Jump to content



Sign up for a free account to remove the pop-up ads

Signing up for an account is fast and free. As a member you can join in the conversation, enter contests and remove the pop-up ads that guests get. Click here to create your free account.

Photo
- - - - -

Upgrading Receiver and I need personal experience and references!


This topic has been archived. This means that you cannot reply to this topic.
14 replies to this topic

#1 of 15 OFFLINE   Xander H

Xander H

    Agent



  • 43 posts
  • Join Date: May 02 2005

Posted August 25 2008 - 09:42 PM

So I am planning on upgrading my Pioneer VSX 1015TX receiver. When I bought it I had a dvd player and a cable box to input to, and a 32" SD TV to output to with a center and a left/right speaker. Now I have 7 great big speakers, a nice SVS sub, a high def satellite receiver, a PS3, and an XBox 360 Elite. I've spent hundreds of dollars on component and optical audio, but I'm going to give all that to my parents and go full HDMI if I can find a receiver to suit my needs. That's where you all come in! I know nothing about any of the new specs and features on receivers these days, but I figure every single person reading this post will have a receiver of their own (at least one) and an opinion or two about it. That'll work perfectly! I am a bit of an audiophile (as pretentious as that sounds, I just cannot get enough of awesome sound during movies or blasting out some fantastic music that shakes my whole neighborhood..mmm...) so the receiver has to be able to decode and play all the lossless/top of the line sound stuff from the Blu-Rays coming in through my PS3. Past that, it just needs to have at least 3 (preferably 4) HDMI inputs and at least 1 (preferably 2) HDMI outputs. So what features should I be looking for when I'm shopping? I know when I bought my Pioneer I was told to look for that THX Select2 certification, and to look for the auto MCACC calibration. Past that, I know nothing except what I've read from scouring this forum for the past hour or so. So I need a few people out there with receivers that they LOVE to chime in and tell me why, or some brainiacs (<3 geeks) that can tell me what to look for. I would like a few price ranges...say under $500, under $1000, and under $1500 so I can compare and see if it's worth it to save for those extra months or not. Sorry for rambling, if you made it through my post I commend you, and thank you in advance for any advice/comments/wisdom/flames I get!

#2 of 15 OFFLINE   Dave Moritz

Dave Moritz

    Producer



  • 3,481 posts
  • Join Date: Jul 07 2001

Posted August 27 2008 - 06:26 AM

I would begin with suggesting that you do not put to much stock in having a THX badge on a receiver. I would not pass up a receiver based on it not having the THX logo on it.

While there are new technology's and new features in todays receivers there are still may specifications that have not changed. Personally I do not recommend Sony receivers mostly because of the amplifier sections. And I do not recommend Sherwood Newcastle as I have my doubts about there specs. I would go out and demo as many as you can and go with the one that sounds best to you and has the features you want. Just keep in mind that it is in your best interest to spend some time tweaking the settings to help get the best performance out of your new receiver. This will require some time and patients but the results will be well worth it.

Under $500
I honestly do not think you are going to find a receiver with 3-4 HDMI inputs that also decodes lossless Dolby and DTS. One of the draw backs with this price range is the amount of sacrifices you will need to make. I would seriously move up to the $1,000 range to get something that meets your requirements.

Under $1,000

Onkyo TX-SR706 MSRP $899
  • HDMI V1.3a repeater (4in/1out, 1080p compatible)
  • THX Select2 Plus Certified
  • Power: 100 watts per channel (8ohms 20-20kHz, 0.08% THD)
  • High Instantaneous Current Capability - 36A
  • Decoding: DD Plus, TrueHD, DTS-HD Master Audio
  • DAC's: 192K/24 Bit DACs - Not Burr Brown !
  • Component Video (50MHz): 2 Inputs/1 Out
  • Video Processing: Faroudja DCDi Cinema
  • Audyssey MultEQ Room Correction
I would personally prefer if they used Burr Brown DAC's (Digital to Analog Converters). And while 50MHz is said to be enough for 1080i, I would rather have 100MHz bandwidth.


