me above the height of the display and looking down at it. The picture did not seem to suffer from this height and it continued to look fantastic. Not only has Panasonic hit a grand slam with this, the ball just didn't leave the park, it left the planet!

The only concern I have is directed to the studios and content creators for this technology. I worry about the overuse of the gimmicky "out of the screen and into the audience" style of 3D. As described above regarding the Beijing Olympics and Grand Canyon sequences and the depth of field, this was unbelievable and would make the upgrade to this technology a must have for me.

#16 of 26 OFFLINE   Jesse Skeen

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Posted November 05 2008 - 09:05 PM

So when can I buy this? Posted Image
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#17 of 26 OFFLINE   Adam Gregorich

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Posted November 06 2008 - 09:21 AM

Quote:
So when can I buy this? Posted Image

If all goes well sometime in 2010.

#18 of 26 OFFLINE   captgoodguy

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Posted November 13 2008 - 01:07 PM

There is very little I can add to this, but I too was able to attend the demonstration. I was completely blown away. I don't think I can adequately describe what this was like in regular terms. The best 3-D I've personally experienced is at various Disney and Universal theme parks. For those of you who have been to these attractions, multiply the experience by 100 and you start to get close to the quality of this technology. Even at the theme parks, if you don't sit right directly at the center of the screen, you don't get the full effect of the 3-D. NOT IN THIS CASE! I tried from the center and the side with no loss of quality. Cowbell was in the same demo and walked right up to the screen to test the picture. We were both very impressed.
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#19 of 26 OFFLINE   Stephen_J_H

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Posted November 13 2008 - 01:28 PM

I'm just wondering how 24p is going to play into all of this, as 120/24=5. Not an even division, which means film-based 3-D would probably have to be displayed @ 96 Hz, unless the display is going to revert to 3:2 pulldown.
"My opinion is that (a) anyone who actually works in a video store and does not understand letterboxing has given up on life, and (b) any customer who prefers to have the sides of a movie hacked off should not be licensed to operate a video player."-- Roger Ebert

#20 of 26 OFFLINE   CraigF

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Posted November 13 2008 - 02:54 PM

This will be the kick that BD needs to truly differentiate it from DVD for the masses. I say "hurry up".

Backward-compatibility with most relatively current HD displays will be a necessity. Too bad this wasn't available 2 years ago, sounds like it easily could have been. In that a lot of displays are being upgraded to HD in the next couple years, and a lot have been in the last couple years. Most of the public expect their displays to be "good" for numerous years. We don't want to accidentally create another niche, as BD essentially is now.

Also, seeing the 3D on a 50-60" screen would be a good practical demo, as we all want lots of people to want this tech so it'll be cheaper! I have never seen 3D on less than a movie screen, so I have no idea what it may be like on a small screen...

Edit: Also, re the IR vs BT. BT is pretty darn cheap now. I can't help but speculate there may be some feature of how the IR hits the glasses works some algorithm in their chips that figures out your viewing position (triangulation). This wouldn't work with BT. Maybe I'm just being nerdy since I obviously have no clue of the tech...Posted Image Besides that the BT would cost more, is physically larger, is more appropriate for 2-way communications, and some countries are getting quite restrictive about BT close-to-the-head stuff.


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