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"ON TRIAL: LEE HARVEY OSWALD" -- A Personal Review


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#41 of 421 OFFLINE   Jeff Gatie

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Posted June 09 2009 - 06:54 AM


I'm afraid that's just what it was. Hard to believe, but that's just what it was. The charismatic, handsome, young father and leader of the free world cut down in his prime, his brains blown all over his wife's dress, by an insane nobody who thought it would make him a somebody. Of course we want a conspiracy, because in reality, the trade off really, really sucks. Doesn't make it any less true, but it really, really sucks.

"He didn't even have the satisfaction of being killed for civil rights. It had to be some silly little Communist."

- Jacqueline Kennedy

#42 of 421 OFFLINE   Jeff Willis

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Posted June 09 2009 - 07:06 AM

As a native Dallasite who was around when it happened, it's my belief that Ozwald did it. One reason that I think this is true is that the killing of Officer Tippett says a lot about this case. That case is an open/shut case and I think that indicates who killed JFK. That said, Danny makes some points here that are interesting. I don't claim to have studied the JFK case but on the surface there seemed to be inconsistancies with some of the stories. There are a couple of other points that make me believe that Ozwald did the killing: It's always seemed to me that, if there were a planned conspiracy, we'd have heard about it by now. The media usually breaks most stories eventually...someone will surface, say something, etc. The other point that made an impression to me about the lone-gunman belief was that TV special that was shot in Australia years ago where the exact distances, etc, were duplicated for an expert marksman with human-like dummies in a vehicle traveling at the same speed, etc. If I recall, the marksman duplicated the same incident as in Dealy Plaza on that infamous day with the same entrance/exit wounds as were on the JFK & Connally bodies. Something that I've wondered about over the years was this....what if Ozwald were the lone killer but that there were other gunmen in Dealy Plaza that day to insure the death of JFK? The other gunmen didn't fire shots but may have been seen behind the fence on the knoll. That would have proved a conspiracy as well as the lone-gunman belief. It's just something that I've thought about over the years.

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#43 of 421 OFFLINE   Jack P

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Posted June 09 2009 - 07:23 AM

Jacqueline Kennedy's quote is rather sad, because to have been killed by a "silly communist" only highlights in fact the matter of how JFK should have been ultimately viewed as a martyr in the great struggle that the Cold War was, and why communist ideology represented the evil that it did during that time. Instead, even those who had the sense to realize Oswald did it, attempted to downplay ideology in his motive and instead served up a lot of nonsense about how JFK's murder said something about the American character when it did not.

#44 of 421 OFFLINE   Jeff Gatie

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Posted June 09 2009 - 07:32 AM

I don't know about that. As Communists go; Lee Harvey Oswald was about as little and silly as there ever was. He wasn't a KGB agent or an operative from Spaetznaz; he was a silly little commie, who ultimately wasn't even wanted by the commies themselves. Although he dreamed of being a Communist hero and legend, he was hardly someone the world could ever see representing the true power and menace of Communist ideology. True to his nature, Oswald even failed at that.

#45 of 421 OFFLINE   Colin Jacobson

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Posted June 09 2009 - 03:03 PM

Some folks - and I include myself - can't do that because it means the conspiracy theories deserve some credence. They don't. If someone argued vehemently that Dan Quayle was elected president in 2004 and that person wouldn't back down from their claim, would you "agree to disagree"? No - you'd just think the person was a nut, but you can't really just "disagree" on something that's a fact. And that's the case with the JFK assassination. I'd no sooner "agree to disagree" with a conspiracy nut than I'd "agree to disagree" with someone who thinks the world is flat...
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#46 of 421 ONLINE   TravisR

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Posted June 09 2009 - 03:08 PM

But it's like religion and politics, you most likely aren't going to change anyone's mind.

#47 of 421 OFFLINE   RobertR

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Posted June 09 2009 - 04:36 PM

Perhaps not, but for those who haven't gone into "true believer" territory, but might be thinking "hmmm, maybe the believer's claims have some credence", it IS important to debunk such claims by exposing the flawed reasoning/methodology, distorted/made-up facts, and sheer wishful thinking behind them. Such nonsense should ALWAYS be challenged.

#48 of 421 OFFLINE   SwatiShankar

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Posted June 09 2009 - 04:53 PM

"ON TRIAL: LEE HARVEY OSWALD" -- A Personal Review
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#49 of 421 OFFLINE   Neil Brock

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Posted June 09 2009 - 05:48 PM

I always wondered where the small minority of people were who actually believed the Warren Report. Lo and behold, they're all here on the HTF! Figures you would be one of them, Oatsy.