Denon AVR-2309ci MSRP $849
  • HDMI V1.3a repeater (4in/1out, 1080p compatible)
  • Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD decoding
  • Dolby Pro Logic IIx – with Cinema, Music, Game Modes
  • Power: 100 watts per channel (8ohms 20-20kHz, 0.05% THD)
  • High-Current/Discrete Amplifiers
  • DAC's: 192K/24 Bit DACs - 24-bit/192-192kHz ADAU1328
  • Component Video (100MHz): 3 Inputs/1 Out
  • Video Processing: Faroudja DCDi Cinema
  • Audyssey MultEQ Room Correction
I actually prefer the Denon because of its performance and implementation of technologies and features. Even without the THX Ultra2 certification I would choose the Denon over the Onkyo. The Denon has a slightly cleaner amplifier section and better bandwidth on the component video. And usually the lower end Denon's seem to tend to have better DAC's and processing.


Under $1,500

Denon AVR-2809 MSRP $1,199
  • HDMI V1.3a repeater (4in/1out, 1080p compatible), supports 1080p, Deep Color, xvYCC, CEC functions
  • Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD decoding
  • Dolby Digital, dts and DSP Modes – Analog Devices, HammerHead SHARC
  • Power: 115 watts per channel (8ohms 20-20kHz, 0.05% THD)
  • High-Current/Discrete Amplifiers
  • DAC's: 192K/24 Bit Burr Brown DACs
  • Component Video (100MHz): 3 Inputs/1 Out
  • Video Processing: Faroudja DCDi Cinema
  • Audyssey MultEQ Room Correction
  • Audyssey Dynamic Volume automatic volume-leveling system
  • Audyssey Dynamic EQ automatic tonal balance adjustment system
CEC functions - HDMI Consumer Electronic Control (CEC) technology and performance testing | Video/Imaging DesignLine


Denon AVR-3808ci MSRP $1,699
  • HDMI V1.3a repeater (4in/1out, 1080p compatible)
  • Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD decoding
  • Dolby Pro Logic IIx – with Cinema, Music, Game Modes
  • Dolby Digital, dts and DSP Modes – Analog Devices, HammerHead SHARC
  • Power: 130 watts per channel (8ohms 20-20kHz, 0.05% THD)
  • High-Current/Discrete Amplifiers
  • DAC's: 192K/24 Bit Burr Brown DACs
  • Component Video (100MHz): 3 Inputs/2 Out
  • Video Processing: Faroudja DCDi Cinema
  • Audyssey MultEQ Room Correction (Upgradeable to Audyssey Pro)
  • Denon Offering future upgrade to Audyssey Dynamic Volume & Audyssey Dynamic EQ for around $100. Future model will most likely include those two features.
  • Ethernet - Firmware updates
  • Denon Link
Onkyo TX-SR806 MSRP $1,099
  • HDMI V1.3a repeater (5in/1out, 1080p compatible)
  • THX Select Ultra2 Plus Certified
  • Power: 130 watts per channel (8ohms 20-20kHz, 0.08% THD)
  • High Instantaneous Current Capability - 36A
  • Decoding: DD Plus, TrueHD, DTS-HD Master Audio
  • DAC's: 192K/24 Bit DACs - Not Burr Brown !
  • Component Video (50MHz): 2 Inputs/1 Out
  • Video Processing: Faroudja DCDi Cinema
  • Audyssey MultEQ Room Correction
Can not upgrade to Audyssey Dynamic Volume & Audyssey Dynamic EQ. This model also does not include Burr Brown DAC's and has a slightly higher THD rating just like the TX-SR706.

Pioneer VSX-92TXH MSRP $1,500
  • HDMI V1.3a repeater (3in/1out, 1080p compatible), supports 1080p, Deep Color, xvYCC, CEC functions
  • THX Select Ultra2 Plus Certified
  • Power: 130 watts per channel (8ohms 20-20kHz, 0.09% THD)
  • Decoding: DD Plus, TrueHD, DTS-HD Master Audio
  • Dolby Digital, dts and DSP Modes – Analog Devices, HammerHead SHARC
  • DAC's: 192K/24 Bit DACs - Not Burr Brown !
  • Component Video (100MHz): 3 Inputs/1 Out
  • Video Processing: Faroudja DCDi Cinema
  • Advanced MCACC 9-band EQ
I have nothing against the MCACC that Pioneer uses and I have heard it in another members HT that was using Swan Diva speakers and a SVS subwoofer, it sounded great. I feel that the Audyssey room correction does a nicer job than the MCACC. But that does not mean it will not sound better to your ears! Now one of the things you could do if you have a really good set of speakers or if you are planning on buying a really good set of speakers. Is to add a power amp later on down the line and turn your receiver into a pre/pro.

