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Subwoofer choices....


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#1 of 31 HTenthusiast

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Posted March 07 2008 - 02:29 PM

Boy, this is becoming very hard to pick and choose from!! I had no idea that there were so many awesome deals on killer HT subs out there until I came across this forum. I've narrowed it down to either the Axiom EP600v2 or the SVSound PC Ultra 13. If I had the room, the AV123 MFW-15 was also in the runnings but alas, I do not have the room for such a big, boxy subwoofer cabinet. If any of you can give me personal opinions of either subwoofer or maybe show me some other subs that are of the tall/slender shape, show me the way....lol. As of these two, which would you choose and why? How would they fare if pitted against each other?

Phillip
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#2 of 31 mayhem13

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Posted March 07 2008 - 02:45 PM

Haven't heard the Axiom but have listened to the SVS which is one serious sub for the money. At intense levels during movies like The Curse of the Golden Flower, the drums literally popped the sheetrock screws in the room with two of these in my friends HT.

#3 of 31 HTenthusiast

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Posted March 07 2008 - 05:28 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by mayhem13
Haven't heard the Axiom but have listened to the SVS which is one serious sub for the money. At intense levels during movies like The Curse of the Golden Flower, the drums literally popped the sheetrock screws in the room with two of these in my friends HT.

That's been the general feeling of the SVS so far. I've not heard one in person yet, nor the 600v2 either. Both seem to be pretty similar in performance but with looks going towards the 600v2.
"A home theater system should sound good, be aesthetically pleasing and above all, should make YOU happy!!"

#4 of 31 Parker Clack

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Posted March 07 2008 - 09:50 PM

I cannot comment on the Axiom sub as I have never heard one. From the reviews I have read from people that I value their opinion they all rate it highly.

I have an SVS, have heard several models including the Ultra 13 and can tell they are not only great performing subs their real value is in customer service and after the sale. As a company SVS kicks ass as seriously as their subs.

The bottom line on either is that they both make a great product and both have fantastic customer service. Since they both have a generous return policy it would be worth your while to audition them in your own environment and let your own ears be the best judge. You cannot go wrong with either one.

Parker

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#5 of 31 HTenthusiast

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Posted March 07 2008 - 11:23 PM

That's what I may wind up doing. I really wish I had room to do either a killer IB setup or the Epik Tower or Conquest. Those look like some serious subwoofers!! I can't even begin to imagine what it would sound/feel like to have a Conquest running full tilt....lol. Kinda makes me feel giddy inside thinking about it. I think I'm going to start off with the EP600v2 first since they always have those in stock and see how it goes. Afterwards, when SVS catches up with their production, I'll do a side by side of the pair and see how it goes after a good break-in period. 1812 Overture, Jurassic park and U-571 look out!!


Phillip
"A home theater system should sound good, be aesthetically pleasing and above all, should make YOU happy!!"

#6 of 31 John Dirk

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Posted March 08 2008 - 01:11 AM

Well. I am seeing a trend in this thread; That being no one has personally auditioned an Axiom sub. Not to slight Axiom, as I use their QS8's and VP150, but SVS makes some awesome subs. When I crank up my PB12 Plus/2, I have actually received "feedback" from my next door neighbors. They wonder if there's a thunder storm brewing, and I am in a heavily insulated basement. Seriously!

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#7 of 31 SHS

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Posted March 09 2008 - 07:20 AM

I cannot help you as far as my experience listening to all the other brands of subwoofers. I have heard several different models of several brands in various venues but as most would agree, unless you do a side by side comparison with subs the comparison is not fair. (unless the difference is overwhelming)

With that said, I went on a "sub-hunt" about two years ago as well. I read and read and read, and listened and listened and then read some more. I began to get a little frustrated because I could see as soon as I decided upon a choice then something better was introduced but wasn't to be available for several months. This cycle repeated itself at least a half a dozen times in two years. One positive thing did emerge though. My knowledge had increased and my ignorance was washing away.

