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Is Pioneer Elite in the same league as Denon or Yamaha?


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16 replies to this topic

#1 of 17 Arjcm72

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Posted August 23 2008 - 01:16 AM

Can anyone give me some real insight on this subject? I currently have a couple Denon receivers and they are great. The problem is they are some what cumbersome to set up. The yamaha recevier I have is a 2 channel for my outdoor system. It is easy to use with great sound.
I am looking for a new receiver to be used in a dedicated HT 7.2 room. Where does Pioneer Elite fit in with Denon and Yamaha? On paper it looks the same, but what is the real story?

Thank you,

#2 of 17 gene c

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Posted August 23 2008 - 03:12 AM

Can anyone give me some real insight on this subject?I'm not sure I can offer "real insight" Posted Image but I do have my opinions. I researched receivers earlier this year and even though there is no perfect receiver the Pioneer Elite 92 thx was a very strong contender. I would definently consider Elites on par with the other consumer level avr's you mentioned.
Quote:
The problem is they are some what cumbersome to set up.
All new receivers have tons of features/options that can be intimidating. The auto set-ups they have can be helpful, but occasionally in-accurate requiring a little more fine tuning. But the extra effort it takes to setup these new receivers properly is worth it.
"Everyday room": Panasonic 58" Plasma, Dish HD DVR, Pioneer Elite vsx-23, BDP-23 BR, dv58avi universal dvd player, Paradigm Studio 20 V1, CC-450, Dayton HSU-10 subwoofer.

"Movie/Music room": Toshiba 65" DLP, Dish HD receiver, Marantz 7005, CC-4003, BD-7006, Polk LSI25's-LSi7's-LSiC, 2 original Dayton 10" "Mighty-Mites" subwoofers. (subject to change without notice).
 
Also have  MB Quart Vera VS05 +.....too much to list. Help me.
 
 

 


#3 of 17 Phil_O

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Posted August 25 2008 - 12:37 PM

An A/B audition may be in order here to decide. I have heard positives about Pioneer Elite, but I love my Denon 3805.

BTW...7.2? What is this about? Posted Image I'm still on the "ancient" 5.1! I know what the 7 is, but what's the .2?
Denon 3805 | Paradigm Monitor 5's front, CC370, ADP150 rear | Mirage BPS400 sub (the "Legend" I call it! - going strong since 1998!) | Toshiba SD DVD player | Tons of DVDs/CDs! | Nad c541i CDP | Main computer has 1080p 24" monitor, Logitech 5.1 system

#4 of 17 Lew Crippen

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Posted August 25 2008 - 12:45 PM

In the same league—yes

But as in all leagues, some are contending for the playoffs and the series and some are waiting ‘til next year. The ongoing problem is that, as in sports the same team does not win every year—each new model requires a new assessment.

But not to worry too much—they all work pretty well.
¡Time is not my master!

#5 of 17 mrhtguy

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Posted August 25 2008 - 01:02 PM

i have a vsx-91 txh and IMO the pioneer elite is on par with yama and denon. the mcacc is pretty nice too. it auto sets everything decent and all i usually need to adjust are the volumes of each speaker some. i will say though that each brand has their own strengths and weaknesses and you should decide which brand suites your needs based on those strengths and weaknesses.

#6 of 17 Arjcm72

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Posted August 27 2008 - 10:43 AM

Well the 7.2 on the new Yamaha was a nice feature that almost swayed me(2 independent sub outs). But how important is THX Ultra II. Pioneer and Onkyo are the only sub 1500$ receivers I have found with this certification. I am only using this receiver for movies. I just can not get my head around what is really important and what is fluff.
I help, thanks.

#7 of 17 Arjcm72

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Posted August 27 2008 - 11:18 AM

Also, if there is a better system I am open to it. There is nothing close to my town other than a Best Buy for help. I read something posted by the member "Pink" that was interesting. For $1500 there are better ways than just going with name brand retail. Side note (Since the start of the internet, I refuse to pay retail).
I am looking for the most reliable, ease of use, great sounding system, including speakers minus subs, I can get for $10,000.
I have a 110" HD screen, an Epson powerlite pro 1080ub, and 2 sunfire d-10 subs. I also have a Samsung Blu Ray. All of this is going in a 19 x 14 dedicated theater room for movies only.
I did look at the Rotel but I did not find price or full specs.

Thanks,

#8 of 17 Lew Crippen

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Posted August 28 2008 - 12:38 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arjcm72
Well the 7.2 on the new Yamaha was a nice feature that almost swayed me(2 independent sub outs). But how important is THX Ultra II. Pioneer and Onkyo are the only sub 1500$ receivers I have found with this certification. I am only using this receiver for movies. I just can not get my head around what is really important and what is fluff.
I help, thanks.
There may be two independent sub outs, but there are no disks with independent sub tracks. The whole point of subs is that one can’t tell where the sound comes from. Sounds like marketing fluff to me—but if you have two subs to drive this could be a handy feature (even though the .2 designation is silly).

IMO the day when THX certification had value has passed.
¡Time is not my master!

#9 of 17 Philip Hamm

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Posted August 28 2008 - 01:56 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lew Crippen
There may be two independent sub outs, but there are no disks with independent sub tracks. The whole point of subs is that one can’t tell where the sound comes from. Sounds like marketing fluff to me—but if you have two subs to drive this could be a handy feature (even though the .2 designation is silly).