IMHO Denon, Marantz and Pioneer Elite make really nice gear, along with some of the higher end Onkyo and Integra line up. Many of the Onkyo's are THX Plus Ultra 2 rated if that is something you really want. The Onkyo TX-SR805 with some of its quirks is a jack hammer for the money as long as the firmware is up to date, especially if you can find an online deal! Just make sure you do not place the 805 into a tight and or restricted space as it runs on the hot side and needs lots of ventalation. One of the draw backs to the 805 is that if you run 1080i to the receiver via component and out HDMI it will scale it to 720p. So you would have to run a component video cable to your display to get 1080i to the display.

Now if you are willing to spend over $1,500 where you start to get into the flagship receiver area. Then I would suggest looking at some of these models.

Onkyo TX-NR906 MSRP $2,299
Receivers | Product Line | Onkyo USA Home Theater Products

Denon AVR-4308ci MSRP $2,699
Denon USA | AVR-4308CI
Now it has alot of flexability but as much as I love Denon I honestly feel the 3808ci is a much better deal. And with the toraoidal transformer with 2 seperate transformers for the audio and video processing the Onkyo TX-NR905 IMHO is a better deal as well.

Marantz SR-8002 MSRP $1,999.99
Marantz America | SR8002 THX® Select2 Surround Receiver

Pioneer Elite VSX-94TXH MSRP $1,800
Pioneer USA - Elite A/V Receivers


The nice thing about getting the lower end receivers like the Onkyo 806 or Denon 2809. Is that you can upgrade certain parts of the receiver by adding external devices. If you decide in a few years that you want to get more serious but do not want to get another receiver but also want a projector. You can always set your internal video processor to pass through, and use and external video processor. Another thing you can do is to use external power amplifiers and turn your receiver into a pre amp/processor. Or you can always upgrade to a pre amp/processor. The thing is that there are lots of options and lots of differnet ways to configure your home theater no matter what your budget is!

Things I would look for:
  • 100 Watts per channel minimum. (The bigger the room the more power I would get. Also be open to changing speakers if you have a large room. If you like to turn up the sound for movies in a large room small speakers typically do not cut it. Disregard this if you have speakers that can handle the room and power output of the receiver you end up buying.
  • If you have your equipment in a dedicated room I would consider room treatments. This is something that most people over look and it is something that would improve the sound of your room even with the use of MCACC or Audyssey room correction.
  • Get a receiver with a good quality amplifier that can provide clean sound and has enough head room to handle the peaks.
  • Plan out what your current needs are and think about what you will need this receiver to do in the near future.
  • If the retailer allows it, take your favorite CD's, DVD's and Blu-ray's and use the same material when listening to different receivers. IMHO this is the best way to demo a receiver, player or any gear.
  • Keep this in mind, higher end receivers tend to use better components, DAC's and processing. Some company's implement technology better than other companies so ask questions while you are shopping.
  • Unless you know what you want already and are willing to get the best price online. Shop at local dealers that specialize in audio/video gear. It also does not hurt to do business with a retailer that are members of CEDIA (Custom Electronic Design & Installation Association).
20 years ago you had to have money to have a great home theater and the best home theaters cost $$$$. Today it is possible for the average consumer to have a very nice home theater that can beat the ht of 20 years ago. This is something that most of us can do without spending an absured amount of money. I am sorry this response is so long and I hope it does help you in some way.

Feel free to private message me and let me know what you ended up with.

Good Hunting! Posted Image Posted Image

I am saving up for a new receiver as well and I have narrowed it down to the Denon AVR-2809ci or maybe a Denon AVR-3808ci if I can get a smoking hot deal online. The Denon is replacing my current Yamaha RX-V995 which is a 5.1 surround receiver with 5.1 Dolby Digital and DTS decoding.


Supporter of 1080p & 4K/UHD video (256 Blu-ray Titles)/ Supporter of Lossless PCM, Dolby True HD and DTS HD Master Audio / Say No To MP3 & WMA / Say no to Bose

 

 
 

 


#3 of 15 OFFLINE   Xander H

Xander H

    Agent



  • 43 posts
  • Join Date: May 02 2005

Posted August 27 2008 - 09:50 AM

Please don't apologize for length, that post was incredible! So much great information that I'm sure will be absolutely invaluable in my receiver choosing process. It looks like I'll be counting out the below-500 set completely and looking at something between 800-1200 dollars (that's about my limit I think, unless spending an extra 100-150 bucks past that would put me into new class or give me a great new feature).

