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Suggestions for new receiver?


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27 replies to this topic

#1 of 28 Dave Moritz

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Posted April 27 2008 - 02:36 PM

This for some reason has been the hardest upgrade I have ever done in the history of my HT hobby. I am still trying to save up for the receiver that will take the place of my current Yamaha RX-V995. Maybe I am just over thinking it all or maybe I am just exspecting to much anymore?

One thing is for certain I do not want to end up with a mousy light weight receiver that will end up falling short especially in the amplifier department. This is what has been causing me to take so much time in choosing my 995's successor. I am on a budget but I do not want to compromize ether.

The receiver I end up with will have to last at least as long as my current one has, at least 10 years. My current receiver is still going strong after 10+ years and has performed well.

I am looking for the following features & qualities:
  • Exseptional build quality.
  • Very good sound quality, something can will eclips what I currently own.
  • 3 HDMI 1.3 inputs minimum.
  • 100 watts per channel minimum.
  • 7.1 Channel Receiver.
  • Dolby True HD & DTS-HD MA
  • THX Certified not manditory.
  • Must have a big enough power supply so amplifiers can put out a good amount of current.
  • 7.1 Analog Input
  • High Quality DAC's
  • Assignable Inputs
My main uses are watching SD-DVD's, HD-DVD's and Blu-ray's. And listening to CD's and some DVD-A's and SACD's. I will most likely get digital cable again sometime after the purchase of my new reciever but I am not worried about that right now. I want the video section to be solid and the audio part needs to be flawless as I am very picky about my audio.

At this point I am leaning towards the Denon AVR-3808ci and the Onkyo TX-SR805. I am willing to consider Marantz, Integra and I am not completly sure about Pioneer Elite. I do not want Sony, Sherwood, Kenwood or JVC. Sony has some new models that have alot of features and inputs but the amp sections is to mousy for my tastes. I in the past I have not been a fan of there surround modes. I would very much apreciate some input as this might help in looking at something I have not considered.

My Current HT

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My Former HT


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#2 of 28 gene c

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Posted April 27 2008 - 04:32 PM

We have different priorities but I just went thru the same agonizing process. There is no perfect avr. The pioneer 91, Onkyo 805 and the Marantz 8/7 fall a little short on video up-conversion if this is important to you. If it isn't, then the 805 just might work and could save you some money. Marantz is also too expensive and Pioneer Elite (94) didn't impress me as to build quality and the way it handles audio thru hdmi. That leaves the Onkyo 905/875 (which you have mentioned in other threads) and the 3808. The 905 seems to have it all but is several hundred dollars more than the other two. The 875 isn't bad but I don't think it passes DSD thru hdmi (again, if this is important to you). That leaves the 3808 as long as it passes the power/SQ thing. And has anyone ever regretted buying one? BTW, I went old school and picked up a used Pioneer 59txi (and dv59txi) for it's DSP processing thru the analog in's and i-link. Hope this helps, but it probably didn't Posted Image .
"Everyday room": Panasonic 58" Plasma, Dish HD DVR, Pioneer Elite vsx-23, BDP-23 BR, dv58avi universal dvd player, Paradigm Studio 20 V1, CC-450, Dayton HSU-10 subwoofer.

"Movie/Music room": Toshiba 65" DLP, Dish HD receiver, Marantz 7005, CC-4003, BD-7006, Polk LSI25's-LSi7's-LSiC, 2 original Dayton 10" "Mighty-Mites" subwoofers. (subject to change without notice).
 
Also have  MB Quart Vera VS05 +.....too much to list. Help me.
 
 

 


#3 of 28 Ron-P

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Posted April 27 2008 - 06:38 PM

I have an 805 hitting my doorstep on Tuesday, $683 to my door from Amazon. I just bought the 705 and am sending it back, for not much more the 805 is a much bigger beast. I'm going to test it solo but I have 5 Adcom 535s that I run so most likely I'll be keeping those but I do want to compare how the AVR compares to separates.
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#4 of 28 Dave Moritz

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Posted April 28 2008 - 12:08 AM

Quote:
The pioneer 91, Onkyo 805 and the Marantz 8/7 fall a little short on video up-conversion if this is important to you.

