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ZULU - On Bluray ( UK )


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#1 of 207 Brent Avery

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Posted August 05 2008 - 12:34 PM

I have no doubt it has been mentioned somewhere in here but just in case - over at the AVS Forum there is a thread on this film with some interesting screen shots. I do not have a direct link but it is worth checking out. Due for release on November 3.

#2 of 207 CraigF

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Posted August 05 2008 - 01:38 PM

This is something to look forward to!

I am especially interested in what form and mix the audio will take, as that was a bit of a detraction to me with the DVD. Presuming the PQ will be better than the DVD of course LOL.

#3 of 207 Ed St. Clair

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Posted August 05 2008 - 01:58 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by CraigF
Presuming the PQ will be better than the DVD of course LOL.
It better B better than a WallyWorld five buck bargain bin SD!
;-)
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#4 of 207 CraigF

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Posted August 05 2008 - 02:48 PM

What amazes me is how many of the titles available on BD are ones that have been in the bargain bins for 5 years... Not that everything in the bb is bad by any means, especially in the last couple years, but the titles I'm thinking of...nobody wanted them for cheap in SD, do they NEED them in BD? Just one of many BD things that makes me scratch my head...

#5 of 207 Edwin-S

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Posted August 05 2008 - 05:17 PM

Well, I'd buy ZULU on BD if it was properly cleaned up and restored. It's a good film.

I'd pick up ZULU DAWN as well. I like ZD as well and would like to see a properly cleaned up version of the film on BD.
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#6 of 207 Jim_K

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Posted August 05 2008 - 11:19 PM

Now this is a title worth importing! I really doubt MGM will be putting this on a US BD for a long time.
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#7 of 207 OliverK

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Posted August 06 2008 - 05:50 AM

Zulu has already been aired in HD in the UK with a high bitrate H246 encoding and that is where the screenshots are from.
The airing suffered from excessive DNR and in that regard is as bad as The Longest Day if not more.

Anybody who does not like his movies that way should first wait for the reviews to come in before ordering - I know I will.

If it looks as good as or better than Grand Prix on HD-DVD I will buy it.

#8 of 207 Douglas R

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Posted August 06 2008 - 08:43 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by OliverK
Zulu has already been aired in HD in the UK with a high bitrate H246 encoding and that is where the screenshots are from.
The airing suffered from excessive DNR and in that regard is as bad as The Longest Day if not more.

Here we go again! To counter that comment, I saw the UK HD broadcast and the picture quality was spectacular.

#9 of 207 OliverK

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Posted August 06 2008 - 09:31 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Douglas R
Here we go again! To counter that comment, I saw the UK HD broadcast and the picture quality was spectacular.

Well, DNR has been applied no matter what. If you don't mind that is good for you I guess as the colors and scenery might be a treat if you are not bothered by the DNR.

#10 of 207 Stephen_J_H

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Posted August 06 2008 - 01:12 PM

I think it's presumptuous to assume that the broadcast HD master will be used for the BD release. I'm prepared to wait and see what happens with the BD.
"My opinion is that (a) anyone who actually works in a video store and does not understand letterboxing has given up on life, and (b) any customer who prefers to have the sides of a movie hacked off should not be licensed to operate a video player."-- Roger Ebert

#11 of 207 OliverK

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Posted August 06 2008 - 05:47 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen_J_H
I think it's presumptuous to assume that the broadcast HD master will be used for the BD release.

It is rather rare that two different masters are done for ANY movie in a short timeframe so it is reasonable to assume that the broadcast and the Blu-Ray will have the same master.
This does not mean that the Blu-Ray coming from that master might not look significantly better than the broadcast version.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen_J_H
I'm prepared to wait and see what happens with the BD.

That's more or less what I suggested, just don't make that a blind buy.

#12 of 207 JulianK

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Posted August 06 2008 - 07:11 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by CraigF
What amazes me is how many of the titles available on BD are ones that have been in the bargain bins for 5 years...