Right now I'm working with:
JBL Home Audio
for my center speaker and 6 of these for the rest of my speakers:
Amazon.com: JBL Northridge E30 6-Inch Speakers (Cherry): Electronics

I'm wondering if all these receivers have enough ooomph to power all those at the super high volumes I'm hoping to push them to. I don't watch all movies like that, but sometimes you just wanna sit down and throw in some Die Hard Blu-Rays and feel every explosion rock your frame like you were standing in Nakatomi plaza yourself Posted Image

Right now I'm really liking the looks of the Denon AVR-2809 that you posted. It seems just in there on my price range, but looks like it spans a wide variety of options and features that could be potentially useful. Honestly, I'm not a very smart shopper so I'm just going to keep checking here and hoping people post some more great posts like yours with their own personal receiver experiences in that price range...otherwise I think you pretty much won me over!

#4 of 15 OFFLINE   Christian Behrens

Christian Behrens

    Supporting Actor



  • 714 posts
  • Join Date: Mar 02 2000
  • Real Name:Christian Behrens
  • LocationSF Bay Area

Posted August 28 2008 - 04:37 AM

I'm in a similar boat, looking to upgrade my receiver. If you don't mind buying refurbished, the aforementioned Marantz SR8002 can be had for $1300, the SR7002 for less than $900, from Accessories4Less, an Marantz authorized Internet dealer, which means full warranty.

Personally, I like the sound of Marantz, and since I have another Marantz in another setup, it would make it easier with the remote controls etc. Also, these receivers are not quite as deep as some other models (<16"). For example, the Onkyo 805 is over 18" deep, which doesn't really work in my environment.

-Christian
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Benjamin Franklin)

#5 of 15 OFFLINE   JerryMa

JerryMa

    Stunt Coordinator



  • 93 posts
  • Join Date: Aug 11 2003

Posted August 29 2008 - 07:54 PM

I recently bought the Pio Elite VSX-91TXH and run it with JBL as well: E50 mains, EC-25 center and E10 surrounds. Love the sound of this combo for music and movies. I've got a Toshiba HD-A3 hooked up for movies. I don't have a sub but the 91 routes the LFE to the fronts and the sound is awesome. If you want to save a few bucks, maybe the older Pio Elite 90's (91 or above) are a good upgrade for you, especially since your current HTR is Pioneer. You could also look at the recent 2008 Elite releases (01, 03, etc., see their website for details), but they'll be priced much higher. Note that the higher in the series you go, the more HDMI inputs you get. I think there's one that has 4 in and 1 out, but I know there are one or more with 3 in and 1 out. The newer version of your current receiver is the 1018TX and also does all the new audio formats, if you want the functions of the Elites without the price. I think that one is 3 HDMI in/1 out.

#6 of 15 OFFLINE   gene c

gene c

    Producer



  • 5,763 posts
  • Join Date: Aug 05 2003
  • Real Name:Gene
  • LocationBay area, Ca

Posted August 30 2008 - 03:37 AM

Buying a receiver just shouldn't be this difficult. It's more confusing and frustrating than buying a new car! I finally gave up and bought a used Pioneer as a stop-gap (but I'm now convinced i-Link is the best way to transfer DVD-A/SACD) and Dave Moritz has been mulling over and researching them for as long as I can remember!

Anyway, if I were you (and I'm not, but I'm just saying...) I would look in the lower mid-range like the Pioneer 1018 and 91txh, the Onkyo 805, Denon 1709 Yamaha 863, etc. and spend what you save on a good sub. Those JBL's, or most any speaker for that matter, are not designed to take the lower frequencies like bomb blastes and such. Not to mention the LFE. You really are risking damage to your speakers. Especially at higher volume levels. Just some friendly advice Posted Image .

And Dave, yet again an excellent post Posted Image . But you're starting to put the rest of us to shame so knock it off, already! Posted Image
"Everyday room": Panasonic 58" Plasma, Dish HD DVR, Pioneer Elite vsx-23, BDP-23 BR, dv58avi universal dvd player, Paradigm Studio 20 V1, CC-450, Dayton HSU-10 subwoofer.

"Movie/Music room": Toshiba 65" DLP, Dish HD receiver, Marantz 7005, CC-4003, BD-7006, Polk LSI25's-LSi7's-LSiC, 2 original Dayton 10" "Mighty-Mites" subwoofers. (subject to change without notice).
 
