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Has detailed critiquing of Blu-Rays gone overboard.


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#1 of 85 OFFLINE   TonyD

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Posted July 30 2008 - 08:46 AM

the Dark City topic is an extreme example of many people
complaining about the pq and saying "not going to buy" without having seen the disc.

now over in a topic on Starship Troopers a few are saying not going to buy because someone gave the pq a 4/5 review.
are you kidding me, that's ridiculous.

mis-read what was actually posted.

also there appears to be a minor lip synch situation that may show up twice
in the ST disc. and it is being called shoddy.
the lip synch was not a problem while i watched it.
now if it was as bad as that sd dvd dts track of Moulen Rouge, that would be a serious problem.


Seems to be getting out of hand i think.
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#2 of 85 OFFLINE   Michael Reuben

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Posted July 30 2008 - 08:59 AM

It's no different than people who refused to buy a particular S-DVD because of the omission of a DTS track (remember "no DTS=no sale"?). Those people were a minority. So are those you're describing.

You know, I've posted my share of criticisms of discs here. In each case, they were discs that I owned and had viewed.

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#3 of 85 OFFLINE   Stephen_J_H

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Posted July 30 2008 - 09:43 AM

Everyone is going to have opinions, some more extreme than others. They are entitled to them, and we are entitled to ours. We are also entitled to ascribe whatever weight we wish to those opinions.

No point in trying to rein those opinions in unless they become personal attacks. In that situation, the admins are able to control the situation.
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#4 of 85 OFFLINE   Edwin-S

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Posted July 30 2008 - 10:16 AM

The only danger I see with the extreme critiquing is that studio reps, who peruse these threads, are going to start thinking that we are a bunch of whining nutters. If they start to see us in that light then the opinions being expressed are going to be heavily discounted in their eyes.
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#5 of 85 OFFLINE   DavidJ

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Posted July 30 2008 - 10:31 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Edwin-S
The only danger I see with the extreme critiquing is that studio reps, who peruse these threads, are going to start thinking that we are a bunch of whining nutters. If they start to see us in that light then the opinions being expressed are going to be heavily discounted in their eyes.

That would be the one concern that I would have. I think the discussions of the discs are valuable, but that value will be diminished if a few outliers end up getting the majority labeled as "whining nutters." I don't expect it to come to that (see Michael's comments above).

#6 of 85 OFFLINE   Paul_Scott

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Posted July 30 2008 - 10:35 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyD
now over in a topic on Starship Troopers a few are saying not going to buy because someone gave the pq a 4/5 review.
are you kidding me, that's ridiculous.
Would you be so kind as to point out where someone said they' weren't going to buy it because it was only rated 4/5' ? I do agree with you, there is something ridiculous going on here(as in subject to ridicule) but I don't think we are in accord as to what that is.

#7 of 85 OFFLINE   TonyD

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Posted July 30 2008 - 10:46 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Reuben
It's no different than people who refused to buy a particular S-DVD because of the omission of a DTS track (remember "no DTS=no sale"?). Those people were a minority. So are those you're describing.

You know, I've posted my share of criticisms of discs here. In each case, they were discs that I owned and had viewed.

M.
good point.
what i've noticed is that the good is usually outweighed by the bad, meaning when there is a problem regardless of how slight it is there tends to be a louder complaint then there is for those dvds that don't have any problems.

Or the complainers are usually more noticed then praisers(sp).

even in the review over at highdefdigest for Dark City it was mentioned.
"While New Line’s tinkering isn’t nearly as detrimental as message board doomsayers are suggesting, ..."
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#8 of 85 OFFLINE   TonyD

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Posted July 30 2008 - 10:49 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul_Scott
Would you be so kind as to point out where someone said they' weren't going to buy it because it was only rated 4/5' ? I do agree with you, there is something ridiculous going on here(as in subject to ridicule) but I don't think we are in accord as to what that is.

you're right paul somehow i combined your post with what ron said.
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#9 of 85 OFFLINE   Ed St. Clair

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Posted July 30 2008 - 12:25 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyD
Has detailed critiquing of Blu-Rays gone overoard?*
For you?
YES!
For me?
NO!

*you forgot the question mark in the title.
It is a question, isn't it?
Movies are: "The Greatest Artform".
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#10 of 85 OFFLINE   Ron-P

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Posted July 30 2008 - 12:33 PM

Quote:
Has detailed critiquing of Blu-Rays gone overoard.
IMO, yes. It's not a perfect format. Is it better then SD, yes, but some people expect the perfect image, not going to happen. Enjoy the film, don't nit-pick the quality of the image.

It's threads like "Dark City" that tell me some people will never be happy, no matter what they get. Even if it was the perfect image they'll find something wrong with it.
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#11 of 85 OFFLINE   Jim_K

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Posted July 30 2008 - 12:36 PM

When they critique discs that they haven't even seen on their own display? YES

If they form they own opinion after actually watching it? NO.

I may not concur with their assessment but they have a right to voice their opinion, even if I think they're a whining nutter. Posted Image
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#12 of 85 OFFLINE   Craig_Ehr

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Posted July 30 2008 - 12:51 PM

No.

Not when I see 1080P screen grabs that do not look like film.

Not when I see only lossy audio tracks are offered and I know full well then that the studio will revisit the title.

We have already seen with certain catalog titles what can be achieved on the format if the proper resources are made available by the studios. If the studios want my money, they will just have to work a little harder from now on.

And to all the reviewers with the knowledge, experience, and equipment to make fair, unbiased assessments of PQ/AQ (along with 1080P screen shots to back up PQ claims) I say "thank you", and "bring it on!"

#13 of 85 OFFLINE   TonyD

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Posted July 30 2008 - 12:56 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed St. Clair
For you?
YES!
For me?
NO!