Zulu's a VERY popular movie in the UK, so it's no surprise that Paramount (who own the film here) would make it one of their earliest releases.

#13 of 207 CraigF

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Posted August 06 2008 - 10:01 PM

^ Zulu is one of the good titles apparently in the bin in the U.S. (though was never there in Canada). Heck, the latest version of Manchurian Candidate was in the bin in Canada 2 weeks after it came out... I've never heard anybody say Zulu wasn't a good film. It's the tons of other long-binned titles nobody cares about and that aren't good films (or even good entertainment IMO) that are on BD at this "early" stage that's confusing to me.

#14 of 207 RolandL

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Posted August 07 2008 - 01:32 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by CraigF
^ Zulu is one of the good titles apparently in the bin in the U.S. (though was never there in Canada). Heck, the latest version of Manchurian Candidate was in the bin in Canada 2 weeks after it came out... I've never heard anybody say Zulu wasn't a good film. It's the tons of other long-binned titles nobody cares about and that aren't good films (or even good entertainment IMO) that are on BD at this "early" stage that's confusing to me.

The SD US version is bare bones with mono sound and no extras. The SD region 4 has fake Chase 2.0 surround sound, audio commentary and a documentary. Is this Blu-ray UK version region free?

Roland Lataille
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#15 of 207 Jim_K

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Posted August 07 2008 - 09:45 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by RolandL
Is this Blu-ray UK version region free?

I hope so.
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#16 of 207 Stephen PI

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Posted August 08 2008 - 05:36 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by RolandL
The SD US version is bare bones with mono sound and no extras. The SD region 4 has fake Chase 2.0 surround sound, audio commentary and a documentary. Is this Blu-ray UK version region free?

Hi RolandL. If the region 4 stereo track is the same as the region 2, it is a genuine stereo track that was created in the 60's. The film was released in mono in 1964 and a 3 or 4-Track mix was created later but not widely used until the 1974 re-release when 70mm prints were made. 35mm 4-track prints were made too as I have heard that a collector has such a print. The 2-track is a mix-down and was first used on the Nelson Entertainment(?) US VHS release in the late '80's (there was also a mono version available). When Criterion did their Laserdisc, I told them about the stereo track. They said they would use it provided it was authentic stereo. They were convinced so they used it.
Since the '80's this original 3/4-track stereo has gone missing. I tried contacting MGM and Paramount several years ago without success.
Steve Pickard

#17 of 207 dannyboy104

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Posted August 11 2008 - 11:45 AM

After some research,here is some technical info regarding the movie ZULU.

UK/World premiere 35mm mono optical print at the Plaza,Lower Regent Street,London 22/01/1964.
For the UK general release,starting 30/03/1964,in selected ABC Cinema's, 35mm prints with a 4 track stereo magnetic(Magoptical),with a standard mono optical back up track were used.The 'George' in Bellshill,Scotland in July 1964.

UK Re-release 70mm Roadshow Six track discrete (with artificial intermission inserted)*Listing.
The Casino Cinerama,Old Compton Street,London From 03/02/1972.
ABC Derby 02/1972 . ABC Hanley Cinebowl 04/1972. Regal Leamington Spa 04/1972 . Granada Bedford 05/1972 . ABC Leeds 06/1972 . Cinema East Kilbride 07/1972. Carlton Swansea 08/1972 . Perth Playhouse 09/1972 . Godiva Coventry 09/1972 . Astra Colwyn Bay 10/1972 . George Bellshill 10/1972(35MM/4 track mag) . Palladium Blackpool 11/1972 . Classic Westcliffe 01/1973 . Royal St.Ives 01/1973. Camelot Newquay 09/1973

US Premiere 35mm print, Detroit 17/06/1964 and the Gala Broadway,New York 07/07/1964.
Making movies. Making movies
Making movies.
(5th paragraph down)Making movies . The information gained from this great and well researched website seems to indicate that neither New York or Los Angeles had a 70mm release during the first year of release.

