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Are we Spoiled?


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#1 of 67 OFFLINE   JamesSmith

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Posted March 07 2008 - 08:56 PM

Dear Guys:

While there are a great many tv shows we wish that were on DVD, isn't it true that most of us have them already on video or could easily convert them to DVD if we wanted?

Granted, I want them too. But sometimes I wonder. As long as we have our own collections, and we can always grab a friend and FORCE them to share our favorite forgotten programs with us (with popcorn in hand), do we make a big fuss over some of this.

Like taking an acquaintance, grabbing him/her, and showing him/her all 8 episodes of Quark from 1978, and going "See! See! I told you this was great. . What? Can't you understand this is fine art? It's done by one of the two people who created Get Smart. Wait! Why are you walking out the door? Come back here. It's got a really great theme song. . And it's got the Barnstable twins! They used to be the Doublemint Twins in the 70's. Really."

Ok. I'm exaggerating a bit. But have you ever tried to recommend an old show to someone who could care less and only want to watch the new stuff.

I'm not trying to be judgemental, but does anyone else feel guilty about some of this at times. We already have all the episodes on tape.

But going back to the topic So. . are we spoiled?

James Smith

#2 of 67 OFFLINE   Regulus

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Posted March 07 2008 - 11:14 PM

I do not recommend trying to "Ram something down Someone's Throat". (I'm all sure we have been in a situation where that has happened to us!Posted Image )

Lasy year we had some visitors at my Mother's House and on one afternoon I spotted them watching an Episode of a TV Show I had on DVD on a Commercial-Infested Channel, I got the DVD and showed it to them and they were impressed! The next day I showed them the next episode in the series, timing it to start at the same time the Network started theirs. They immediately noted scenes on the DVD that they had not seen on the Network Version, and when the episode ended there were still 15 minutes to spare on the Network Version. I told them those 15 minutes plus the time taken from the cut-off scenes was the time they were spending watching Commercials! Posted Image I haven't seen them since, but I hope they saw how much better Home Video is than Network or Cable TV!

DVD Collection Inventory: TV Episodes - 36,417 :biggrin: ( 757 Series ) :biggrin: Movies - 2,424  :biggrin: Serial Chapters - 1,201 :B)


#3 of 67 OFFLINE   george kaplan

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Posted March 08 2008 - 12:35 AM

isn't it true that most of us have them already on video or could easily convert them to DVD if we wanted?

We already have all the episodes on tape.
I don't think this is true at all. Or if so, then I'm certainly in the minority and I'm very jealous.

I didn't even have a vcr when WKRP was on, and so those complete and unedited shows are lost to me forever, since they're never coming out on dvd.
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#4 of 67 OFFLINE   Gary OS

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Posted March 08 2008 - 01:33 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesSmith
While there are a great many tv shows we wish that were on DVD, isn't it true that most of us have them already on video or could easily convert them to DVD if we wanted?

I'm not trying to be judgemental, but does anyone else feel guilty about some of this at times. We already have all the episodes on tape.

I've only read of a few people on these boards who make this claim of having everything they want on vhs. I can assure you that the majority of us do NOT have everything we want. Not even close! To be honest, it kinda comes off as boasting and school yard bragging akin to "my father/mother/home is better than yours" that little kids engage in. I'm not speaking to you personally, but of the larger message that says we should all have the series we want from taping 20+ years ago. Some of us just flat out weren't in the position to do that, for many, many reasons.

Gary "most of the 50's and early 60's shows have not been on tv for close to 2 decades, and unless you were quite well to do in the early 80's I don't see how the average joe could have taped everything they wanted" O.
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#5 of 67 OFFLINE   RickER

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Posted March 08 2008 - 01:49 AM

I had a VCR in the early 80s, but blank tapes were DAMN expensive. Maybe you dont remember the day when blank tapes were $20, or more each, for quality tape. But most important, those tapes would be 25 years old now, and i would like DVD resolution, not VCR quality.

You want to talk spoiled, this is what spoiled is:

I remember the day when i bought Star Trek on tape. It was 2 episodes on one tape. The next year, about '83, i bought an LD player. I bought those same 10 episodes again on LD. How excited was i to own 10 episodes of Star Trek, uncut, and looking better than the film prints that my local channels aired. Remember when local channels ran scratched, broken, and beat to hell film prints? It was so cool to own them, and looking better than my local channels! Now i get a laugh when people bitch that only 1/2 a season of something was released, when i remember the day i was excited just to get a handful of episodes that i could revisit anytime i wanted!

