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Birds of Prey: The Complete Series Announced!


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#41 of 122 OFFLINE   LizH

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Posted April 24 2008 - 09:30 PM

As cheap as The Why Bother? Network was, I wouldn't be surprised if it DID originally air in matted widescreen.


Quote:
Originally Posted by troy evans
I agree and disagree here. I think that the studio should have made this release anamorphic, but they didn't. It would have made sense in the fact that it would be future proof, but they don't seem to care. I don't believe most people have widescreen tvs yet. In the next few years, yes, but not yet. There are still people buying up these damn fullscreen releases even when a widesreen anamorphic release is available. That alone shows that most people do not have widescreen tvs yet. Unless they are complete dumbasses and watch fullscreen content on widescreen tvs for no good reason.



Most people aren't the A/V nerds that we are.

As far they're concerned, TV is something you watch Seinfeld reruns on ... lol.

#42 of 122 OFFLINE   Daryl L

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Posted April 25 2008 - 09:53 AM

Most people may still own fullscreen tv's or maybe not but the fact BrandonJF pointed out
Quote:
Were it anamorphic, those without widescreen displays would never know the difference between anamorphic/non-anamoprhic.
still shows they could have catered easily to both widescreen and fullscreen owners. Instead they screwed the widescreen owners. As bad as I wanted this set since the show was canceled (Fastlane too) I can't get either. Without zoom mode on my tv I'm stuck watching it letterboxed with sidebars or letterboxed without sidebars (stretched horizontally) and that would drive me nuts and I couldn't enjoy watching it. No BOP or Fastlane for me. Posted Image
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#43 of 122 OFFLINE   Rick P

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Posted April 25 2008 - 10:20 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by troy evans
Wow! You understood what I was trying to say. Thank You. Warner doesn't care. Plain and simple. Just be glad that we got it.

Wrong. This shows an INCREDIBLE amount of either STUPIDITY or IGNORANCE of their property and the market (David, if you are passing any of this back, you may quote me EXACTLY). The VAST majority of the TV's sold today are widescreen,so making this non-anamorphic, matted lbx is LEAVING THOSE PEOPLE OUT IN THE COLD. A vast many of the sets won't do a zoom if you are connected HDMI (which is what most DVD players are connected to widescreens are). The cost of getting a 16:9 re-encode of this would easily be countered by extra sales, both of the set and possible broadcast sales in 16:9.

I won't be glad "I got it" till I make the effort to 'get it right' this isn't due till July. This is April. I'll make book that the discs are not pressed yet. Hell I'll make book they aren't even mastered. There is still time for them to correct this STUPDITY.

The Invisible Man (from Scifi) was never broadcast matted or wide anywhere, but we got it 16:9 on DVD. Relic Hunter was filmed wide, never shown wide, but the UK release of the second season was released 16:9 (and it looks like that was meant to be seen that way). Witchblade had a couple of eps shown matted, but it's getting the 16:9 treatment from the way it was filmed. Hell's Bells, even 'Greg the Bunny' was filmed wide and shows wide on HDNet, but cropped everywhere else.

Today, releasing a show matted LBX when it was filmed wide is IRRESPONSIBLE and IDIOTIC, it would look the same on a 4:3 set when it's 16:9 Anamorphic as matted LBX, but 100 time better on a 16:9 set.

#44 of 122 OFFLINE   cart99

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Posted April 25 2008 - 02:47 PM

Couldn't agree more with Rick P.

#45 of 122 OFFLINE   troy evans

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Posted April 25 2008 - 08:01 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick P
Wrong. This shows an INCREDIBLE amount of either STUPIDITY or IGNORANCE of their property and the market (David, if you are passing any of this back, you may quote me EXACTLY). The VAST majority of the TV's sold today are widescreen,so making this non-anamorphic, matted lbx is LEAVING THOSE PEOPLE OUT IN THE COLD. A vast many of the sets won't do a zoom if you are connected HDMI (which is what most DVD players are connected to widescreens are). The cost of getting a 16:9 re-encode of this would easily be countered by extra sales, both of the set and possible broadcast sales in 16:9.

I won't be glad "I got it" till I make the effort to 'get it right' this isn't due till July. This is April. I'll make book that the discs are not pressed yet. Hell I'll make book they aren't even mastered. There is still time for them to correct this STUPDITY.

