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Why are 32" displays mostly 720p?


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#1 of 50 OFFLINE   Mike Frezon

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Posted July 20 2008 - 02:33 PM

I hope this isn't too dumb of a question...but I don't know the answer.

I currently have a 26" Samsung CRT HD display (TXN2668WHF). This display can output 1080i. FWIW, I've had this display for nearly five years and am quite pleased with it's picture quality.

My current room/decor situation forces me to have a smaller display right now. But on the outside chance I ever get to upgrade (if something disastrous every happens to the current set) I know I could move up to a 32" display.

The reason I ask this question is that it seems every 32" display I look at only goes to a 720p image. Am I wrong? Why does that seem to be a limitation?

On the other hand, most 32" displays I've seen have VERY nice images--even for store displays.

Thanks!

There's Jessie the yodeling cowgirl. Bullseye, he's Woody's horse. Pete the old prospector. And, Woody, the man himself.Of course, it's time for Woody's RoundUp. He's the very best! He's the rootinest, tootinest cowboy in the wild, wild west!


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#2 of 50 OFFLINE   Patrick Sun

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Posted July 20 2008 - 03:40 PM

Probably not all that cost-effective to pack 2 megapixels into that screen size from a manufacturing standpoint, and 720p is probably good enough for 32" (and smaller) 16x9 screen sizes in terms of viewing quality (where 1080p resolution doesn't produce significantly better picture quality over 720p).
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#3 of 50 OFFLINE   Ed Moxley

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Posted July 20 2008 - 03:42 PM

I've read that you won't notice the difference between 720p and 1080p, until you get to a screen size of 60" or larger.
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#4 of 50 OFFLINE   GeorgeAB

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Posted July 20 2008 - 03:48 PM

Perceived resolution depends entirely upon viewing distance. Even 24" 1080P computer displays are widely used, but users sit very close to computer monitors. Most purchasers of 32" LCD TVs use them as televisions at seating distances that don't warrant higher resolutions they couldn't detect at such distances.

#5 of 50 OFFLINE   Mike Frezon

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Posted July 20 2008 - 04:30 PM

Thanks, everyone. I've heard that, too, about the resolution difference not being noticeable on such small screens.

I just thought ti was odd that my little 26" screen was capable of 1080i while the 32" LCDs were all at 720p.

But I guess 720p is just as good as 1080i (better, maybe?) in sets that small, eh?

There's Jessie the yodeling cowgirl. Bullseye, he's Woody's horse. Pete the old prospector. And, Woody, the man himself.Of course, it's time for Woody's RoundUp. He's the very best! He's the rootinest, tootinest cowboy in the wild, wild west!


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#6 of 50 OFFLINE   CoolCatbro

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Posted July 20 2008 - 04:31 PM

I haven't noticed any huge picture difference between my 1080i and 480p, and would suspect 720p even less difference to 1080i or p.

the large differences I noticed was HDMI from component and s-video...and also the regular TV channels to HDTV channels. that was really cool.

this thread kind of makes sense to what I heard too, in that the 1080 offers the best impact on the larger screens.

i'm a noob to HDTV and just posting what I see.

#7 of 50 OFFLINE   Zack Gibbs

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Posted July 20 2008 - 05:18 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Frezon

I just thought ti was odd that my little 26" screen was capable of 1080i while the 32" LCDs were all at 720p.

But I guess 720p is just as good as 1080i (better, maybe?) in sets that small, eh?

That's just a difference in technology. It doesn't cost anything to increase the resolution of a CRT set. With LCD the same can't be said. It was only 3-4 years ago that 1080p LCD's and plasmas even came out on the market.

Even your average 10 year old CRT computer monitors are capable of greater resolutions than most of the LCD screens sold today.
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#8 of 50 OFFLINE   Jeff Gatie

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Posted July 21 2008 - 07:01 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Frezon
Thanks, everyone. I've heard that, too, about the resolution difference not being noticeable on such small screens.

I just thought ti was odd that my little 26" screen was capable of 1080i while the 32" LCDs were all at 720p.

But I guess 720p is just as good as 1080i (better, maybe?) in sets that small, eh?

I guarantee a 26" CRT isn't capable of resolving the full resolution of 1080i. You'd be surprised at how much of the 1080i is thrown away by the limits of a direct-view CRT. It's probably closer to 800i.

#9 of 50 OFFLINE   GeorgeAB

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Posted July 21 2008 - 07:17 AM

That's correct if you're talking about consumer televisions, like Mike's. Graphics grade CRT computer monitors are another story. They have featured very high resolutions for many years prior to HDTV, and even back then could outperform most consumer HDTVs today in overall picture quality and resolution. Their primary limitations were size and light output.

#10 of 50 OFFLINE   chuckg

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Posted July 21 2008 - 08:22 AM

The thing is - you'll never sit close enough to a 26" or 32" TV to see the higher resolution. It has nothing to do with the size of the screen ,but rather the usual distance people sit to watch TV.