Could you be a little more specific? Is it only an issue just involving the HDMI section or does it involve component to HDMI etc.... ?

What where your impressions of the best audio on what receivers?


Quote:
There is no perfect avr.

It seems like just about every brand has some quirks so I think your right on that one.

Quote:
he 875 isn't bad but I don't think it passes DSD thru hdmi (again, if this is important to you).

This particular thing is not a problem because I would be using my Denon DVD-2200 for DVD-A and SACD. And it does not have HDMI so I would not have an issue with the 875 in this particular area.


The one thing that drives me crazy about my current avr is that it has no component video switching. It has worked great for over 10 years but it is time to update it and upgrade it.

Quote:
I have an 805 hitting my doorstep on Tuesday, $683 to my door from Amazon.

I have seen that price as well which is better than my local Fry's @ $999. And I think I saw the 805 for as low as $638 but I do not remember which online place it was. The only thing I worry about reguarding buying it online is what if something goes wrong with the 805? If I buy it from a local retailer I know I can have it swaped out in less than 1 hour. Are the Amazon 805's new or are they refurberbished?
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#5 of 28 Ron-P

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Posted April 28 2008 - 04:26 AM

You can buy new or used from Amazon, I bought new. The 805 is covered by a 2 year parts / labor warranty and I have no store in my area that will swap out a receiver if mine crashes. But I do have several back-ups plus my Outlaw 950 pre/pro that I can use if something happens.
You have all the weapons you need...Now fight!


#6 of 28 Dave Moritz

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Posted April 28 2008 - 04:57 AM

I am not worried about not having a back up ether as I will be keeping my Yamaha RX-V995. After I purchase the new receiver the Yamaha will get hooked up to my PC and that will get transformed into a 100 watt X 5 HTPC. Posted Image I just am not crazy about the idea of having to pay to ship it just because I purchased it online. But then if nothing goes wrong I have save alot of money by switching to Geico. Posted Image
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#7 of 28 ManW_TheUncool

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Posted April 28 2008 - 05:39 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron-P
I have an 805 hitting my doorstep on Tuesday, $683 to my door from Amazon. I just bought the 705 and am sending it back, for not much more the 805 is a much bigger beast. I'm going to test it solo but I have 5 Adcom 535s that I run so most likely I'll be keeping those but I do want to compare how the AVR compares to separates.

Would love to hear how this works out for you as I seem to be in the same boat (w/ my B&K 5-channel amp). As far as I can tell, Brent seems to like using his 805 in this way hooked up to his Adcom 5-channel amp. I guess going this route will also minimize concerns about overheating too since we wouldn't be using the 805's power amp section.

As you might've noticed by now, I've also been considering the Yammy 663 for this purpose. I wonder though if the Yammy isn't more musical than the Onkyo for this purpose -- but maybe less punch for general HT use (and missing the benefits of the Audyssey setup)...

_Man_
Just another amateur learning to paint w/ "the light of the world".

"Whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, dwell on these things..." (St. Paul)

#8 of 28 Dave Moritz

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Posted April 28 2008 - 10:16 AM

Quote:
As far as I can tell, Brent seems to like using his 805 in this way hooked up to his Adcom 5-channel amp. I guess going this route will also minimize concerns about overheating too since we wouldn't be using the 805's power amp section.

Even if you do not use the internal amplifiers on the Onkyo it still seems to put out a good deal of heat anyway. I have noticed at a retailer that even with the 805 sitting idle the top still felt really warm.
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#9 of 28 ManW_TheUncool

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Posted April 28 2008 - 10:40 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Moritz
Even if you do not use the internal amplifiers on the Onkyo it still seems to put out a good deal of heat anyway. I have noticed at a retailer that even with the 805 sitting idel the top still felt really warm.

Is there no way to defeat the amp section when using it in prepro mode? Given that the 805 (and up) is designed w/ a cleaner separation between prepro and amp sections, I would've thought that should be possible -- but maybe one has to pay a good deal more to actually get such a "feature" included. Posted Image

_Man_
Just another amateur learning to paint w/ "the light of the world".

"Whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, dwell on these things..." (St. Paul)

#10 of 28 gene c

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Posted April 28 2008 - 11:07 AM

Quote:
The pioneer 91, Onkyo 805 and the Marantz 8/7 fall a little short on video up-conversion if this is important to you.
Quote:
Could you be a little more specific? Is it only an issue just involving the HDMI section or does it involve component to HDMI etc.... ?
The Marantz 8002/7002 only convert 480i to 480P, no higher. The 805 only converts analog sources (such as component) to 720P, not 1080P. Vanns has the silver 805 for $699 shipped, J&R the black one for the same price. As for Pioneer, first of all a correction. I meant the Pioneer Elite 92, not the 91. Opps!. As I recall, the 94 up-converts (or scales, or whatever it's called) pretty much everything to 1080P out the hdmi. But there was something about the 92 that made me suspect it wasn't up to par with the 94, but I'll be d*mned if I can remember what it was. A quick check of the manual (and Vanns.com) leads me to believe I was mistaken. But I do vaguely remember something that was'nt Kosher...My biggest issue with Pioneer was, according to a CSR, they route the audio signal in from hdmi straight to the 6/8 ch analog in's which means it bypasses B/M bass/treble controls and MCAAC. Perhaps an Elite owner can verify this.
It also was rated at only 84wpc by S&V, but they liked it anyway.
"Everyday room": Panasonic 58" Plasma, Dish HD DVR, Pioneer Elite vsx-23, BDP-23 BR, dv58avi universal dvd player, Paradigm Studio 20 V1, CC-450, Dayton HSU-10 subwoofer.

"Movie/Music room": Toshiba 65" DLP, Dish HD receiver, Marantz 7005, CC-4003, BD-7006, Polk LSI25's-LSi7's-LSiC, 2 original Dayton 10" "Mighty-Mites" subwoofers. (subject to change without notice).
 
Also have  MB Quart Vera VS05 +.....too much to list. Help me.
 
 

 


#11 of 28 gene c

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Posted April 28 2008 - 11:10 AM

Quote:
I have noticed at a retailer that even with the 805 sitting idel the top still felt really warm.
Quote:
Is there no way to defeat the amp section when using it in prepro mode?
My guess is that it's more than the amp that generates the heat. My DVR's get pretty warm too.
"Everyday room": Panasonic 58" Plasma, Dish HD DVR, Pioneer Elite vsx-23, BDP-23 BR, dv58avi universal dvd player, Paradigm Studio 20 V1, CC-450, Dayton HSU-10 subwoofer.

"Movie/Music room": Toshiba 65" DLP, Dish HD receiver, Marantz 7005, CC-4003, BD-7006, Polk LSI25's-LSi7's-LSiC, 2 original Dayton 10" "Mighty-Mites" subwoofers. (subject to change without notice).
 
Also have  MB Quart Vera VS05 +.....too much to list. Help me.
 
 

 


#12 of 28 Brent_S

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Posted April 28 2008 - 11:36 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by gene c
My guess is that it's more than the amp that generates the heat. My DVR's get pretty warm too.

Correct. With the 805, it's the preamp section that appears to be generating the heat that everyone mentions. Per the internal temp probes, in a converted armoire with 5" above, 7" to either side, open back, closed front (doors)...I've seen as high as 56°C. That's still well below the fan trigger threshold of 69°C. For peace of mind, I cobbled together a couple of 140mm computer fans on a wall wart and layed them flat over the preamp section. The probes still read low-mid 40s, but touching the 805 top panel suggests a more signficant temp reduction than the numbers indicated.

When used as a prepro, the amp section will be driving an infinite load, which will probably generate a little more heat than being at true idle, but it should still be an insignificant amount. I'm not aware of any receiver that will completely shut down its amplifier section in preamp only mode.

-Brent

#13 of 28 Dave Moritz

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Posted April 28 2008 - 11:52 AM

I would like to thank everyone for the good information. I need to get some cash together as money is tight right now. So I may end up with a Black Onkyo TX-SR805. If I can scrap up alot more than it depends, it could be a Black Onkyo TX-SR857 or a Denon AVR-3808ci. That is what I am looking at so far and a very slim chance of a Onkyo TX-NR905. I am not going to rush it but am trying to budget it so I can still buy a Blu-ray title or two every month if possible.

If anyone else has some input I would love to hear it.