The Invisible Man (from Scifi) was never broadcast matted or wide anywhere, but we got it 16:9 on DVD. Relic Hunter was filmed wide, never shown wide, but the UK release of the second season was released 16:9 (and it looks like that was meant to be seen that way). Witchblade had a couple of eps shown matted, but it's getting the 16:9 treatment from the way it was filmed. Hell's Bells, even 'Greg the Bunny' was filmed wide and shows wide on HDNet, but cropped everywhere else.

Today, releasing a show matted LBX when it was filmed wide is IRRESPONSIBLE and IDIOTIC, it would look the same on a 4:3 set when it's 16:9 Anamorphic as matted LBX, but 100 time better on a 16:9 set.
Well first off, not everyone has widescreen tvs. I don't know how many times I have to say that. Just because all current tvs that are being sold are widescreen does not translate into everyone or even most have them. I know several people who still have their good old CRT sets. Now, tell me where you found proof that the show was in fact filmed in anamorphic widescreen and not matted to begin with? See, that's the big question here. If the studio has a 4:3 print that they have matted( which is basically what they have stated) then why believe it was shot any other way? Now, if they used super 35, then, they would have been able to extract both fullscreen and widescreen from it. If that is in fact the case, you're correct, Warner's move is stupid. What if it's the only available print they have (for whatever reason) and their trying to please the widescreen fans here? Prints don't last forever and a cancelled show( which for all intents and purposes would have never came out without the new film) more than likely didn't get top drawer treatment in any vault to begin with. Now, to be real, the print that's coming is what's coming. No amount of bitchin and moanin to Warner is going to change that. You can do what you like, I can't see the outcome being any different then it already is. Those are the facts. We're two months from this coming out, so I'm affraid they have already started to press dvds for this to meet orders for stores. They aren't going to wait to press dvds for a month because a few people are pissed about widescreen. Just as an example, by the time a movie hits theaters they have already begun production on dvds which come out 4 to 5 months later. Also, their not going to miss their tie-in with the new movie, which again, is the only reason these dvds are coming. I have waited sooooo long for this show and I'm happy as hell it's finally coming. Regardless of the widescreen issue. If the issue has pressed you to not buy the dvds, fine. I'm a fan and will gladly take them. This issue is not that big a deal to me. I'm sorry.
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#46 of 122 OFFLINE   LizH

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Posted April 26 2008 - 02:22 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by troy evans
Prints don't last forever and a cancelled show( which for all intents and purposes would have never came out without the new film)


That ... and the BOP fandom lobbying Warner for six years. Posted Image

#47 of 122 OFFLINE   Rick P

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Posted April 26 2008 - 04:10 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by troy evans
Now, tell me where you found proof that the show was in fact filmed in anamorphic widescreen and not matted to begin with?

YOU TELL ME WHERE I SAID IT WAS FILMED ANAMORPHIC WIDESCREEN. I said it was filmed widescreen. However, given the time frame this show came out, YOU PROVE TO ME that is was NOT filmed anamorphic. Who in their right mind would compose and film matted with HD broadcast on the horizon, and again, look at the other shows what have 'turned up' Anamorphic wide (see: Greg the Bunny, Invisible Man, Witchblade, TREMORS: The Series, etc, etc.. DO NOT make such a specious argument to attempt to justify STUPIDITY)

Quote:
See, that's the big question here. If the studio has a 4:3 print that they have matted( which is basically what they have stated) then why believe it was shot any other way? Now, if they used super 35, then, they would have been able to extract both fullscreen and widescreen from it. If that is in fact the case, you're correct, Warner's move is stupid. What if it's the only available print they have (for whatever reason) and their trying to please the widescreen fans here?

Or the more likely reason, they have a 4:3 matted BROADCAST PRINT and are either a) too lazy, b) too stupid, c) too cheap, d) all of the above to go back to the masters for this.

Quote:
Prints don't last forever

Thank you, you just gave the best reason to let Warners this needs to be done RIGHT.

Quote:
You can do what you like, I can't see the outcome being any different then it already is. Those are the facts.

Not with a 'bend over and say "thank you sir, may I have another" ' attitude like that.

Quote:
We're two months from this coming out, so I'm afraid they have already started to press dvds for this to meet orders for stores. They aren't going to wait to press dvds for a month because a few people are pissed about widescreen.

To quote Harlan Ellison: "Bovine Stuff".

Quote:
I'm a fan and will gladly take them. This issue is not that big a deal to me. I'm sorry.

So am I, and I will raise holy hell about it until they are in my hands. And if it becomes necessary, I have the tools and the knowledge to fix this ex post facto for my own benefit.. but I should not have to and neither should anyone else.

