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ZULU - On Bluray ( UK )


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#41 of 207 OFFLINE   dannyboy104

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Posted November 07 2008 - 10:11 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by OliverK
I also received Zulu today and can confirm that the main movie is not region coded. It also has the usual Cinemascope aspect ratio of 2.35 to 1 despite having been shot in Super Technirama 70.


further insight taken from Widescreen Museum - The Technirama Wing - Page 3 showing the frame marker

Technirama® vs Super Technirama® 70 Image Sizes


There is often some misunderstanding about how much image is lost in one dimension or other when Technirama negatives make 70mm versus 35mm prints. The 35mm screen ratio was 2.35:1, as per CinemaScope, and the 70mm ratio was 2.21:1, as per Todd-AO. This is not a very great difference. Since the camera negative in the Technirama system created an image with a ratio of 2.25:1, both formats could be extracted with virtually no image loss, as clearly indicated in the sketch above. The extraction areas are so similar that it would not be necessary to use separate camera finder markings in order to protect action within the frame, though the finders actually did have such markings. Please note that the indicated areas are not the exact extraction areas used by Technicolor, they are simply an illustration of how little the difference is between the available extraction areas.

#42 of 207 OFFLINE   MarkRowley

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Posted November 07 2008 - 07:30 PM

I cannot agree with OliverK

IMO the movie looks great. I'm very happy with it
and it's certainly an improvement over the SDVD.

#43 of 207 OFFLINE   OliverK

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Posted November 07 2008 - 09:09 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by dannyboy104
further insight taken from Widescreen Museum - The Technirama Wing - Page 3 showing the frame marker

Technirama® vs Super Technirama® 70 Image Sizes


There is often some misunderstanding about how much image is lost in one dimension or other when Technirama negatives make 70mm versus 35mm prints. The 35mm screen ratio was 2.35:1, as per CinemaScope, and the 70mm ratio was 2.21:1, as per Todd-AO. This is not a very great difference. Since the camera negative in the Technirama system created an image with a ratio of 2.25:1, both formats could be extracted with virtually no image loss, as clearly indicated in the sketch above. The extraction areas are so similar that it would not be necessary to use separate camera finder markings in order to protect action within the frame, though the finders actually did have such markings. Please note that the indicated areas are not the exact extraction areas used by Technicolor, they are simply an illustration of how little the difference is between the available extraction areas.

I am very aware of the technical aspects of the format, that's why I pointed out that the aspect ratio is 2.35 and not the one that theatrical 70mm prints would have had.

I wonder why this aspect ratio would have been chosen if indeed the master created for this transfer is from the original horizontal elements, but maybe it isn't ?

#44 of 207 OFFLINE   OliverK

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Posted November 07 2008 - 09:16 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkRowley
I cannot agree with OliverK

IMO the movie looks great. I'm very happy with it
and it's certainly an improvement over the SDVD.

An improvement over the DVD is not what my yardstick is, but the best transfers out there in the Blu-Ray format. Compared to them Zulu is a big disappointment for me and it certainly does not look like film anymore. As you can still see this movie is pure eye candy and if a master was properly harvested from the original horizontal elements and put on Blu-Ray with care and with the hands off the DNR and EE buttons on the mastering equipment it could be another reference transfer.

This coming from Paramount after the quality transfers of Indy IV, Iron Man and The Godfather collection is a big disappointment for me.

#45 of 207 OFFLINE   willyTass

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Posted November 07 2008 - 10:53 PM

but it was shot on plastic , not film Posted Image

#46 of 207 OFFLINE   Danny_N

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Posted November 08 2008 - 12:40 AM

Watched it a few days ago and it looks much better than Patton. There is some DNR but not so much that fine detail is totally gone as is the case with Patton. I could easily spot fine detail in the red tunics and the actor's faces for instance (beware that the make-up is quite heavy on some actor's faces which makes their faces clayish but that's not because of DNR). Although it does look artificial to a degree, I never had the feeling that I was watching a videogame instead of film. I enjoyed the disc despite the flaws.