Also have  MB Quart Vera VS05 +.....too much to list. Help me.
 
 

 


#7 of 15 OFFLINE   Dave Moritz

Dave Moritz

    Producer



  • 3,481 posts
  • Join Date: Jul 07 2001

Posted August 30 2008 - 01:43 PM

No doubt Marantz is well know for there receivers having good sound and I to was considering them. It is not easy to find a Marantz dealer nearby in Phoenix and it is easier to get a Denon and I like the Denon's alot so I will be picking one up no later than May.

Supporter of 1080p & 4K/UHD video (256 Blu-ray Titles)/ Supporter of Lossless PCM, Dolby True HD and DTS HD Master Audio / Say No To MP3 & WMA / Say no to Bose

 

 
 

 


#8 of 15 OFFLINE   John Dirk

John Dirk

    Second Unit



  • 412 posts
  • Join Date: May 07 2000

Posted August 30 2008 - 03:52 PM

Well, for what it's worth, I was recently in a similar quandary and ultimately chose the Onkyo TX-SR805. I have a pretty large room and, like you, prefer to shake the entire house from time to time. Overall I have been extremely pleased with the Onkyo. It has an awesome pedigree for the price. It does run hot, but a simple and inexpensive cooling fan took care of that for me, and even before I added the fan, the unit never malfunctioned or shut off due to heat. It has, however, shut off on me a few times at higher volumes, which I find quite annoying, so I am currently considering a separate 2 or 3 channel power amp. My Yamaha RX-V2500 [similar power rating] never had this problem. The Onkyo is a great deal. It's glaring weakness is its video processing, but this was not a concern for me since my projector does a fine job of scaling my component sources. You should factor this into your decision as well. No sense paying for a redundant video scaler if you already have it covered by another component. I did not see any mention of your video hardware in your original post. Certainly, there are other choices, but I've been very happy with my decision. Good hunting... John
"The names Francis Sawyer, but everybody calls me "Psycho."
Any of YOU guys call ME Francis, and I'll kill ya!"

My Home Theater
My BlogMy Travels

#9 of 15 OFFLINE   Phil Iturralde

Phil Iturralde

    Screenwriter



  • 1,868 posts
  • Join Date: Oct 07 1998

Posted September 01 2008 - 04:39 AM


Playing around with different sound formats as mentioned above, ... I agree with David's review concerning the Audyssey 2EQ / Dynamic EQ system & it's effectiveness!!! Posted Image Posted Image

NOTE: Select the link above to read the entire Onkyo TX-SR606 Review. David Vaughn comments about the heat in the review, ... but had no comments or issues w/buzz, hiss, etc.

-----------------

Prior to ordering the Onkyo TX-SR606, I researched the web and found the following possible issues ...

POSSIBLE ISSUES:

1) BUZZ or HISS PROBLEMS???

I think some of the problems arose with a few TX-SR606 & PS3 HDMI combinations. I don't have a PS3 so I can't comment on that.

SO, ... w/my Onkyo TX-SR606 & Toshiba HD-A35 & Sony DBP-S350 setup = None, NO, nada problems with HUMM or HISS or any artifical noise when I'm playing my HD Movies @ -10 dBc below REF Level (w/approx. 106 dBc Fast LFE SPL Peaks)!

2) HEAT:
Onkyo adds the following Caution Label ...
Posted Image

... and my TX-SR606 is on top of a small 3-shelf equipment rack.

So, ... NO Problems related w/HEAT with my TX-SR606!

The first weekend, I left it on for 17 hours (6AM - 11PM) Saturday (8-30-08), playing CD's, AM/FM Radio, DVR and HD DVD / Blu-ray discs later in the evening @ near REF Level SPL's!

-----------------

PERFORMANCE:

1) -5 dBc BELOW REFERENCE LEVEL:

For kicks, I just put on the Blu-ray ID4 - DTS HD Master Audio, the final battle scene and turned-up the TX-SR606 volume to 55, which with this Blu-ray audio soundtrack turned out to be approx. -5 dBc below REF Level (w/approx. 1 Fast LFE SPL Fast Peak hitting 110dB Posted Image Posted Image - most bombastic sub-sonic LFE SPL Fast Peaks around 103-107dB) and the sound didn't hardened up like my ole' Yamaha RX-V1300!!! Pressing PAUSE and the speakers were silent!!!