IMO the day when THX certification had value has passed.
Stereo sub outs. Every stereo CD and most multichannel sources can utilize this right now when you have your mains set up as small.
Philip Hamm
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#10 of 17 ltworf

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Posted August 31 2008 - 08:01 AM

i have the VSX -92TXH Pioneer Elite and I love it. My Brother has the Denon and my neighbor the Yamaha. Around the same price range. I chose the Elite over the other 2 because I'm big into movies and the quality sound I can get out of the movies. I tested a slew of movies between all 3 and found the Elite produce a more distinct separation when it came to movies like "Live frie Di Hard" "The Transformers". Don't get me wrong the others sounded amazing too.Now if your more big into music and movies is your passed time then there's no question the Denon is the way to go. You a 50/50 guy/girl then consider the Yamaha.

The one disappointment I have is I can't figure out how to get the sub working when I have the elite in Stereo mode. If anyone has any insight on that please let me know. Other than that, Wicked !!!

#11 of 17 mrhtguy

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Posted September 01 2008 - 09:10 AM

interesting, i have a vsx-91 txh which doesn't have as many bells as whistles as the 92 model but have you tried setting it to ext stereo? i believe it can be found in the surround pre-sets somewhere.

i really do not mess with stereo much but i think that mode uses the subs.

i am inclined to agree, out of the box, the music quality is ok but after some tweaking it is good. part of the lackluster performance may be because of the source. all of my music is mp3 and for the moment i am going cheap using a 2.5mm->RCA converter cable.

once i install my htpc, it will be using an optical cable and will be much better i am sure.

movie performance is very good even with a cheap dvd player. after i broke down and bought a pioneer elite dvd player to match it, the movie performance went to an excellent rating even on burned dvd's.

i can only imagine what a blu-ray would sound like on this thing.

#12 of 17 Lew Crippen

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Posted September 01 2008 - 11:08 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip Hamm
Stereo sub outs. Every stereo CD and most multichannel sources can utilize this right now when you have your mains set up as small.
True enough that stereo tracks my have low frequencies on both channels. But since the human ear can’t detect the direction of very low frequencies (below 100 hz more or less) , I’m not at all sure of the point of subs by each main channel.

There are no (as far as I am aware) CDs or DVDs with two discrete subwoofer tracks.

I remain of the belief that this is a marketing gimmick.
¡Time is not my master!

#13 of 17 Kevin Stewart

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Posted September 01 2008 - 03:24 PM

I'm a bit biased, because I have a Pioneer Elite VSX-56txi Receiver. Now, this receiver is about 4 years old and after this model, pioneer started reducing the "beef" in their receivers. I listened to a lot of receivers over the last 4 years and I've yet to hear a receiver that costs less than $2500 that sounds as good as my 56. Bummer it doesn't have HDMI or I'd never get rid of it (still probably won't, but it's a bear of a workaround). I would place current Pio Elite receivers just a tad under the 56 in terms of quality, but I'd still place them above or at least on par with a good Denon and definitely above Yamaha (I'm referring to +$1000 receivers). The only thing the Pio's aren't very good at is the interface, but once you set everything up, you rarely have to look at it again.
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#14 of 17 aht3

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Posted September 03 2008 - 02:11 PM

[quote=mrhtguy]interesting, i have a vsx-91 txh which doesn't have as many bells as whistles as the 92 model but have you tried setting it to ext stereo? i believe it can be found in the surround pre-sets somewhere.QUOTE]

I listen to XM on the Ext Stereo and IMHO, it rocks to no end. I love my 94
Pioneer VSX 94THX
JBL Studio L890s Up Front
JBL Studio LC2 at Center
JBL Studio L820s Surrounds
JBL Studio L820s RearsHSU VTF2-MK3 SubSony 46" XBR3 LCD

#15 of 17 mrhtguy

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Posted September 03 2008 - 03:10 PM

i do not doubt it. right now i believe my lack of good audio from music is more from the source than the reciever.

i am using a generic laptop, with a 2.5mm to a rca converter cable plugged into the headphone slot.

i am sure when i use my htpc with the toslink cable and the multi-channel encoding, it will be different to say the least. Posted Image

#16 of 17 TimMc

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Posted September 04 2008 - 12:12 AM

The advice to A/B if possible is spot on. I can't help too much w/ the latest models from all three 'cause I haven't been looking recently. I can comment on slightly older models and agree w/ the Pioneer "beef" comment earlier - there are older Elite models that just sounded better (and yes, I wound up w/ one that's pre-HDMI and won't upgrade simply because I like the sound so much that the minor hassle is more than worth it...). The Yamaha also works just fine too and is the processor for the 7.1 system. I wound up not getting a Denon partly because of (relative) prices and inability to hear & compare. I have heard 'em elsewhere and yup, they work - I'd place their sound as probably level with or better than the Yamaha we have.

Bottom line is that I go into the den w/ my preferred Pioneer to listen. I enjoy TV & movies and stuff in the bigger family room w/ the family & the Yamaha, but I have to admit that I clearly prefer the Pioneer room. Maybe that was because I could get everything set up just that little bit better there, or maybe it's just because the stuff sounds better when set up right?

Bottom line is that, buying new today, you should probably buy for features and an acceptable ease of use. They can all sound reasonably good and if you like how their processor sounds then you can always beef up the amplifier section with a 2x or 5x external amp.

#17 of 17 pink

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Posted September 06 2008 - 03:35 PM

Quote:
Where does Pioneer Elite fit in with Denon and Yamaha?

Thank you,[/quote]
My opinion on a scale of 1-10
Yamaha 3
denon 4
onkyo 5
pioneer elite 6


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