Addendum: yes, nothing can be changed, like the Invaders release now having the longer version of the pilot.

#48 of 122 OFFLINE   troy evans

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Posted April 26 2008 - 06:06 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick P
YOU TELL ME WHERE I SAID IT WAS FILMED ANAMORPHIC WIDESCREEN. I said it was filmed widescreen. However, given the time frame this show came out, YOU PROVE TO ME that is was NOT filmed anamorphic. Who in their right mind would compose and film matted with HD broadcast on the horizon, and again, look at the other shows what have 'turned up' Anamorphic wide (see: Greg the Bunny, Invisible Man, Witchblade, TREMORS: The Series, etc, etc.. DO NOT make such a specious argument to attempt to justify STUPIDITY)
I don't have to prove a damn thing to you. You are the one saying this should have been released for anamorphic widescreen tvs. I'm asking how anyone knows what the hell the OAR is in the first place. It may very well have been matted in it's original broadcast.
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#49 of 122 OFFLINE   troy evans

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Posted April 26 2008 - 06:15 PM

Removed
" I think it's time we go to plan B". "What's plan B?" "That's the one where we don't do something stupid".

#50 of 122 OFFLINE   troy evans

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Posted April 26 2008 - 06:16 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick P
they have a 4:3 matted BROADCAST PRINT and are either a) too lazy, b) too stupid, c) too cheap, d) all of the above to go back to the masters for this.
If that's the case, then yes and I agree completely.
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#51 of 122 OFFLINE   LizH

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Posted April 26 2008 - 06:16 PM

I talked to Gord Lacey over at TVShowsOnDVD.Com:


>>>Elizabeth H has sent the following email:
>Was "Birds of Prey" originally broadcast in matted widescreen?
>
>There's some concern among the fans that we're getting a butchered
>DVD version of a show that was supposedly broadcast in anamorphic
>widescreen.
>
>I would appreciate any help that you had to offer.

All I know is that it was broadcast here in 1.33:1, but may have been
broadcast overseas in some form of widescreen; I don't know what
though. What it comes down to is Warner Bros having matted widescreen
masters, so that's what they're releasing.

Gord<<<



Apparently the show was originally broadcast in 1.33:1.

Sorry, guys. Posted Image

#52 of 122 OFFLINE   troy evans

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Posted April 26 2008 - 06:22 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick P
Not with a 'bend over and say "thank you sir, may I have another" ' attitude like that. So am I, and I will raise holy hell about it until they are in my hands. And if it becomes necessary, I have the tools and the knowledge to fix this ex post facto for my own benefit.. but I should not have to and neither should anyone else.

Addendum: yes, nothing can be changed, like the Invaders release now having the longer version of the pilot.
So after all your complaining you still intend to buy it? You have the nerve to say I'm bendin over? That's a joke. The original pilot is in fact on the BoP release. So, what's your point? Man, if you're just venting, fine. However, some of this is coming across pissy. Now, I don't mind people getting pissed, but, not over a fucking dvd release. Come on, it's not the end of the world. Take a breath.
" I think it's time we go to plan B". "What's plan B?" "That's the one where we don't do something stupid".

#53 of 122 OFFLINE   troy evans

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Posted April 26 2008 - 06:26 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by LizH
I talked to Gord Lacey over at TVShowsOnDVD.Com:


>>>Elizabeth H has sent the following email:
>Was "Birds of Prey" originally broadcast in matted widescreen?
>
>There's some concern among the fans that we're getting a butchered
>DVD version of a show that was supposedly broadcast in anamorphic
>widescreen.
>
>I would appreciate any help that you had to offer.

All I know is that it was broadcast here in 1.33:1, but may have been
broadcast overseas in some form of widescreen; I don't know what
though. What it comes down to is Warner Bros having matted widescreen
masters, so that's what they're releasing.

Gord<<<



Apparently the show was originally broadcast in 1.33:1.

Sorry, guys. Posted Image
Thanks Liz. That's what I suspected. So we're getting it in its true aspect ratio, just with black bars over some of the image. Oh well.
" I think it's time we go to plan B". "What's plan B?" "That's the one where we don't do something stupid".

#54 of 122 OFFLINE   Rick P

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Posted April 26 2008 - 08:04 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by LizH
I talked to Gord Lacey over at TVShowsOnDVD.Com:

What it comes down to is Warner Bros having matted widescreen
masters, so that's what they're releasing.

Apparently the show was originally broadcast in 1.33:1.