The 360-degree seamless surround sound was smooth around me, w/more distinct discrete effects, the dialog track was very clear, balanced to the action scenes around it, and it sounded like the Onkyo was breathing life into a very familiar movie soundtrack effortlessly!!!

NOTE: HT/family room 20' x 30' w/10' high vaulted ceiling room.

2) AUDYSSEY 2EQ / DYNAMIC EQ:
It's just amazing what the Audyssey 2EQ equalized HT Sounds vs. a manually Referenced Audio Calibration (RS SPL Meter & Test Tone).

I'm just surprized (using my example) how implementing a simple, 3-Measurement Location Calibration System** can IMPROVE the OVERALL 360-degree seamless surround soundstage w/greater clarity and depth! You don't have to spend $799+ (think my ole' Yamaha RX-V1300) to achieve sonic bliss w/HD audio with the right speakers anymore, and products that utilize the Audyssey system makes it possible for modest HT Systems (w/TX-SR606) to compare and hear those subtle differences.

**Onkyo TX-SR606 Audyssey System:
1) 2EQ: Measures 3 room positions, uses a basic resolution filter for the satellites. - Amazing results!!!

2) Dynamic EQ maintains consistent bass response, tonal balance and surround impression. - This is even more amazing!

I can say that the claims that the Audyssey 2EQ takes into account the speakers, frequency response and HT room interaction during the 3-position measurement process does work, it's amazing!!! It just amazing!!! Posted Image Posted Image

-------------------------

***AMAZON ADVANTAGE:
I still have until the 7th of Sept. to return the Onykyo TX-SR606 and/or Sony DBP-S350 if I'm not happy with their performance, and based on the various evaluation near REF LEVEL tests, ... I'm planning to keep this setup!!!

Amazon had a 30-day Post Purchasing Price Warranty & I just read that ended Sept. 1st (today).

I'll miss the Post Puchasing Price Warranty because and when I bought my Onykyo TX-SR606 and/or Sony DBP-S350, both prices have dropped!!!

August 4th Original $: ...............Aug. 28th Received Refunds
Onykyo TX-SR606 - $393.45 .....$343.42

August 4th Original $: ...............Aug. 31st Received Refunds
Sony DBP-S350 - $357.20.........$327.09

Hope this helps,
Phil
My HT Enthusiasts Google Website
---- Toshiba 62HM196 62" 1080p DLP HDTV pic's (#1 in Consumer Reports)
DVD Aficionado (DVDAF) on-going list.
Acquisition Rule #59 “Free advice is seldom cheap.” (Quark @ DS9)
JBL S-Series + SVS 25-31PCi (SN: 00034) w/NSD Upgrade!

#10 of 15 OFFLINE   Xander H

Xander H

    Agent



  • 43 posts
  • Join Date: May 02 2005

Posted September 01 2008 - 05:50 PM

It's way harder than buying a car, this is my sound system we're talking about! And I forgot to mention in my previous post that I'm working with a pretty nice SVS sub, so it already shakes pictures off the walls upstairs (from my theater in the basement) during the big fights. I just think I can do better! So I was looking at the Denon AVR-1909 and the Pioneer 1018 but the more I checked out the features the more it seemed like it would hardly be an upgrade from my 1015-VSX. I really like the looks of the Denon AVR-2809CI and especially the 3808CI, although if I'm reading right it seems like they don't have all the Audyssey stuff that people have been raving about? At least not as a default? Anyway, I guess my question is this...do you guys think that going from the 1015 to the 1018 and will be a noticeable difference (cause I'd sure like to save all that money over the 3808 if I could) or should I wait till X-Mas and try to get a great deal on one of the Denons?

#11 of 15 OFFLINE   Dave Moritz

Dave Moritz

    Producer



  • 3,481 posts
  • Join Date: Jul 07 2001

Posted September 02 2008 - 02:35 AM

Hello Xander H,

Here is my take on the 1015 vs 1018.

The 1018 will give you the extra benafit of decoding lossless audio like Dolby True HD and DTS-HD MA along with Dolby Digital Plus. The 1018 also has 3 HDMI v1.3 inputs which is another big plus. It is XM and Sirius ready if you have or are planing to subscribe to ether service. The Onkyo 706 and 806 do not even have 100 MHz component video switching and the 1018 does. The 1018 has a 9 band eq vs the 5 band eq that you have now. The 1018 also has a windows media 9 pro decoder for audio and XM HD surround decoding as well.