You sit two feet or closer to your PC screen, but nobody would sit that close to a TV.

So, they don't bother with the expense of making the smaller sets Full HD. The 720p sets look just fine on HD TV, though.
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#11 of 50 OFFLINE   DaveF

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Posted July 21 2008 - 08:33 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Frezon
I hope this isn't too dumb of a question...but I don't know the answer.

I currently have a 26" Samsung CRT HD display (TXN2668WHF). This display can output 1080i. FWIW, I've had this display for nearly five years and am quite pleased with it's picture quality.
This TV can display a 1080i signal, but that doesn't mean it actually has 1920x1080 display resolution. I did some searching out of curiosity and I couldn't find its resolution specified anywhere. Neither Samsung's users manual nor the info sheet you linked to actually stated what its screen resolution is.

I've got an HDTV a few years older, a Sony WEGA, that will display a 1080i source, but I've since learned that the TV is nowhere near having an actual 1080 resolution.

#12 of 50 OFFLINE   GeorgeAB

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Posted July 21 2008 - 08:43 AM

One of the major limiting factors for resolution in direct view CRT TVs is the shadow mask or aperture grill (Sony). The later Sony CRT direct view tubes used a super fine aperture grill that maxed out at about 1400 x 1080. To my knowledge, those were the highest resolution consumer TVs of this type ever made.

#13 of 50 OFFLINE   Mike Frezon

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Posted July 22 2008 - 12:55 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveF
This TV can display a 1080i signal, but that doesn't mean it actually has 1920x1080 display resolution. I did some searching out of curiosity and I couldn't find its resolution specified anywhere. Neither Samsung's users manual nor the info sheet you linked to actually stated what its screen resolution is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Gatie
I guarantee a 26" CRT isn't capable of resolving the full resolution of 1080i. You'd be surprised at how much of the 1080i is thrown away by the limits of a direct-view CRT. It's probably closer to 800i.

Very very interesting.

The info sheet says there is a "Maximum 800 lines horizontal resolution." Does that provide a clue or answer the question?

There's Jessie the yodeling cowgirl. Bullseye, he's Woody's horse. Pete the old prospector. And, Woody, the man himself.Of course, it's time for Woody's RoundUp. He's the very best! He's the rootinest, tootinest cowboy in the wild, wild west!


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Dieting with my Dog & Heart to Heart/Hand in Paw by Peggy Frezon


#14 of 50 OFFLINE   DaveF

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Posted July 22 2008 - 05:08 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Frezon
Very very interesting.

The info sheet says there is a "Maximum 800 lines horizontal resolution." Does that provide a clue or answer the question?
1080i is 1920 (h) x 1080 (v) (interlaced); 720p is 1280(h) x 720(v) (progressive). If I read correctly, your TV can display . I think that means your TV can physically produce about 40% of the maximum 1080 horizontal resolution, or about 62% of the 720p resolution.

This is not uncommon. For years there have been rear-projection LCD sets sold that could "display" a 1080i signal, but with LCD resolutions of about 1366x768, a shade above 720p. And I think my 2002 WEGA only goes to 800x600 physically, though it will "display" a 1080i signal as your set does.

By any measure, a 720p LCD should be a substantial improvement to you. Posted Image

#15 of 50 OFFLINE   Joseph DeMartino

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Posted July 22 2008 - 05:29 AM

All digital TVs sold in the U.S. can accept a 1080i signal. They are required to by law. But that doesn't mean they can display a 1080i image.

This is one of those meaningless specs that manufacturers like to list to make their sets sound more capable. All it really means is that you don't need an external convertor box to rescale that 1080i signal to something the TV's screen can actually display.

Even EDTVs with a maximum resolution of 480p will accept a broadcast or other signal of 1080i - which it will then immediately convert into 480p. Posted Image

Regards,

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#16 of 50 OFFLINE   Mike Frezon

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Posted July 22 2008 - 05:59 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph DeMartino
All digital TVs sold in the U.S. can accept a 1080i signal. They are required to by law. But that doesn't mean they can display a 1080i image.

This is one of those meaningless specs that manufacturers like to list to make their sets sound more capable. All it really means is that you don't need an external convertor box to rescale that 1080i signal to something the TV's screen can actually display.

Even EDTVs with a maximum resolution of 480p will accept a broadcast or other signal of 1080i - which it will then immediately convert into 480p. Posted Image

Man, am I learning a lot here! Maybe I spend too much time in the Software & Bargains forums! Posted Image

So, based on the manual and info sheet, I have NO IDEA what resolution my Samsung is giving me?!?! Posted Image That's crazy! I know it looks pretty darn good. I remember reading about five years (when I was shopping for the set) that some people thought the CRT would give a good hi-definition picture (problem-free, as it were and a clean image). That is my experience. It looks great (given it's size) but now I'm wondering exactly what I'm looking at! Posted Image

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveF
1080i is 1920 (h) x 1080 (v) (interlaced); 720p is 1280(h) x 720(v) (progressive). If I read correctly, your TV can display . I think that means your TV can physically produce about 40% of the maximum 1080 horizontal resolution, or about 62% of the 720p resolution.