#50 of 421 OFFLINE   MohanShankar

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Posted June 09 2009 - 06:02 PM

The above quote came from the lips of Mrs
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#51 of 421 OFFLINE   Jeff Willis

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Posted June 09 2009 - 10:52 PM

I still think Ozwald pulled the trigger alone but I can't rule out a possible conspiracy with others either involved or perhaps with prior knowledge of what was going to take place in Dealy Plaza that day.

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#52 of 421 OFFLINE   RobertR

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Posted June 10 2009 - 01:01 AM

Keep in mind, though, that there's a difference between saying the facts and evidence show there was a conspiracy and saying you can't prove a negative (ie "prove there wasn't a conspiracy"). Asking people to prove a negative is a logical absurdity.

#53 of 421 OFFLINE   Jeff Gatie

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Posted June 10 2009 - 01:33 AM


“No one in this world has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people."

- H.L Mencken

#54 of 421 OFFLINE   David_B_K

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Posted June 10 2009 - 01:48 AM

That is probably true, but if people open their minds, and come to grips with the idea that many of the conspiracy theory "facts" are not true, they can see the validity of the Warren report and the lone gunman/single bullet "theories". I used to be a JFK conspiracy nut. I still remember watching The Men Who Killed Kennedy and Oliver Stone's JFK lapping up every bit of it. I now find those films ridiculous. The conspiracy theories are based on nothing, IMO. I'm not trying to prolong the argument. I just wanted to mention it is possible to reject the conspiracy side and accept the evidence that Oswald dunnit. Alone.

#55 of 421 OFFLINE   Jeff Gatie

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Posted June 10 2009 - 02:08 AM

Some can do this, but as you've seen in this very thread, most just hop from theory to theory; ignoring the fact each theory spouted contradicts the next (i.e. The Mob did it . . . and the Dallas PD covered it up . . . with help from the Secret Service . . . and the Doctors at the hospital!!), or each theory is shot down in seconds by those with the appropriate facts. Culminate all this with a statement like "Hey, I don't have all the answers, but the questions have to be asked" and you have the futility of arguing the JFK conspiracy in a nutshell.

#56 of 421 OFFLINE   Colin Jacobson

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Posted June 10 2009 - 02:18 AM


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#57 of 421 OFFLINE   Colin Jacobson

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Posted June 10 2009 - 02:23 AM

Agreed for the most part, though I think that's true only for the die-hard conspiracy nuts. I think 99% of the believe who believe there was a conspiracy know very little about the assassination. They've heard bits and pieces, they saw JFK - that's about it. That used to be me. I was SURE there was a conspiracy after I saw JFK! Then I actually did some reading and found out what a load of crap that movie was, and I firmly moved to the "no conspiracy" side of the street. No, all the facts in the world won't affect the mindset of the conspiracy nut jobs. The ghost of LHO could come back and tell them he did it and they'd STILL believe in their absurd theories. While I won't "agree to disagree" with them - because that means I'd have to give their ridiculous ideas some credence - I also prefer not to engage them. There's just no point. But those obsessives remain a very small minority. Like I said, the vast majority of people know next to nothing about the assassination, and once you give them some actual facts, they can see how stupid the conspiracy theories are...
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#58 of 421 OFFLINE   RobertR

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Posted June 10 2009 - 02:39 AM

I have to shake my head at the endless trotting out of theories, which is obviously done in an attempt to hide the fact that each previous theory is shown to be nonsensical ("never mind what I claimed a minute ago! What about this?"). Pathetic.

#59 of 421 OFFLINE   Jeff Gatie

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Posted June 10 2009 - 03:08 AM

Bugliosi has a chapter on the truly loony theories that are the end result of the "never mind what I claimed a minute ago! What about this" obfuscation technique. The absurdity of the claims in that chapter (switched bodies, JFK wasn't even in Dallas, cardboard coffins, Lee Harvey Oswald's KGB trained identical twin, etc.) could drive even hardcore conspiracy nuts to question their allegiance.

#60 of 421 OFFLINE   Neil Brock

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Posted June 10 2009 - 04:01 AM

Still haven't gotten an answer yet on why the limo, the actual CRIME SCENE, where the most actual evidence might exist, was immediately wiped clean of ALL evidence. Please explain exactly why that was done and why it would be done. What, because in the few hours after the murder all of the possible evidence they could ever hope to find had been found and there was no possible need to look at it anymore?




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