70MM Roadshow Six track discrete.
Palladium Stockholm Sweden 09/1964. Embassy Wellington New Zealand 09/1964. Embassy Auckland New Zealand 12/1964 Translux,Goblins Paris France 10/1964?. Dendy Brighton Australia 04/1967 Northland Twin 2 Melbourne Australia 06/1967. Sandrigham DI Melbourne Australia 07/1967. Forum Sydney Australia 07/1967. Constantia Cinerama,Wynberg South Africa 10/1968. Fair Lady Adelaide Australia 12/1968. Avro Garden Cinema Bulimba Australia 04/1968. Riverline DI Riverton Australia 06/1969.


Music by John Barry scored at CTS studios Bayswater in 1963,in three sessions with a seventy piece orchestra. A pre Dolby A recording,with no noise reduction. Recording Engineer was Eric Tomlinson,assistant and Tape Operator John Richards.Recorded on a Philips 3 track 1/2 tape machine(possible 35mm magnetic run simultaneously) This was then mixed down for the mono and stereo soundtrack releases.****

United Artists LP UAS 5116 stereo 1964.
United Artists LP UAL 4116 mono 1964.
Posted ImagePosted Image

The CD Zulu/Four In The Morning JOHN BARRY original soundtrack RPM 195 released in 1999 has the only available true stereo version of the original performance on CD. It has been reported that the channels are reversed,and some issue's with clipping and some distortion. There is however a wide stereo soundstage and brings the listener back to the original sound recorded at CTS in 1963.Having heard this version, I much prefer it to any re recording done since. Available from iTunes.

The original recording sessions are lost at this time.

Sound editor Rusty Coppleman
Original temp,and final the mono mix was created by Stephen Dalby at Twickenham Studios,in conjunction with J.B.Smith at MGM Borehamwood,1963.
4 track stereo mix was by Gordon K. McCallum at Pinewood Studios,in November 1963.(It's probable that only the final two reels were given the expanded treatment)
6 Track Stereo mix (using the 4 track elements to expand to the other channels)was probably done at Technicolor in 1963.L,LC,C,RC,R ***channels with mono surround.

Camera Department:
Camera's were supplied by Technicolor's European department, with an aperture of 1.480in X 0.915in using Technirama or Super Technirama 70 . Two cameras were used on location.The first of these was the main unit camera which was an adapted 3-strip camera,this used a large blimp(exclusive to European productions) to stop the noise of the camera reaching the audio track.Two or three small lamps were attached to the camera when needed.The second camera was an adapted Mitchell VistaVision unit, which was used on the 2nd unit,and also to back up the main unit. There are visual references to a 3-strip camera without the blimp,which have may been an additional 3rd camera^. Prime Lenses were by Taylor,Taylor & Hobson with a Delrama Anamorphic attachment.

Panavision provided the Micro-Panatar printer lenses^^(used to covert the 8-perf 35mm neg to a 70mm 5-perf print.)

Location shoot started on 28/03/1963 and finished on 26/06/1963 , South Africa including the Royal National Park.
Studio sequence's shot at Twikenham Studios,London on 01/07/1963,and completed on 26/07/1963,followed by some stereophonic re-recording at Pinewood Studios.
Richard Burton narration recorded in Paris 21/09/1963 am

Film Stock: Kodak 5251 50 ASA(Awaiting Confirmation)

Aspect ratio
Camera Negative 2:25:1 h 8 perf 24fps
35mm 2:35:1 v 4 24fps
70mm 2:21:1 v 5 24fps
Technirama Specifications At A Glance

Significent releases.Criterion Laser disc , 2:20:1 NTSC Letterbox, Stereo**
Posted Image
MGM NTSC Dvd , Anamorphic 2:35:1 ,mono
Paramount PAL Dvd ,Anamorphic 2:30:1, Stereo**

35mm print with 3 track, was mixed into stereo at Roger Cherries sound studio ,Dean Street,London for broadcast by the BBC in the early 1990's.