I caught myself today trying to picture both the Denon 3808 and the Onkyo 805 in my HT rack. Posted Image
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#14 of 28 Philip Hamm

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Posted April 29 2008 - 07:10 AM

Accessories4less has some good deals on refurbished and overstock Onkyo gear. Posted Image
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#15 of 28 Dave Moritz

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Posted April 29 2008 - 08:02 AM

Hey Philip have yourself or anyone else here purchased gear from Acessories4less? If so did you have any problems and did they take care of the problem? I am looking at there prices and am actually considering buying a reconditioned unit because money is so tight and because the prices are so good. I could actually afford a recoditioned Onkyo 905, mmmmmmmmmm.
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#16 of 28 ManW_TheUncool

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Posted April 29 2008 - 09:07 AM

Hmmm... Considering the "space heating" issue w/ the Onkyo 805-and-up, would you really want a reconditioned 905? Hmmm...

_Man_
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#17 of 28 Brent_S

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Posted April 29 2008 - 09:40 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Moritz
Hey Philip have yourself or anyone else here purchased gear from Acessories4less? If so did you have any problems and did they take care of the problem? I am looking at there prices and am actually considering buying a reconditioned unit because money is so tight and because the prices are so good. I could actually afford a recoditioned Onkyo 905, mmmmmmmmmm.

I'm not Philip nor have I purchased from Accessories4Less, but a number of folks in the AVS threads on the 705/805 have been happy with them. The most important thing is they are Onkyo authorized so you get a factory warranty (reduced one year due to refurb).

Don't forget to sign up at ShopOnkyo.com. When you're registered, you'll see better prices than you get just browsing. When I was stalking the 805 and considering refurb units, ShopOnkyo member pricing tended to be the same or lower priced than A4L and they somtimes throw in incentives...at one point it was free stereo receiver.

-Brent

#18 of 28 gene c

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Posted April 29 2008 - 09:53 AM

Quote:
or anyone else here purchased gear from Acessories4less? If so did you have any problems and did they take care of the problem?
I bought an Onkyo HT-500 refurb-with factory warranty-about 5 years ago. Looked and performed as good as new. Also, a pair of Mourdant-Short 902's which I later gave to a friend, and at least one other thing which has apparently slipped my mind. No issues with any of it. But read their descriptions closely. It's sometimes hard to tell what's a refurb and what isn't. BTW, the 905 was very high, at the top actually, of my list of new ones but I thought $1700 (at the time) was a bit to much.
"Everyday room": Panasonic 58" Plasma, Dish HD DVR, Pioneer Elite vsx-23, BDP-23 BR, dv58avi universal dvd player, Paradigm Studio 20 V1, CC-450, Dayton HSU-10 subwoofer.

"Movie/Music room": Toshiba 65" DLP, Dish HD receiver, Marantz 7005, CC-4003, BD-7006, Polk LSI25's-LSi7's-LSiC, 2 original Dayton 10" "Mighty-Mites" subwoofers. (subject to change without notice).
 
Also have  MB Quart Vera VS05 +.....too much to list. Help me.
 
 

 


#19 of 28 Brent_S

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Posted April 29 2008 - 10:00 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Man-Fai Wong
Hmmm... Considering the "space heating" issue w/ the Onkyo 805-and-up, would you really want a reconditioned 905? Hmmm...

_Man_

I haven't followed the 905 threads to know for sure, but from the specs, I see no reason to expect the temperatures to be significantly different from the 805 to 905. Spec'd power consumption is only 0.1 amps higher than the 805. In theory, the 905 could even run cooler.

Toroidal transformers are more efficient than the EI type in the 805, which is probably why the 905 can produce a bit more output power with minimal increase in consumption..

The Reon *could* be a more efficient power consumer than the Faroudja chip. More efficiency results in less energy wasted as heat.

The extra HDMI ports and ethernet connection probably add a little additional heat to the 905 since they don't have an equivalent in the 805.

-Brent

#20 of 28 ManW_TheUncool

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Posted April 29 2008 - 10:24 AM

Brent,

Is ShopOnkyo.com Onkyo's official online store (kinda like SonyStyle.com for Sony)?

Thanks.

_Man_
Just another amateur learning to paint w/ "the light of the world".

"Whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, dwell on these things..." (St. Paul)


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