#47 of 207 OFFLINE   dannyboy104

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Posted November 08 2008 - 01:59 AM

I agree with the comment about the make-up with this film.The new Blu-Ray reveals the over use of make-up,which can make the actor's skin tone's look slightly odd.For instance you can now see, really clearly Michael Caine's light blue eye liner! It appears that the leads had more make up applied than the supports who tend to look more natural.
Looking towards the opening scenes,featuring Ulla Jacobsson as Margareta Witt,the BCU of the actress shows plenty of detail,making out the powder make-up on her face.(The closer shot was done in the studio and the group shot on location)
The other aspect that needs to be mentioned is the lighting,which more often than not,was achieved by three small lamps on the top of the camera,this can bring a slightly harsh and unnatural look on M/S and MCU's.
I viewed this on a 106" scope frame,1080/24p and it became clear that careful attention is needed in the colour set up,namely the reds and those tunic's.
The scene where Rev Otto Witt (Jack Hawkins) rides away with great speed with his daughter,you can see a stunt man with very large dark side burns standing in for Jack.
I couldn't detect any compression issues or EE,and would like to know where this is,to be able to view in real time.
Audio wise,there is a nice stereo spread,but this is the weak spot for this release,and could have done with a complete re-working with what remaining elements are left.

#48 of 207 OFFLINE   Jim_K

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Posted November 08 2008 - 02:45 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by OliverK
Zulu has already been aired in HD in the UK with a high bitrate H246 encoding and that is where the screenshots are from.
The airing suffered from excessive DNR and in that regard is as bad as The Longest Day if not more.

Anybody who does not like his movies that way should first wait for the reviews to come in before ordering - I know I will.

If it looks as good as or better than Grand Prix on HD-DVD I will buy it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OliverK
I also received Zulu today and can confirm that the main movie is not region coded. It also has the usual Cinemascope aspect ratio of 2.35 to 1 despite having been shot in Super Technirama 70.

So does it look as good or better than the HD of Grand Prix since you ordered it? Posted Image or did you ignore your own advise? Posted Image

As usual I'm going to have to order this myself since...well...I like to form my own opinions with my own eyes and on my own equipment. I'm crazy like that.

Anyone know if The ITV U.K. blu-ray of The Ipcress File that's getting released next week is region free?Posted Image
Death before Streaming!


#49 of 207 OFFLINE   OliverK

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Posted November 08 2008 - 03:23 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim_K
So does it look as good or better than the HD of Grand Prix since you ordered it? Posted Image or did you ignore your own advise? Posted Image

Guilty as charged but it was under special circumstances:
I got it as part of a 3 for 2 - I could not figure out anything else that I wanted so I got Zulu Posted Image

Another reason I got it is that UK titles usually do not get the same treatment with regard to reviews as US titles and I am just a sucker for large format movies - not always for my own good I admit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim_K
As usual I'm going to have to order this myself since...well...I like to form my own opinions with my own eyes and on my own equipment. I'm crazy like that.
Must be expensive some times to be you Posted Image

#50 of 207 OFFLINE   dannyboy104

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Posted November 08 2008 - 03:35 AM

I expect The ITV "The Ipcress File" to be region free,as the ITV disc's I own,have been region free so far.

#51 of 207 OFFLINE   OliverK

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Posted November 08 2008 - 04:11 AM

I will upload a few caps tonight, here is the first one:
[IMG]http://static.hometheaterforum.com/imgrepo/9/95/htf_imgcache_36212.png[/IMG][/URL]]Posted Image
The guy on the right must even have makeup on his arm and the bandage on him looks kind of pasty, too.

#52 of 207 OFFLINE   Jim_K

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Posted November 08 2008 - 04:58 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by dannyboy104
I expect The ITV "The Ipcress File" to be region free,as the ITV disc's I own,have been region free so far.

Thanks, that's good to hear. Looks like I'll be ordering this with Zulu.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OliverK
Must be expensive some times to be you

Not really, no more than anyone else. But collecting movies and home theater has never been cheap. Now if a $20 BD is going to cripple your finances then this isn't the hobby for you. Posted Image Posted Image
Death before Streaming!


#53 of 207 OFFLINE   Ed St. Clair

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Posted November 08 2008 - 05:36 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by OliverK
I think I paid about 18-20$ everything included, hard to say exactly as it was a 3 for 2 deal.
Thanks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OliverK
I will do a comparison to the DVD later and I assume that the Blu-Ray will be the preferred version despite its weaknesses, but still I would not advice to buy it due to its shortcomings.
Looking forward too that!
Thanks, again.
Movies are: "The Greatest Artform".
HD should be for EVERYONE!