Liz...

the question has NEVER been what it was BROADCAST in, I know it was broadcast 1.33:1 MATTED LBX. I have DVD-R recordings from a) the WB broadcasts, b) SPACE (canada) and c) SHOWCASE ACTION (canada) and they were all 1.33:1 matted LBX.

I am ACTIVELY trying to determine if it was broadcast overseas in 'true' 16:9 (it was shown on the UK and OZ and I'm on the trail).

The point I've been TRYING to make is that I would find it INCONCEIVABLE that this was FILMED matted (2002) when I can track back shows to 2000 that were properly done. Cases in point:

#1 Greg the Bunny: 2002, BROADCAST 4:3, DVD release 4:3. About a year later it turned up on HDNet in 16:9 Anamorphic HD. An anamorphic 16:9 master existed. Yet it wasn't used for the DVD.

#2 Relic Hunter: 1999, WELL predates BoP, ONLY shown in 4:3 in the US and Canada and UK. Season 2 was released in the UK in 16:9. The pathetic US/Canada releases were 4:3. Anamorphic Masters (at least for season 2, by inference season 3, season 1 unk) Exist.

#3 Tremors: The Series: 2003 Only broadcast in the US/Canada in 4:3, recently turned up on Amazon Unboxed, the version for Tivo downloads are 4:3 Matted LBX (not cropped, I compared, absolutely more image). The versions that Amazon Unbox d/l's to you PC are 16:9. go figure.

#4 Starhunter: (the original) 2001. Shown 4:3 in the US/Canada syndication. All DVD releases 4:3. I have 16:9 recordings from a UK broadcast in 2005. Again, NOT CROPPED. Full 16:9

#6 The Invisible Man: (scifi channel, 2000), AFAICD only shown 4:3 in US/Canada/UK. Season 1 just released in 16:9 Anamorphic.

#7 Witchblade: (2000) absolutely filmed wide, several eps shown in matted LBX, REPORTED to be coming out in 16:9 anamorphic (unconfirmed).

#8 HOUSE, season 1: Shown on FOX HD in 16:9 *anamorphic*. Released on DVD in the US/UK/Germany/France/OZ in 4:3 matted LB, released on DVD in Japan 16:9 ANAMORPHIC.

#9 Andromeda: 2000, subject of the 'fake widescreen' topic. Filmed 16:9 from day one. Syndicated broadcasts in 4:3, DVD release 16:9

#10 Mr Bean: The Animated Series: UK Broadcasts 16:9 anamorphic. CBC Broadcasts 4:3 Cropped. UK DVD Release 16:9 Anamorphic. US DVD Release 4:3 cropped APPARENTLY AT THE REQUEST OF A&E (did the dvd release) they didn't WANT the 16:9 (another one of those 'go figure').

Shall I continue?

I have no doubt Warner told Gord that they had matted masters. However I still call bovine stuff on Warner.

Either

a) they don't know they have a 16:9 master (IGNORANCE)
b) they won't use it (STUPIDITY or ARROGANCE)
c) they screwed up and used the matted master for the discs and now won't change it (ARROGANCE)
d) for some reason beyond all intelligence and forethought they wiped the 16:9 masters or never made them (IGNORANCE and STUPIDITY) I seriously doubt that.

I can forgive a) if they fix it before they release it. b) and c) are not forgivable and I would HOPE that BoP fandom hits Warner HARD about this to try to fix it. I can agree that there will be one and only one release.. so for pete's sake, get it right the 1st time.

#55 of 122 OFFLINE   whisperintherain

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Posted April 26 2008 - 11:09 PM

This is really much ado about nothing. Rick, I don't mean to offend you, but you're getting ridiculously upset about this. As already stated, it is a DVD release, for crying out loud. The world has far more important issues. Can't you just be glad the show is getting a release at all? Either you're a fan of the show and decide to support it by getting a copy, or you're not and you don't, simple as that. No need to scream blue murder for months about the aspect/ratio, which I suspect most of the buying public doesn't give a rat's ass about.
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#56 of 122 OFFLINE   LizH

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Posted April 26 2008 - 11:51 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick P
Liz...

the question has NEVER been what it was BROADCAST in, I know it was broadcast 1.33:1 MATTED LBX. I have DVD-R recordings from a) the WB broadcasts, b) SPACE (canada) and c) SHOWCASE ACTION (canada) and they were all 1.33:1 matted LBX.

I am ACTIVELY trying to determine if it was broadcast overseas in 'true' 16:9 (it was shown on the UK and OZ and I'm on the trail).