*you forgot the question mark in the title.
It is a question, isn't it?

Maybe.
Posted Image
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#14 of 85 OFFLINE   Phil Menard

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Posted July 30 2008 - 01:39 PM

Sony set the bar pretty high.

"The best High Definition Picture."
"Blu-ray disc's unrivaled capacity delivers the ultimate high definition experience directly into your home."
"Beyond high definition. Pristine picture. True to the original master quality."
"Best high definition picture available with unsurpassed capacity."
***All courtesy of sonypictures.com***

That's what I want. What they said. I want what I've been promised.
And if the product is less than "...the ultimate high definition experience", I want to know. I want to be able to make an informed choice on purchasing that product, flawed (to any possible degree) or not.

#15 of 85 OFFLINE   RobertR

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Posted July 30 2008 - 01:57 PM

No. And I don't think people are demanding perfection, either. They're just demanding what they know full well the studios are easily capable of providing with the format. It's not very different from the days when people wanted widescreen DVDs to be enhanced for 16X9 TVs. That wasn't a demand for "overboard" perfection, just taking full advantage of the format.

That's all people are asking for. It amazes me that some people think that's too much to ask for.

#16 of 85 OFFLINE   Ed St. Clair

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Posted July 30 2008 - 03:00 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyD
Maybe.
Posted Image
Glad your taking all this 'junk' w/a wink & a smile!
Good thread.
Both sides have too be considered.
And we're not all the same, nor do we have all the same displays.

Hope both sides gets us better HDM.
Movies are: "The Greatest Artform".
HD should be for EVERYONE!

#17 of 85 OFFLINE   Dave Mack

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Posted July 30 2008 - 03:07 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Menard
Sony set the bar pretty high.

"The best High Definition Picture."
"Blu-ray disc's unrivaled capacity delivers the ultimate high definition experience directly into your home."
"Beyond high definition. Pristine picture. True to the original master quality."
"Best high definition picture available with unsurpassed capacity."
***All courtesy of sonypictures.com***

That's what I want. What they said. I want what I've been promised.
And if the product is less than "...the ultimate high definition experience", I want to know. I want to be able to make an informed choice on purchasing that product, flawed (to any possible degree) or not.



agreed. Wasn't there also "Beyond HD..." whatever that meant.

Many people are buying the same films over and over again. Often a VHS, then maybe an LD, then 2 or more DVD versions, (when an SE with an improved transfer is released) and now yet again, so they SHOULD do it as best as possible. We are already getting doubledips on HD. Full Metal Jacket, Casino Royale, A Xmas Story so unless we want to go through this all over again, I say people should speak up. This is supposed to be an AV enthusiasts forum where people never had a problem bringing up things such as EE in the past going back years during DVD. Lately it's the "oh well, it's better than the DVD, quit whining..." click. Look at the trainwreck that is the Gangs Of New York BD. (and yes, I've seen it) Well, that's technically "better than the DVD" too...

Posted Image

#18 of 85 OFFLINE   TonyD

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Posted July 30 2008 - 03:34 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Mack
agreed. Wasn't there also "Beyond HD..." whatever that meant.

Many people are buying the same films over and over again. Often a VHS, then maybe an LD, then 2 or more DVD versions, (when an SE with an improved transfer is released) and now yet again, so they SHOULD do it as best as possible. We are already getting doubledips on HD. Full Metal Jacket, Casino Royale, A Xmas Story so unless we want to go through this all over again, I say people should speak up. This is supposed to be an AV enthusiasts forum where people never had a problem bringing up things such as EE in the past going back years during DVD. Lately it's the "oh well, it's better than the DVD, quit whining..." click. Look at the trainwreck that is the Gangs Of New York BD. (and yes, I've seen it) Well, that's technically "better than the DVD" too...

Posted Image

agreed, seems like we're supposed to just accept things lately.
anyone who brings up these problems gets pretty much told "that'll do".
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#19 of 85 OFFLINE   PaulDA

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Posted July 30 2008 - 04:28 PM

It's not so much the complaints as the hyperbole that is sometimes tiresome.

Comments like "unwatchable" or "butchered" or the like really deflate a lot of credibility. Same applies to lossy tracks as "unlistenable". Are they really "unwatchable" and "unlistenable"? Really?

I get the disappointment with some titles. I do. I was looking forward to adding Patton on BD to my collection (it's gone from a blind buy to a rental owing to the persuasive comments from RAH, among others). But I doubt even RAH (he's free to correct me if I'm wrong, of course) would seriously say Patton on BD is "unwatchable". Because if it is, then ANYTHING on VHS should never have been bothered with (see how hyperbole becomes silly?).

Complaints are fine--if and when warranted. But it is a good rule of thumb that to complain and be credible, one should shy away from hyperbole, save in those exceedingly rare instances where extreme comments are appropriate.

As for Speed Racer, am I happy it won't be lossless? Not especially. But I doubt it will be "unlistenable". It may have dropped to a rental rather than a blind buy for me (and I'm a huge fan of the film, as well as the original), but only if I encounter reports that it is poor in the visual department as well. But that's my choice. Lossless audio is not as important to me as it appears to be to many others. I have no problem with that and I would not suggest that anyone abandon their personal principles over what they are willing to spend hard-earned money on. I would just like to see a bit less hyperbole (there's enough of that from marketers and politicians already).
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#20 of 85 OFFLINE   Michael Reuben

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Posted July 30 2008 - 04:53 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyD
agreed, seems like we're supposed to just accept things lately.
anyone who brings up these problems gets pretty much told "that'll do".
Would that include the guy who started this thread suggesting that the critiquing of BR titles has gone "overboard"?

Oh, wait a minute . . .

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