New Transfer 2007/8 commisioned jointly by Paramount and SKY

HDCAM SR 1080/25/PsF.*****Audio TK 1 Stereo left,Tk 2 Stereo Compressed Broadcast version (used for SKYHD transmission)
HDCAM SR 1080/24/P.(Atsc Rec 709 color space spec) Audio ? master for the forthcoming Blu-Ray release.(not confirmed,but probable)
Archive 2k Master(DCI color space)Audio ?(not confirmed,but probable)

NEW!! Blu-Ray menu at the BBFC ZULU rated U by the BBFC

The Paramount Home Entertainment (UK) Blu-Ray Catalogue No. BSP2034 released on 03/11/2008 and is region free for the main feature.
Video: AVC,1080p/23.976fps. Audio:Track 1 Dolby Digital 2.0 L and R spread. Track 2 Dolby Digital 2.0 Audio commentary track.
Aspect Ratio : 2:35:1
(Every Paramount Blu-Ray has been region free so far). There is a possibility that any extra's could be standard definition Pal Region code 2. Paramount now hold the worldwide rights,except the USA which is held by MGM/FOX (awaiting confirmation)

Review : Home Cinema Choice

*Intermission started at 78mins
**This was created from the original multi-track 4 track stereo master.
***70MM Mag 6 Track Discrete spec :Outer left TK1, Inner Left TK2, Centre TK3, Inner right TK4,Outer Right TK5, Surround TK 6.
****CTS Studios 3 track were normally recorded with : TK1
Strings,woodwinds,harp. TK2 Rhythm,percussion,Keyboards. TK3 Brass,horns for mix down to mono or stereo as mentioned above.This would be the source for the original LP.
***** Sourced directly from native 1080/P/24 fully graded/final edit master.
^^Micro Panatar: a series of printing lenses which allowed 35mm prints from , Ultra Panavision,Super Panavision,VistaVision,Technirama,Super Technirama,Cinemascope 55,and blow ups from 35mm neg to 65mm releases.
^I have not found any visual reference to two 3-strip cameras being used at the same time.
I can find no evidence that a 70mm print still exists.

Posted ImagePosted Image

Posted ImagePosted ImagePosted ImagePosted Image



Resources
The essential read 'ZULU with some Guts behind it ' by Sheldon hall.
Movie Collector issue 1994, IMDB,Film Score monthly with thanks to Steve Pickard,Chris Malone. Rorkesdriftvc.com. from script to dvd.com and instereo.com

#18 of 207 Jesse Blacklow

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Posted August 12 2008 - 04:48 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by RolandL
Is this Blu-ray UK version region free?
Paramount has yet to use anything but all-region/region-free on either US or foreign releases, AFAIK, so I would expect this to be the same.
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#19 of 207 Stephen PI

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Posted August 12 2008 - 11:48 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by dannyboy104
After some research,here is some technical info regarding the movie ZULU.

UK/World premiere 35mm mono optical print at the Plaza,Lower Regent Street,London 22/01/1964. 35mm mag prints with 4 track mix were later used.

UK Re-release 70mm Roadshow Six track stereo (with artificial intermission inserted)* at the Casino Cinerama,Old Crompton Street,London 03/02/1972
US Premiere 35mm print, Detroit 17/06/1964 and the Gala Broadway,New York 07/07/1964.
Sweden,New Zealand,South Africa almost certainly had 70mm on first run screening.

Music by John Barry scored at CTS studios Bayswater in 1963,with a seventy piece orchestra. A pre Dolby A recording,with no noise reduction. Recording Engineer was Eric Tomlinson. Recorded on a Philips 3 track 1/2 tape machine(possible 35mm magnetic run simultaneously) This was then mixed down for the mono and stereo soundtrack releases. United Artist LP USA 5116 was a stereo release in 1964.