Pioneer VSX-1015TX 7.1 Receiver
120 watts x 2 (20 Hz - 20kHz 0.2% THD @ 8 Ohm)
THD Rating: 0.09% @ 20Hz - 20KHz
3 Component Video In / 1 Component Out
Processing: Dolby Digital EX, DTS-ES and Dolby Pro Logic ll
5.1 Channel Analog Input
7.1 Channel Pre/Out
Component Video Bandwidth 5MHz - 100MHz
MCACC Room Correction w 5 Band EQ
DAC's: 192KHz/24Bit

Pioneer VSX-1018AH-K 7.1 Receiver MSRP $599
Power Rating: 130 Watts per channel @ 1KHz w/ 0.05% THD @ 8 ohm
THD Rating: 0.09% @ 20Hz - 20KHz
(Actual Power from 20Hz - 20KHz is most likely 110 - 115 Watts)
3 HDMI Inputs / 1 HDMI Out (HDMI 1.3)
3 Component Video In / 1 Component Out
Processing: Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby True HD, DTS HR and DTS-HD MA
7.1 Channel Analog Input
7.1 Channel Pre/Out
Component Video Bandwidth 5MHz - 100MHz
MCACC Room Correction w 9 Band EQ
DAC's: ??? (They should be 192KHz/24Bit, no idea what DAC they are using)

Now on to the Denon's

The Denon 2809 has all the latest Audyssey but the 3808 does not, but is supposed to be upgradeable for a fee. I do not think there has been a date set for this upgrade yet but it is said that it is coming soon. The 3808 can also be upgraded to Audyssey Pro which the 2809 to my knowledge can not. Both Denon's are very nice and IMHO are going to be a nice step up from the Pioneer VSX-1018AH-K. While yes it msrp's for about twice the amount you might find a really good deal online somewhere. And the 2809 is going to be IMHO a better quality receiver over all. That is not to say that the 1018 is not a good deal for its price point, because it does offer alot for the money. The Onkyo TX-SR806 msrp's for $1,099 and only offers 50 MHz component video, no Burr Brown DAC's and only 2 component inputs. The only thing the 806 conectivity wise has over the 1018 is 5 HDMI inputs vs 3 HDMI inputs. Granted the 806 has some Audyssey features that are going to be better than the 1018. But IMHO the Denon is a better receiver than the 806 and would offer a better performance edge over the 1018, even though the 2809 is rated at 115 watts per channel.

Denon AVR-2809ci 7.1 Surround Receiver MSRP $1,199
115 watts x 2 (20 Hz - 20kHz 0.05% THD @ 8 Ohm)
High-Current/Discrete Amplifiers
4 HDMI Inputs / 1 HDMI Out, HDMI v1.3 processing and switching , supports 1080p, Deep Color, xvYCC, CEC functions.
3 Component Video In / 1 Component Out
Processing: Dolby TrueHD, Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby Digital Surround EX, Dolby Pro Logic IIx, DTS-HD Master Audio, DTS ES 6.1 Discrete, DTS ES 6.1 Matrix, DTS Neo:6 decoding.
Dolby Digital, dts and DSP Modes – Analog Devices, HammerHead SHARC
7.1 Channel Analog Input
7.1 Channel Pre/Out
Pure Direct/Direct/Stereo Modes on Digital/Analog inputs.
HDMI Deep Color Support-36Bit
HDMI xvYCC Color Space Support
HDMI SACD Support
Component Video Bandwidth 5MHz - 100MHz
Audyssey MultEQ XT in-room acoustic correction system
Audyssey Dynamic Volume automatic volume-leveling system
Audyssey Dynamic EQ automatic tonal balance adjustment system
DAC's:Burr Brown 192KHz/24Bit
Analog-to-Digital Conversion - Bit Depth/Sampling Rate: Burr Brown 24-bit/96-kHz.
2 12v triggers
Rear Panel RS-232C



The Denon 3808ci MSRP's for about $1,699 and has the following edge over the 2809:


130 watts per channel, Ethernet port, DENON LINK III, 2nd zone component video out, DNLA certified, USB port, 3 more DSP modes, 1 optical in/1 optical out more.