You mentioned something that was very interesting...."HT sub" and this is something to consider before making a good choice. Before I can give any advice on your choice then I think you should expound on what you will use it for. Is it 100% HT? Is it to be used with music listening as well? These are critical details as you will begin to see that the purchase of a sub for HT and a purchase of a sub for music can cause some conflicting design qualities.

My choice was made on my listening goals. I chose the SVS PB-13 Ultra because it (from all reports) seemed to offer the best in both worlds as well as price, finish, recommendations, support, quality, size, company and etc.

My impression so far, after about one month with this subwoofer.

Performance; It has yet to cease to completely amaze me, I get the sense that I am not even stretching its legs at my HT and Music listening levels, which shake the house at 110-120dbs. Measured by a Radio shack digital SPL meter. The performance I have for HT and music is wonderful, from my experience.

Price & Quality of build;I bought a "B" stock unit with the cloth grill and was astounded at this unit. Not a scratch, not an issue, perfect condition delivered in what appeared to be new packing material. The finish is great and it is built like a tank. (and it was a few hundred under retail)

Size;It's not small, measure your area before ordering ANY sub. It has to be considered, also the distance from the wall must be factored in.

Company;I have never had a better customer service experience. From the start of my exploration a few years ago these guys have answered questions and helped with recommendations. Even with discussions of other brands of subs and/or speakers they have always been forthcoming and helpful.

As a side note they threw a t-shirt in the sub box and I asked about the metal grill and they sent one to me at no charge. This was unusual as they would normally charge for the metal grilll.

Overall my impression is to recommend an SVS sub to anyone. I do think that you can get good or even great subs with the other brands.

I strongly considered these, deterants in ():

AV123 - Dual MWF-15's(size and availability)
Elemental Design- A7-700 or A7-450(size, price and finish)
SVS - PB-12 +2(Older design, performance)
HSU - (Style/finish)
JL Audio - Fathom 113(price)
Dayton - Titanic MK 3 kit(performance)
Home project - (time, tools, experience, skill)
and a few others.

As you can see performance was not as big a factor as other issues for me. I think most of these could be so close in performance that without a side by side comparison it would be nearly impossible to tell the difference.

Some might look at me as an SVS fanboy now but I feel as if i did my due diligence and yes I am very happy with my choice....YMMV.
.....this is truly an illness

#8 of 31 Vaughan Odendaal

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Posted March 09 2008 - 07:57 AM

I'm glad you like your SVS PB13-Ultra. It's a great subwoofer. I have dual MFW-15's on the way and I can't wait to stretch it's legs.

--Regards,

#9 of 31 SHS

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Posted March 09 2008 - 12:35 PM

Thanks Vaughan, I can't wait to hear about the dual MFW-15's I seriously considered them, the price was astounding for duals. The reviews were very good as well, but I could not get over the size x 2 and my room will not accomodate them right now.

BTW, I have been admiring the rockets for the last few years. I think they are among the sexiest speakers(visually) on the market at this price range.
.....this is truly an illness

#10 of 31 HTenthusiast

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Posted March 10 2008 - 03:47 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by SHS
I cannot help you as far as my experience listening to all the other brands of subwoofers. I have heard several different models of several brands in various venues but as most would agree, unless you do a side by side comparison with subs the comparison is not fair. (unless the difference is overwhelming)

With that said, I went on a "sub-hunt" about two years ago as well. I read and read and read, and listened and listened and then read some more. I began to get a little frustrated because I could see as soon as I decided upon a choice then something better was introduced but wasn't to be available for several months. This cycle repeated itself at least a half a dozen times in two years. One positive thing did emerge though. My knowledge had increased and my ignorance was washing away.