This is not uncommon. For years there have been rear-projection LCD sets sold that could "display" a 1080i signal, but with LCD resolutions of about 1366x768, a shade above 720p. And I think my 2002 WEGA only goes to 800x600 physically, though it will "display" a 1080i signal as your set does.

By any measure, a 720p LCD should be a substantial improvement to you. Posted Image

Well...that's great info...for whenever I eventually get to upgrade the display! Something to look forward to! Posted Image Thanks, Joe & Dave (and everyone else, too!).

There's Jessie the yodeling cowgirl. Bullseye, he's Woody's horse. Pete the old prospector. And, Woody, the man himself.Of course, it's time for Woody's RoundUp. He's the very best! He's the rootinest, tootinest cowboy in the wild, wild west!


HTF Rules | HTF Mission Statement | Father of the Bride

Dieting with my Dog & Heart to Heart/Hand in Paw by Peggy Frezon


#17 of 50 OFFLINE   Mike Frezon

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Posted November 15 2009 - 02:53 PM


Guess what?  /img/vbsmilies/htf/biggrin.gif

I think I might be ready to take the plunge.

It's being widely reported that THIS Westinghouse 32" 720p LCD will be one of target's Black Friday doorbusters ($250). 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveF 

By any measure, a 720p LCD should be a substantial improvement to you.
Still feel that this set (besides the 6" size difference) would be an improvement over that 26" CRT HDTV linked-to in the OP?

There's Jessie the yodeling cowgirl. Bullseye, he's Woody's horse. Pete the old prospector. And, Woody, the man himself.Of course, it's time for Woody's RoundUp. He's the very best! He's the rootinest, tootinest cowboy in the wild, wild west!


HTF Rules | HTF Mission Statement | Father of the Bride

Dieting with my Dog & Heart to Heart/Hand in Paw by Peggy Frezon


#18 of 50 OFFLINE   DaveF

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Posted November 15 2009 - 03:11 PM

It's always amusing seeing these old threads pop up. I upgraded from a 36" HD WEGA (circa 2002) to a 50" 1080 Plasma. I am nothing but happy to have that monstrous CRT out of my house and replaced by a far superior flat panel. My WEGA would "display" 1080i, in that it would process the signal and display what it could on its actually 800x600 screen. It beat the stuffing out of other, SD CRTs in its day. But it is a joke compared to current flat panels.* 36" 4:3 CRT is really only about 26" 16:9; even a 32" widescreen would have been a real jump for me. And after size and real resolution improvements, getting undistorted geometry is awesome! (suck it, CRT distortion!)

So will a base model 720p 32" LCD best a 6 year old 26" CRT? If your CRT is widescreen, has no geometry problems, is modestly calibrated for color (even if by eye), and has a real resolution close to 720p, it might not be a big upgrade. I don't honestly know. But in my experience, from my dad's 32" LCD, I think I would consider it an upgrade, were it my choice.

And at $250, it's a cheap experiment and you can return it if you don't like it.


*To be a precise engineer, I'll concede that the CRT may have better absolute black and perhaps color uniformity.


#19 of 50 OFFLINE   Mike Frezon

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Posted November 15 2009 - 03:19 PM

Aw, c'mon Dave...  It's only a year-old thread!    I've been known to have a fear of commitment.

Yep.  My current set is a 16:9 26" CRT.  I think the 6" increase in viewing area is enough of a reason to take the plunge.  But I guess I'm wondering if I should see any other improvements going from CRT to LCD. 

One thing for sure.  My cabinet will be much easier to move whenever that becomes necessary (wife decides to change out the carpet again, etc.). 

There's Jessie the yodeling cowgirl. Bullseye, he's Woody's horse. Pete the old prospector. And, Woody, the man himself.Of course, it's time for Woody's RoundUp. He's the very best! He's the rootinest, tootinest cowboy in the wild, wild west!


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Dieting with my Dog & Heart to Heart/Hand in Paw by Peggy Frezon


#20 of 50 OFFLINE   Zack Gibbs

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Posted November 15 2009 - 03:52 PM

I like when I read an old thread unknowingly and come across a sharp comment that I like, only to find I made it. (I never read the names of who's talking unless they've pissed me off or said something I agree with) 

"Because he's the hero that Gotham deserves, but not the one it needs right now... and so we'll hunt him... because he can take it... because he's not a hero... he's a silent guardian, a watchful protector... a DARK KNIGHT."


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