Personally I have chosen to go with the Denon AVR-2809ci to replace my Yamaha RX-V995. There is a small chance if I get a really good deal on a 3808ci online I might just go for it. But IMHO the 2809 has alot of bang for the buck and would make a really good pre/pro later on down the road. Now if your budget will not allow for the 2809 you might want to consider the 1018 for the HDMI 1.3 switching and lossless decoding. But you might want to consider saving up that extra cash for the Denon though, just a thought.

Here is my a/v rack and the receiver that the Denon will replace:
Posted Image


Another thought: Now if push comes to shove and you budget will not allow for the 2809 and you go for the 1018. You can always add a used external power amp to the 1018 later on once finances allow.



Hope this helped in some way?

Supporter of 1080p & 4K/UHD video (256 Blu-ray Titles)/ Supporter of Lossless PCM, Dolby True HD and DTS HD Master Audio / Say No To MP3 & WMA / Say no to Bose

 

 
 

 


#12 of 15 OFFLINE   Xander H

Xander H

    Agent



  • 43 posts
  • Join Date: May 02 2005

Posted September 26 2008 - 10:01 PM

Wow, I am really embarassed, sorry for the double post. Posted Image

#13 of 15 OFFLINE   Xander H

Xander H

    Agent



  • 43 posts
  • Join Date: May 02 2005

Posted September 26 2008 - 10:02 PM

Arise thread! Arise!

So the time has come to finally make the purchase, I've got the cash and I'm scouring the web for a receiver to fit my needs. I have the Denon 2809CI in my mind and I'm trying to find a good price for than, then I run across the chance to pick up a cheap (500 bucks) brand new Pioneer Elite VSX-01TXH

I looked at the specs and it seems like it's pretty damn nice machine, but I must be missing something...why is it so much less in price than the Denon and the Onyko that I was looking at earlier? Why is it virtually the same price as the 1018TX and what differences are there? Aside from watts I couldn't find much of anything to explain the price difference and I'm looking for quality over savings, so if I end up having to spend 900 instead of 500 I'm okay with that if 900 will get me something better.

I just hate spending 900 for something that 500 can do just as well, is all. Take a look at these specs and let me know what I'm missing? Thanks!

Pioneer USA - Elite A/V Receivers

#14 of 15 OFFLINE   Dave Moritz

Dave Moritz

    Producer



  • 3,481 posts
  • Join Date: Jul 07 2001

Posted September 27 2008 - 01:03 PM

One of the differences between the Pioneer and Denon is that to my knowledge does not offer Dynamic Volume and Dynamic EQ. How ever if you listen to alot of music off of CD's there are two Pioneer models that in conjunction with the new Pioneer BDP-51FD, that have a jitter reduction feature that is said to improve music quality. But let me through this out there really quick, the less you spend on something to more likely you will end up with some area that has something cut back. You might get an older DAC, less power in the amplifier section, less flexability in regaurds to inputs or less features like Dynamic EQ or something that has not had the technology intergrated as well as something else that cost a little more. You just have to look at what your needs, budget and room size so that you end up with something that will get the job done.
Generally I find that Denon produces a better product than both Pioneer and Onkyo with over all performance, features and intergration of technology. Onkyo has some models that have alot of bang for the buck and Pioneer makes some very nice receiver as well. Onkyo IMHO has a poor track record of customer service and taking care of customers problems. And Pioneer with there Elite brand do a very good job as well and it just matters what room correction solution you prefer when looking at Denon and Audyssey and Pioneer with MCACC.

Supporter of 1080p & 4K/UHD video (256 Blu-ray Titles)/ Supporter of Lossless PCM, Dolby True HD and DTS HD Master Audio / Say No To MP3 & WMA / Say no to Bose

 

 
 

 


#15 of 15 OFFLINE   Xander H

Xander H

    Agent



  • 43 posts
  • Join Date: May 02 2005

Posted September 27 2008 - 04:57 PM

Well right now I really do love my VSX-1015TX which is Pioneer, and MCACC seems to be pretty awesome (although I hear great things about Audyssey of course). I just wanted to make sure I wasn't going to buy this receiver that no one listed up above and get it home and end up with no place to plug in a subwoofer or something that I should have caught right up front that made it so much cheaper. I can get this VSX-01TXH for 600 bucks, that's cheaper even than the other pioneer talked about above, the 1018TX, and it seems to have more features to boot. But I guess I"ll go for it then and hope for the best, at the very least I know it will have HDMI inputs and outputs and will play all the TrueHD and lossless audio from blu-rays that I wanted, so the rest is really gravy. Thanks a lot!