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1080i Component output and DVD's in 2008?


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18 replies to this topic

#1 of 19 CoolCatbro

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Posted August 23 2008 - 03:54 PM

Ok, my brother bought a big old WS 65511 Mitsubishi.

Its only 1080i input is component. (no HDMI back when they made these).

1) So can a person buy a DVD player that has Component 1080i?

2) Do the 2008 DVD's, and in general, remain compatible?

I did some reading but all the posts were like 2002 or 2003....seemed easier to post, a 2008 question.

Edit: After reading ...what a mess! Everyone getting stiffed with the HDMI coming out, Component DTV owners left to hang.

Wrote down several DVD players, seems the Zenith DV318 is a main player to search for.
This will be fun finding a old DVD player.

Anyone have one for sale let me know!

#2 of 19 gene c

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Posted August 24 2008 - 03:14 AM

I'm not the best to answer this, but that hasen't stopped me from trying in the past so here goes.

Dvd players only up-convert thru hdmi, not component, I believe for copywright reasons. The exceptions are a Zenith and an LG which snuck thru when they were'nt lookin'. But they haven't been available for years.

#1) BluRay players while playing a BluRay disc thru component will be 1080i.

#2) New discs (and old) will be compatable. If your dvd player can play it, the tv will convert the resolution to 1080i or whatever it's set at, if the resolution is adjustable.

I used an old Apex 1080i tv via component for 4 years and the picture was actually very good with a Yamaha 6770. In short, you should have no problems playing dvd's thru component on that set. Pretty much any dvd player will work.
"Everyday room": Panasonic 58" Plasma, Dish HD DVR, Pioneer Elite vsx-23, BDP-23 BR, dv58avi universal dvd player, Paradigm Studio 20 V1, CC-450, Dayton HSU-10 subwoofer.

"Movie/Music room": Toshiba 65" DLP, Dish HD receiver, Marantz 7005, CC-4003, BD-7006, Polk LSI25's-LSi7's-LSiC, 2 original Dayton 10" "Mighty-Mites" subwoofers. (subject to change without notice).
 
Also have  MB Quart Vera VS05 +.....too much to list. Help me.
 
 

 


#3 of 19 CoolCatbro

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Posted August 24 2008 - 04:09 AM

how come blu ray can do it legally?

1080i on component on bluray is ok, everyone else isn't?

thnx

#4 of 19 gene c

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Posted August 24 2008 - 04:21 AM

Because on BluRay discs the resolution is already 1080i/1080p. No up-converting is needed.
"Everyday room": Panasonic 58" Plasma, Dish HD DVR, Pioneer Elite vsx-23, BDP-23 BR, dv58avi universal dvd player, Paradigm Studio 20 V1, CC-450, Dayton HSU-10 subwoofer.

"Movie/Music room": Toshiba 65" DLP, Dish HD receiver, Marantz 7005, CC-4003, BD-7006, Polk LSI25's-LSi7's-LSiC, 2 original Dayton 10" "Mighty-Mites" subwoofers. (subject to change without notice).
 
Also have  MB Quart Vera VS05 +.....too much to list. Help me.
 
 

 


#5 of 19 CoolCatbro

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Posted August 24 2008 - 06:48 AM

I thought part of the reason for stopping the Component HD was copyright/copying reasons?

I'm confused...as usual. Anyway, its all HDMI now anyway! right.
This whole thread I posted is like a blast from 2003.
thx..

#6 of 19 Clinton McClure

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Posted August 24 2008 - 04:14 PM

All Blu-Ray players, like HD-DVD players, will output 1080i via component only when playing a Blu-Ray or HD-DVD, or an SD-DVD which contains no copy protection.

Most legally produced SD-DVDs contain copy protection which prevents component upscaling on most SD, HD and BD players. Oppo produced a player (the 997, I think... I never owned one but several members here have them) which I believe is still fairly easy to come by, that upconverted SD-DVDs via component.