#54 of 207 OFFLINE   OliverK

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Posted November 08 2008 - 09:28 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim_K
Now if a $20 BD is going to cripple your finances then this isn't the hobby for you. Posted Image Posted Image

Well in my case after that 14 ft screen, the 1080p projector and the 7.2 speaker system there is simply not enough money left for any movies Posted Image

#55 of 207 OFFLINE   OliverK

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Posted November 08 2008 - 10:29 AM

more:

[IMG]http://static.hometheaterforum.com/imgrepo/4/4f/htf_imgcache_36223.png[/IMG][/URL]]Posted Image

[IMG]http://static.hometheaterforum.com/imgrepo/2/2e/htf_imgcache_36224.png[/IMG][/URL]]Posted Image

[IMG]http://static.hometheaterforum.com/imgrepo/7/78/htf_imgcache_36225.png[/IMG][/URL]]Posted Image

[IMG]http://static.hometheaterforum.com/imgrepo/7/70/htf_imgcache_36226.png[/IMG][/URL]]Posted Image

#56 of 207 OFFLINE   Danny_N

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Posted November 08 2008 - 10:47 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by OliverK
I will upload a few caps tonight, here is the first one:

The guy on the right must even have makeup on his arm and the bandage on him looks kind of pasty, too.

Is this going to be the AVS kind of staring-at-caps-pseudo-science?
Caps only give an indication and it is very easy to pass judgement based on a few screencaps, I find myself falling in that trap sometimes but films should be watched in motion.
Yes there is some DNR and it is heavier in some scenes than in others but as a whole and in motion, Zulu looks much better than Patton. I enjoyed it fwiw.

#57 of 207 OFFLINE   CraigF

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Posted November 08 2008 - 11:03 AM

Ummm...what faults am I supposed to be looking for in those caps? They look pretty good to me...

#58 of 207 OFFLINE   OliverK

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Posted November 08 2008 - 11:14 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny_N
Is this going to be the AVS kind of staring-at-caps-pseudo-science?

I do not even know what you mean with pseudo-science. Caps can be of help for people who know how a cap relates to what they see in motion in their home theater. If you are not one of these people there is no need to even look at them.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny_N
Caps only give an indication and it is very easy to pass judgement based on a few screencaps, I find myself falling in that trap sometimes but films should be watched in motion.

I watched Zulu, too and I chose those caps in order to show that indeed an inappropriate amount of DNR has been used somewhere on the way from the film elements to the Blu-Ray of Zulu. IMO they give people who know what to look for just the right impression about what to expect from the Zulu Blu-Ray: A great movie, very nice cinematography, bold colors, DNR and EE.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny_N
Yes there is some DNR and it is heavier in some scenes than in others but as a whole and in motion, Zulu looks much better than Patton. I enjoyed it fwiw.

Patton is more even and has less EE. It might be DNR'd and degrained a little more, but the jumps in quality on Zulu make up for that in my subjective assessment. Why you think that Zulu is much better than Patton is honestly beyond me, but hey it is your opinion that counts for you.

#59 of 207 OFFLINE   OliverK

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Posted November 08 2008 - 11:20 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed St. Clair
Thanks.

Looking forward too that!
Thanks, again.

Ed, I just peeked into the DVD of Zulu that I last watched some 4 years ago and there is no comparison - the Blu-Ray is much better.

The fault of the Zulu Blu-Ray IMO lies in the fact that is falls short of what it could have been. It is still the version to get if you want to watch/own a digital copy of the movie.

#60 of 207 OFFLINE   OliverK

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Posted November 08 2008 - 11:25 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by CraigF
Ummm...what faults am I supposed to be looking for in those caps? They look pretty good to me...

You are not supposed to look for faults - if you are fine with what you see go ahead and get the Blu-Ray.
If you were sensitive to it you could see that DNR has rendered most faces in those caps rather plasticised - fine detail in faces is obscured or missing and the same goes for surfaces made of wood or stone.


Back to Blu-ray


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