Of course i understand why people want complete sets...just remembering when.

#6 of 67 OFFLINE   Glenn Overholt

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Posted March 08 2008 - 04:04 AM

James, the only reason that you haven't been arrested yet is because the studios figure that you aren't worth the effort.

It is legal for you to tape shows to watch them later, but nobody ever gave you permission to tape and keep them.

Glenn

#7 of 67 OFFLINE   Corey3rd

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Posted March 08 2008 - 04:09 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn Overholt
James, the only reason that you haven't been arrested yet is because the studios figure that you aren't worth the effort.

It is legal for you to tape shows to watch them later, but nobody ever gave you permission to tape and keep them.

Glenn

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#8 of 67 OFFLINE   Ockeghem

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Posted March 08 2008 - 04:23 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by RickER
I remember the day when i bought Star Trek on tape. It was 2 episodes on one tape. The next year, about '83, i bought an LD player. I bought those same 10 episodes again on LD. How excited was i to own 10 episodes of Star Trek, uncut, and looking better than the film prints that my local channels aired. Remember when local channels ran scratched, broken, and beat to hell film prints? It was so cool to own them, and looking better than my local channels! Now i get a laugh when people bitch that only 1/2 a season of something was released, when i remember the day i was excited just to get a handful of episodes that i could revisit anytime i wanted!
Rick,

I remember those days. I've had a couple of those two-episodes per tape in my hands, but I didn't start purchasing TOS seriously until the mid-1980s (the first single episode-per-tape edition, not the blue ones that came out shortly thereafter, although I do own a couple of those volumes as well). I now own the entire TOS series on VHS tape and on DVD (with regard to the latter, one half of the series in the two episodes per disc sets plus the complete series in three boxed sets).

Believe it or not, I may still spring one day to complete the two episode-per-disc DVD sets that came out a few years ago (in forty volumes). As I mentioned, I own about half of them. I just like the look and feel of those sets, and I'd be willing to bet that there are some people out there who would be willing to part with them since the boxed sets are now available.

#9 of 67 OFFLINE   Hank Dearborn

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Posted March 08 2008 - 06:01 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn Overholt
It is legal for you to tape shows to watch them later, but nobody ever gave you permission to tape and keep them.

Glenn


Oh, really? According to who, you? That's what I love about the internet, people are able to make any outrageous statement they want. And the great thing about the Home Theater Forum is that when you point it out, you get chastised for it.

Read the book, Fast Forward, Hollywood, The Japanese and the VCR Wars by James Lardner. Universal vs Sony lawsuit was decided by the Supreme Court and it was decided that home recording of television programs did not constitute copyright infringement. For the full decision, go to this link:

Sony v. Universal: US Supreme Court Betamax Decision (Jan 1984)

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#10 of 67 OFFLINE   MatthewA

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Posted March 08 2008 - 06:16 AM

Hindsight is 20/20, and unfortunately for many of the shows I wanted I only taped them from edited syndication or cable reruns if and when they came on, and I tried to find network copies of them but it often seems everyone who has what I want wants nothing I can offer. That's why I wanted to jump for joy when they started putting TV shows on DVD.

I was negative five years old when, say, WKRP began, and my mom and dad hadn't even met. We got our first VCR when I was one. I had no idea about syndication cutting until The Simpsons was edited, and I had had the foresight to tape that from Fox from day one. For other, earlier shows, I had no idea until much later the extent of the practice. Even for taping them off syndication or cable in the 1990s my mom started to come down on me for the quantity of tape necessary.

And even if you can find the uncut versions, there is no guarantee of the quality. I've seen recordings with more waves than the beach at Waikiki.

Spoiled? Not even close.

Enough is enough, Disney. No more evasions or excuses. We DEMAND the release Song of the South on Blu-ray along with the uncut version of Bedknobs and Broomsticks on Blu-ray. I am going to boycott The Walt Disney Company until then.


#11 of 67 OFFLINE   Hank Dearborn

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Posted March 08 2008 - 06:21 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary OS
I've only read of a few people on these boards who make this claim of having everything they want on vhs. I can assure you that the majority of us do NOT have everything we want. Not even close! To be honest, it kinda comes off as boasting and school yard bragging akin to "my father/mother/home is better than yours" that little kids engage in. I'm not speaking to you personally, but of the larger message that says we should all have the series we want from taping 20+ years ago. Some of us just flat out weren't in the position to do that, for many, many reasons.

Gary "most of the 50's and early 60's shows have not been on tv for close to 2 decades, and unless you were quite well to do in the early 80's I don't see how the average joe could have taped everything they wanted" O.