You mentioned something that was very interesting...."HT sub" and this is something to consider before making a good choice. Before I can give any advice on your choice then I think you should expound on what you will use it for. Is it 100% HT? Is it to be used with music listening as well? These are critical details as you will begin to see that the purchase of a sub for HT and a purchase of a sub for music can cause some conflicting design qualities.

My choice was made on my listening goals. I chose the SVS PB-13 Ultra because it (from all reports) seemed to offer the best in both worlds as well as price, finish, recommendations, support, quality, size, company and etc.

My impression so far, after about one month with this subwoofer.

Performance; It has yet to cease to completely amaze me, I get the sense that I am not even stretching its legs at my HT and Music listening levels, which shake the house at 110-120dbs. Measured by a Radio shack digital SPL meter. The performance I have for HT and music is wonderful, from my experience.

Price & Quality of build;I bought a "B" stock unit with the cloth grill and was astounded at this unit. Not a scratch, not an issue, perfect condition delivered in what appeared to be new packing material. The finish is great and it is built like a tank. (and it was a few hundred under retail)

Size;It's not small, measure your area before ordering ANY sub. It has to be considered, also the distance from the wall must be factored in.

Company;I have never had a better customer service experience. From the start of my exploration a few years ago these guys have answered questions and helped with recommendations. Even with discussions of other brands of subs and/or speakers they have always been forthcoming and helpful.

As a side note they threw a t-shirt in the sub box and I asked about the metal grill and they sent one to me at no charge. This was unusual as they would normally charge for the metal grilll.

Overall my impression is to recommend an SVS sub to anyone. I do think that you can get good or even great subs with the other brands.

I strongly considered these, deterants in ():

AV123 - Dual MWF-15's(size and availability)
Elemental Design- A7-700 or A7-450(size, price and finish)
SVS - PB-12 +2(Older design, performance)
HSU - (Style/finish)
JL Audio - Fathom 113(price)
Dayton - Titanic MK 3 kit(performance)
Home project - (time, tools, experience, skill)
and a few others.

As you can see performance was not as big a factor as other issues for me. I think most of these could be so close in performance that without a side by side comparison it would be nearly impossible to tell the difference.

Some might look at me as an SVS fanboy now but I feel as if i did my due diligence and yes I am very happy with my choice....YMMV.


I will be using it for 70% movies and 30% music. I do like a sub that has good extension and a quick attack, not loose or one note-ish. The MFW-15's were a pick but I have no room to have an enclosure that's big/boxy like they are. That rules out Epik subs too. The EP600v2 and PC Ultra 13 are my top 2 choices from a price/performance and fitment point.
"A home theater system should sound good, be aesthetically pleasing and above all, should make YOU happy!!"

#11 of 31 SHS

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Posted March 10 2008 - 12:50 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by HTenthusiast
I will be using it for 70% movies and 30% music. I do like a sub that has good extension and a quick attack, not loose or one note-ish. The MFW-15's were a pick but I have no room to have an enclosure that's big/boxy like they are. That rules out Epik subs too. The EP600v2 and PC Ultra 13 are my top 2 choices from a price/performance and fitment point.
Then from my experience I'd recommend the SVS PB-13 Ultra , can't speak for the others.....for what it's worth.

Keep in mind I have no comparison to the other subs mentioned previously, but I have no regrets in my choice.
I really do not think you would be dissapointed. It is awesome from my experience and several other opinions of what I consider knowledgable HT entusiasts that have been to my home and experienced the system.
.....this is truly an illness

#12 of 31 Parker Clack

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Posted March 11 2008 - 11:57 AM

Phillip:

I have heard the PB13-Ultra and kicks some serious bass ass. I have always thought that SVS should have as its logo All your bass. Are belong to us.

It's funny. You can pick up another sub before the SVS and wonder if the SVS would have been a better choice. I have yet to hear of anyone that bought an SVS come back on the forum and say that some other sub they were considering would have been a better choice.

Parker

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are confidential and can only be released to other insurance companies,

pharmaceutical​ reps, suppliers of medical equipment and for some

reason the RNC."
 