In the case of HD-DVD and Blu-Ray, they contain an Image Constraint Token which, when activated, restricts component output of high definition media to 480p. DVI and HDMI are not affected as long as the display device is HDCP compliant. As of yet, the token has not been enabled on players so they will allow HD media to play at 1080 through component.

#7 of 19 CoolCatbro

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Posted August 25 2008 - 11:44 AM

thanks. the Oppo sounds interesting...997.

#8 of 19 JeremyErwin

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Posted August 25 2008 - 12:57 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by CoolCatbro
thanks. the Oppo sounds interesting...997.
Oppo never made a 997.

970 upconverts over component if hacked. I'm not sure about the 980 or 983.

I know that oppo's 971 has pretty shoddy component outs, and the oppo 981 omits them entirely.

#9 of 19 Clinton McClure

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Posted August 25 2008 - 08:55 PM

It might have been the 970 then. Like i said, I never owned one but heard a lot of good things about the hacked upconversion.

#10 of 19 Joseph Bolus

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Posted August 26 2008 - 01:03 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clinton McClure
In the case of HD-DVD and Blu-Ray, they contain an Image Constraint Token which, when activated, restricts component output of high definition media to 480p. DVI and HDMI are not affected as long as the display device is HDCP compliant. As of yet, the token has not been enabled on players so they will allow HD media to play at 1080 through component.

A few corrections, here:

* The Image Constraint Token (ICT) restricts the resolution over component to 540p. The idea was to provide a "better-than-DVD-experience" even for legacy HD displays that don't support HDMI.

* Every Blu-ray player ever built has the ICT circuitry built-in. All Blu-ray discs can enable ICT on a title-by-title basis. To date, no discs have been manufactured with the token raised; and no discs are expected to raise the token until 2011. (There's a so-called "gentleman's agreement" between the studios and the hardware manufacturers which states that ICT will not be implemented through 2010.)

One can only wonder how well the current Blu-ray players downscale 1080p to 540p; and how well the older 1080i HDTV's will handle upscaling 540p! Posted Image
Joseph
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#11 of 19 JeremyErwin

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Posted August 26 2008 - 04:29 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Bolus
A few corrections, here:

* The Image Constraint Token (ICT) restricts the resolution over component to 540p. The idea was to provide a "better-than-DVD-experience" even for legacy HD displays that don't support HDMI.

* Every Blu-ray player ever built has the ICT circuitry built-in. All Blu-ray discs can enable ICT on a title-by-title basis. To date, no discs have been manufactured with the token raised; and no discs are expected to raise the token until 2011. (There's a so-called "gentleman's agreement" between the studios and the hardware manufacturers which states that ICT will not be implemented through 2010.)

One can only wonder how well the current Blu-ray players downscale 1080p to 540p; and how well the older 1080i HDTV's will handle upscaling 540p! Posted Image

Well, I know that my panel doesn't handle 540p. 576p, yes, but 540p is a tad strange. My guess is that the bluray players squeeze it down to 540p, and "upconvert" the results to 1080i...

#12 of 19 JeremyErwin

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Posted August 26 2008 - 04:29 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Bolus
A few corrections, here:

* The Image Constraint Token (ICT) restricts the resolution over component to 540p. The idea was to provide a "better-than-DVD-experience" even for legacy HD displays that don't support HDMI.

* Every Blu-ray player ever built has the ICT circuitry built-in. All Blu-ray discs can enable ICT on a title-by-title basis. To date, no discs have been manufactured with the token raised; and no discs are expected to raise the token until 2011. (There's a so-called "gentleman's agreement" between the studios and the hardware manufacturers which states that ICT will not be implemented through 2010.)

One can only wonder how well the current Blu-ray players downscale 1080p to 540p; and how well the older 1080i HDTV's will handle upscaling 540p! Posted Image

Well, I know that my panel doesn't handle 540p. 576p, yes, but 540p is a tad strange. My guess is that the bluray players squeeze it down to 540p, and "upconvert" the results to 1080i...