The point I've been TRYING to make is that I would find it INCONCEIVABLE that this was FILMED matted (2002) when I can track back shows to 2000 that were properly done.


I don't know why Warner did what they did. I don't know why they went with matted WS as opposed to "true" WS. I'm sure they had reasons for what they did.


Quote:
I have no doubt Warner told Gord that they had matted masters. However I still call bovine stuff on Warner.

Either

a) they don't know they have a 16:9 master (IGNORANCE)
b) they won't use it (STUPIDITY or ARROGANCE)
c) they screwed up and used the matted master for the discs and now won't change it (ARROGANCE)
d) for some reason beyond all intelligence and forethought they wiped the 16:9 masters or never made them (IGNORANCE and STUPIDITY) I seriously doubt that.

I can forgive a) if they fix it before they release it. b) and c) are not forgivable and I would HOPE that BoP fandom hits Warner HARD about this to try to fix it. I can agree that there will be one and only one release.. so for pete's sake, get it right the 1st time.


I don't know what Warner has in their vault.

AFAIK, the show was both filmed and broadcast in matted 4:3. Perhaps these so-called rumored "European widescreen" broadcasts that you speak of were matted 4:3 as well?

#57 of 122 OFFLINE   cart99

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Posted April 27 2008 - 12:52 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by whisperintherain
This is really much ado about nothing. Rick, I don't mean to offend you, but you're getting ridiculously upset about this. As already stated, it is a DVD release, for crying out loud. The world has far more important issues. Can't you just be glad the show is getting a release at all? Either you're a fan of the show and decide to support it by getting a copy, or you're not and you don't, simple as that. No need to scream blue murder for months about the aspect/ratio, which I suspect most of the buying public doesn't give a rat's ass about.

From what I have gathered, I think all that Rick P is trying to do is raise awareness that this could be a much better release if 16:9 masters exist. He's obviously a much bigger fan than I and if he doesn't attempt to raise "blue murder" about it then nothing will change. Those that don't care about matted and anamorphic now will one day when they have no hope of ever seeing a new release and own a widescreen tv. Regardless of how many years down the road that may be for them they will discover how inferior it looks.

#58 of 122 OFFLINE   LizH

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Posted April 27 2008 - 03:13 AM

We're talking about a six-year-old show here.


I doubt the network was even thinking in terms of anamorphic widescreen viewers back in 2002. The technology was in its relative infancy back then.

#59 of 122 OFFLINE   BrandonJF

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Posted April 27 2008 - 04:06 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by LizH
We're talking about a six-year-old show here.


I doubt the network was even thinking in terms of anamorphic widescreen viewers back in 2002. The technology was in its relative infancy back then.


Yet, Smallville started in 2001. Guess what the DVDs are? Yep. Anamorphic widescreen. There were plenty of shows airing in anamorphic widescreen prior to the year Birds of Prey launched. It's safe to say that networks were thinking in terms of anamorphic widescreen. Heck, sitcoms were already being forced to protect for the 16:9 frame.

We're also talking about a studio that has supported anamorphic widescreen transfers of material that probably shouldn't be - like, early seasons of E.R., V:The Final Battle... Plus, for comparison purposes and to illustrate the new "backwards" mentality going on at WBHV, I know for a fact that every episode of Fastlane aired in anamorphic widescreen and we're apparently getting full frame transfers for that one.

This is just laziness.

Also, as has been pointed out, Gord is getting incorrect info from WB if they are telling him the show was broadcast 1.33:1 (unless there is just confusing and that just means "1.33:1 letterboxed to 1.78:1", or whatever it was matted to). This show was letterboxed. Whether it aired anamorphic somewhere (I can't recall if i had WB in HD at that point), I don't know. But, I don't think it's aspect ratio is really in question. If WB's sole master is a non-anamorphic widescreen tape, then someone dropped the ball. I'd be shocked if this thing was shot on video.

#60 of 122 OFFLINE   BrandonJF

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Posted April 27 2008 - 04:14 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by whisperintherain
This is really much ado about nothing. Rick, I don't mean to offend you, but you're getting ridiculously upset about this. As already stated, it is a DVD release, for crying out loud. The world has far more important issues.

Look, this is a home theater forum. I think everyone is aware that we aren't solving world hunger by participating in threads about DVDs or HT equipment. If you're taking the "world has far more important issues" line, what are you doing in here posting? Seriously, the world has far more important issues than how upset Rick is or isn't with regard to this release. Everyone could play that game here all day until the forum is empty.

In the context of this thread - and DVD releases in general - this IS important.


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