I have access to tens of thousands of series episodes, from my 25+ years of collecting, from friends that I made over that time who are also huge collectors and from a couple of friends who passed away whose vast collections I inherited. And, even with all of that, I don't have close to everything that I want. For one thing, even if you were recording heavily in the 80s or knew people who were, there was so much classic rare product being shown that it was impossible to get it all. CBN, Lifetime, BET, USA, HA, WOR Satellite Feed, Fox Net, A&E, early TV Land. Stuff was everywhere and no 5 people could have recorded it all. There was just too much out there. But I can name you dozens of obscure shows I would want that never made it to air anywhere in the taping era, not to mention things that did which people missed recording. For instance Bravo in England ran a lot of great stuff but it was so hard to get a contact and they would just run through a show one time and that was it. But they aired things like Dan August, Smith Family, Saints and Sinners, Pruitts of Southhampton and loads of other rarities. And then of course there were shows that you killed yourself to get that are now readily available to everyone. Things like The Fugitive, The Invaders, Man from UNCLE, etc., were all hard to find shows in the early 80s. And this is in the 16mm days, not the pre-cut time sped airings from the 90s.

But regardless of what shows I got or didn't get, I had a blast with the whole hobby. The excitement of getting those tapes in the mail, of finding a market running a rare show, I wouldn't trade those days for DVDs of every series ever. Some of the best friends I have in the world I made through the hobby and I have friends all over the world that I made through tape collecting. That's something you'll never be able to get from DVD. Yeah, it's great to be able to click a mouse on amazon at 3 o'clock in the morning and have a whole series show up on your doorstep in pristine condition a few days later. But I'll take the fun of the hunt and the chase and the experiences and friendships I made over that any day. It kind of reminds me of the Twilight Zone episode, A Nice Place to Visit. Getting everything you want easily takes all of the joy out of it. It's the process and the struggle that makes it worthwhile.

#12 of 67 OFFLINE   troy evans

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Posted March 08 2008 - 06:26 AM

I don't think anyone is spoiled. Since many of us don't seem to have some of the series we want on dvd or released at all. For those that were able to record what they wanted, more power to you. I wasn't one of the lucky ones in that regard. Also, if you do have a series taped and want it on dvd I don't see how that would make you spoiled. Tapes get old and play crappy after awhile, where as dvds hold up better, longer. I can see the point from the perspective that we have a hell of a lot more released tv shows on dvd than we ever had on any other format. We want more is all. Our favorites the same as others favorites. When people complain about not having what they specifically want sometimes it's because others get what they wanted and it's only fair. Ultimately, there will be a great deal of disapointment in regards to what we won't get on dvd vs. what we have. People who express that are not spoiled in my opinion, however.
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#13 of 67 OFFLINE   troy evans

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Posted March 08 2008 - 06:32 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank Dearborn
Yeah, it's great to be able to click a mouse on amazon at 3 o'clock in the morning and have a whole series show up on your doorstep in pristine condition a few days later.
If you're lucky that is. Posted Image
" I think it's time we go to plan B". "What's plan B?" "That's the one where we don't do something stupid".

#14 of 67 OFFLINE   Jeff Willis

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Posted March 08 2008 - 09:42 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesSmith
Dear Guys:

While there are a great many tv shows we wish that were on DVD, isn't it true that most of us have them already on video or could easily convert them to DVD if we wanted?

James,

Speakng for myself, I'm not in the group here that has a library of shows on media of any kind. I started collecting TV/DVD sets in '03. As for being spoiled Posted Image I'm not sure what angle you were wanting to approach this part, but for me, I'm generally happy with the # of sets that have been released since '03. Having said that, I'm like everyone else here; I want more & more Posted Image

There are a number of members here that I'd classify as serious collector/hobbyists of the TV/DVD market but I'm definitely in the "small potatoes" group here Posted Image I'm too busy most of the time watching sports on TV Posted Image The upside of that is that I won't deplete my DVD-viewing for a long time.

Where the # of releaes are lacking, IMO, are with a lot of the pre-'65 shows. That said, I've seen some shows released, a couple of the entire series, that I wouldn't have guessed we'd ever see them on DVD. Fortunately, a couple of those releases were on my "grail" list so that has kept me busy viewing the DVD collection. If the releases stopped completely after all that have been announced to date, I'd have enough to view for a couple of years.