#13 of 19 Allan Jayne

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Posted August 26 2008 - 12:25 PM

Any 1080i source can be turned into 540p quality by commingling each field with the next field, or by using each odd field twice while ignoring each even field, then continuing the processing as if nothing unusual had happened. The output video signal will behave the same as the 1080i signal that was not so downrezzed.

Any 1080p source can be turned into 540p quality by commingling every pair of scan lines, then continuing the processing as if nothing unusual had happened. The output video signal will behave the same as the 1080p signal that was not so downrezzed.

Most HDTV's will work perfectly well given official 1080i or official 540p component video (analog) signals regardless of whether the switch or menu setting (if present) is set to 1080i or 540p. I believe that there is a difference between digital 1080i versus 540p and also digital 1080p versus 540p but a player downrezzing 1080i/p will output in the same digital format of 1080i/p respectively and not in digital 540p format.

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#14 of 19 Bob Graham

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Posted August 26 2008 - 02:55 PM

I'm in the same boat, my RCA doesn't have an HDMI input, so most upconverting players can't upconvert on my set.

There is a seller on eBay called "savevinyl" that sells an HDMI to component converter. It's kind of pricey at $160. It seems to have gotten good reviews, but some have reported that it shifts the picture slightly to the left and has to be adjusted.

HKFlix has a couple of upconverting players that convert over component.

There are also a few mentioned in this thread from videohelp.com

Up-convert & component video

#15 of 19 Clinton McClure

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Posted August 26 2008 - 03:09 PM

Thanks for the corrections, Joseph. I was thinking 540 but typed 480. Not bad for only having 3 hours' sleep. :-)

#16 of 19 JeremyErwin

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Posted August 26 2008 - 03:13 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Graham
I'm in the same boat, my RCA doesn't have an HDMI input, so most upconverting players can't upconvert on my set.

There is a seller on eBay called "savevinyl" that sells an HDMI to component converter. It's kind of pricey at $160. It seems to have gotten good reviews, but some have reported that it shifts the picture slightly to the left and has to be adjusted.

HKFlix has a couple of upconverting players that convert over component.

There are also a few mentioned in this thread from videohelp.com

Up-convert & component video

This may turn out to be a bit of a gamble. Legally, such things are circumvention devices.

#17 of 19 Gregg Loewen

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Posted August 27 2008 - 04:12 AM

If your display does 480p natively, I would NOT get an upcoverting player to go to 1080i. None of the crt RPTV will resolve 1080, only about 950 when properly tweeked etc.

On a plus side...all the BluRay players will output 1080i over component but will not upconvert SD DVDs (which is quite fine for crt devices that do 480p natively).

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#18 of 19 Allan Jayne

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Posted August 30 2008 - 03:17 AM

Older CRT HDTV's are likely to be "one speed" 1080i only at the screen or "two speed" 960i/1080i (or 480p/540p if you insist and there is a switch setting). They may autoselect depending on the input. Some (including two speed autoselecting) may have no digital electronics other than the comb filter and doubler for 480i SDTV sources.

Back in those days, the biggest names in decent doublers in HDTV's were Silicon Image (DVDO) and Faroudja (DCDI). Without one of those chips or another known brand you may know and I don't recall inside the TV, you would be better off with a progressive or upscaling DVD player outputting 480p. I don't think any of the copy protect tokens (ICT's) on SDTV DVD's stop the 480i to 480p conversion in the player. The TV will do any needed upscaling of 480p to match the screen, with no regard to tokens.

Before buying an older progressive DVD player (secondhand?), do a Google search for Stacy Spears Shootout Secrets. There are a lot of older players that don't do good 480i to 480p conversion.
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#19 of 19 JeremyErwin

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Posted August 30 2008 - 04:50 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Allan Jayne
Before buying an older progressive DVD player (secondhand?), do a Google search for Stacy Spears Shootout Secrets. There are a lot of older players that don't do good 480i to 480p conversion.

found here


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