The original recordings are lost at this time.

Original temp mix was created by Stephen Dalby at Twickenham Studios in 1963.
Final mono mix was performed by J.B. Smith at MGM Borehamwood,1963.
4 track stereo mix was by Gordon K. McCallum at Pinewood Studios,in November 1963.
6 Track Stereo mix (using the 4 track elements to expand to the other channels)was probably done at Technicolor in 1963.L,LC,C,RC,R channels with mono surround.

A Technicolor production using Technirama or Super Technirama 70 . Three cameras were used on location.These consisted of an adapted VistaVision camera,a converted Technicolor three strip camera and a small lightweight camera. Two small lamps were attached to the camera and large reflectors were used.Lenses were a Delrama Anamorphic attachment.

Studio sequence's shot at Twikenham Studios 07/1963,followed by some stereophonic re-recording at Pinewood Studios.Location shoot at various locations in South Africa including the Royal National Park.

Richard Burton narration recorded in Paris 21/09/1963 am

Aspect ratio
Camera Negative 2:25:1 h 8 perf 24fps
35mm 2:35:1 v 4 24fps
70mm 2:21:1 v 5 24fps

Significent releases.
Criterion Laser disc , 2:20:1 NTSC Letterbox, Stereo**
MGM NTSC Dvd , Anamorphic 2:35:1 ,mono
Paramount PAL Dvd ,Anamorphic 2:30:1, Stereo**

35mm print with 3 track, was mixed into stereo at Roger Cherries sound studio ,Dean Street,London for broadcast by the BBC in the early 1990's.

SKY HD 1080i broadcast 2:20:1? ,with Stereo,remaster commisioned jointly by Paramount and Sky.The 1080p master for the forthcoming Blu-Ray release would almost certainly have been done at the same time as the Sky version.

Review : Home Cinema Choice

*Intermission started at 78mins
**This was created from the original multi-track 4 track stereo master.
I can find no evidence that a 70mm print is still in exists.


Resources
The essential read 'ZULU with some Guts behind it ' by Sheldon hall.
Movie Collector issue 1994, IMDB,Film Score monthly with thanks to Steve Pickard. Rorkesdriftvc.com

Thanks, that is very informative.
I think the final mono (and stereo?) mix was a collaboration between Stephen Dalby (Twickenham) and J.B. Smith (MGM). Dalby, I don't think would be credited just for a temp mix, he was an experienced mixer but at that time was new to stereo mixing methods and this is the reason J.B.Smith entered the scene. I cannot find any information on exactly at what stage the stereo mix was done. (J.B.Smith was an experienced stereo mixer by this time as he had done several stereo mixes in the late '50's for Fox prior to this, e.g. "Inn of the Sixth Happiness", "Island in the Sun"). I think the stereo mix might have been done at the same time.
According to what I read, Gordon K. McCallum only mixed or re-mixed just a couple of the busy action reels. This information I took from Pinewood's sound records. I thought this was later than November, '63.
I think the stereo mix was done at first specifically for Sweden, New Zealand and South Africa and then for the UK and US (?) re-issues.
Steve Pickard

#20 of 207 OliverK

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Posted August 12 2008 - 10:28 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by dannyboy104
UK Re-release 70mm Roadshow Six track stereo (with artificial intermission inserted)* at the Casino Cinerama,Old Crompton Street,London 03/02/1972
...
Sweden,New Zealand,South Africa almost certainly had 70mm on first run screening.

I find it very strange that in the UK of all countries this was not initially released in 70mm !
On the other hand 70mm prints from 1972 would have remained in acceptable condition for a longer time which is a plus compared to the prints manufactured earlier, especially with the gradual demise of the large format productions through the sixties.

And very interesting research, thanks !


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