If you were referring to being spoiled by the studio's releases, my take on it is that I can't complain if a TV/DVD release is done in an acceptable manner. That criteria varies widely here from what I read in this forum but as long as the prints are watchable and un-cut (no cut footage/scenes), I'm generally satisfied. I realize that we're not going to get 100% releases in the caliber of the Fugitive or Time Tunnel, Voyage....Sea, etc, as far as excellent xfrs. Where my line is drawn is with the PD or near-PD quality releases. I know there are those here that have no issue with those and that's great for them. I'm happy for those that can enjoy the releases of that quality, understanding that for them, a particular show's content overcomes the xfr/print issues.

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#15 of 67 OFFLINE   Glenn Overholt

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Posted March 08 2008 - 09:59 AM

Hank - that decision is clearly only for time-shifting of material on TV. The original premise was that everything that was taped would be seen within 1 week, and then recorded over. Most people only had about 10 tapes that they used over and over.

I don't know if they have changed their minds on this yet, but the studios are capable of making over-the-air broadcasts unrecordable. I actually saw one local station "test" out their equipment for a few minutes by turning on a "flag" that would tell the DVR that it was not allowed to record this material.

Glenn

#16 of 67 OFFLINE   mylan

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Posted March 08 2008 - 12:18 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn Overholt

I don't know if they have changed their minds on this yet, but the studios are capable of making over-the-air broadcasts unrecordable. I actually saw one local station "test" out their equipment for a few minutes by turning on a "flag" that would tell the DVR that it was not allowed to record this material.

Glenn

God help us all if that comes to pass, we'll very likely have to stop watching about half or more of what we see. I really cannot see the benefit of this, Tivo would go out of business to be sure, the mind just boggles at the implications if this happens.
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#17 of 67 OFFLINE   Hank Dearborn

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Posted March 08 2008 - 03:12 PM

I haven't watched anything other than sports while it was airing in quite a number of years. And even a lot of the sports I watch I time shift as well. Too many commercials. If I couldn't record them to my DVD hard drive, I just wouldn't bother. But realistically I don't see this occurring. And even if it did, I'm sure there would be a way to beat it as there is a way to beat every other copyguard.

#18 of 67 OFFLINE   RickER

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Posted March 08 2008 - 03:23 PM

Nice post Hank. You know, i was into HT 25 years ago, it just didnt have a name then. Most people thought i was crazy buying TV shows on tape, and movies on LD. How i wished i had kept some of the shows i recorded back in the day. But like other have said, i didnt tape to keep, just to watch at a later time. I bought LDs to keep! I would pay good money for The Six Million Dollar Man (R1), and The Fantastic Journey. I saw FJ on Sci-Fi about 10 years ago, and i didnt tape it...stupid me!

#19 of 67 OFFLINE   Hank Dearborn

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Posted March 08 2008 - 07:06 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by RickER
Nice post Hank. You know, i was into HT 25 years ago, it just didnt have a name then. Most people thought i was crazy buying TV shows on tape, and movies on LD. How i wished i had kept some of the shows i recorded back in the day. But like other have said, i didnt tape to keep, just to watch at a later time. I bought LDs to keep! I would pay good money for The Six Million Dollar Man (R1), and The Fantastic Journey. I saw FJ on Sci-Fi about 10 years ago, and i didnt tape it...stupid me!


Here's something I don't understand and maybe someone can help me with this. I read all of the time on here about this show or that show being something someone is dying to get. Well, how is it that it never occurred to people to try to get the shows before DVD came about. Especially among the majority of posters here it seems that collecting TV shows wasn't something they thought to do prior to DVD. I don't get it.

#20 of 67 OFFLINE   troy evans

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Posted March 08 2008 - 07:48 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank Dearborn
Here's something I don't understand and maybe someone can help me with this. I read all of the time on here about this show or that show being something someone is dying to get. Well, how is it that it never occurred to people to try to get the shows before DVD came about. Especially among the majority of posters here it seems that collecting TV shows wasn't something they thought to do prior to DVD. I don't get it.
Dvd has made the shows more available than any other previous released format. There seems to be a ton of tv on dvd. I think people who missed the boat or didn't tape a program have come to see the dvd format as a ray of hope for what they want. Some may also have the opinion, considerring what's been released, that thier favorite shows are shoe-ins. The more time that goes by the more I believe tv on dvd may not give some what they want. That is truely sad, but, it's going to be hard to release every tv show ever on dvd. Not even all films have hit the format yet. Some will be left out and some will be rewarded.
" I think it's time we go to plan B". "What's plan B?" "That's the one where we don't do something stupid".


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