#13 of 31 oliveryochest

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Posted March 11 2008 - 02:37 PM

I love the SVS

#14 of 31 John Garcia

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Posted March 12 2008 - 09:41 AM

Of the subs I've heard, the PB-13 is still my favorite.
HT: Emotiva UMC-200, Emotiva XPA-3, Carnegie Acoustics CSB-1s + CSC-1, GR Research A/V-1s, Epik Empire, Oppo BDP-105, PS4, PS3,URC R-50, APC-H10, Panamax 5100 Bluejeans Cable
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#15 of 31 Dan Burch

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Posted March 15 2008 - 06:19 PM

I wish you guys would have posted the price of the SVS at the beginning of this thread. I was sold hook line and sinker on it, ready to buy, then I saw the $1500 price tag. I guess I'm just a cheap bastard but that's way too much for me.
I have a Yamaha rx-v1800 in a 10 X 12 room. I probably over bought there.
I have no speakers or sub. System will be used for 90% movies, whatever the wife brings home from Blockbuster. Budget around $400 for sub and maybe $1000 for book shelf speakers (5.1). Any suggestions?

Might be a crazy question, but if front and rear speakers are hung from the ceiling with 4, 6" to 1' wires or something like monofilament line would that cut down on the wall vibration? Would it even work?

I want to get this system up and going, any advice?
Thanks, Dan

#16 of 31 HTenthusiast

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Posted March 15 2008 - 07:19 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Burch
I wish you guys would have posted the price of the SVS at the beginning of this thread. I was sold hook line and sinker on it, ready to buy, then I saw the $1500 price tag. I guess I'm just a cheap bastard but that's way too much for me.
I have a Yamaha rx-v1800 in a 10 X 12 room. I probably over bought there.
I have no speakers or sub. System will be used for 90% movies, whatever the wife brings home from Blockbuster. Budget around $400 for sub and maybe $1000 for book shelf speakers (5.1). Any suggestions?

Might be a crazy question, but if front and rear speakers are hung from the ceiling with 4, 6" to 1' wires or something like monofilament line would that cut down on the wall vibration? Would it even work?

I want to get this system up and going, any advice?
Thanks, Dan


One thing I do know for a fact is that you most definitely get what you pay for. A $1500 SVS PC Ultra is going to be the last subwoofer you'll ever buy. Same goes for the Axiom EP600v2. You want a subwoofer that digs deep, below the threshold of human hearing. It pressurizes the room to where you FEEL it more than hear it. That is the goal of a good HT sub. As far as hanging the satellites from the ceiling with wire, don't you think that they'll be hard to keep aimed at the listening spot dangling in the air? There are really nice wall brackets that clamp onto the bottom of the enclosure and swivel 180 deg left/right and 10-20 deg up and down. Since the speakers are on the brackets, they have plastic or rubber isolators that dampen any cabinet vibrations that might be transmitted to the wall. If your speakers are in fact transmitting any sort of vibration that can be felt on the exterior of the cabinet, I would seriously suggest looking into higher quality built speakers.
"A home theater system should sound good, be aesthetically pleasing and above all, should make YOU happy!!"

#17 of 31 HTenthusiast

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Posted March 15 2008 - 07:22 PM

On a side note, I used to think the Sunfire True Subwoofer cost a lot @ 1500, but have learned that you get what you pay for in terms of overall quality/performance. I'd never spend more than $1800 for a sub, but I do expect my money to be well spent. The Klipsch Synergy SW-12 sounds pretty good for around $450 but will not be able to give you that true "feeling" like a great subwoofer can.
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#18 of 31 SHS

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Posted March 15 2008 - 07:50 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Burch
I wish you guys would have posted the price of the SVS at the beginning of this thread. I was sold hook line and sinker on it, ready to buy, then I saw the $1500 price tag. I guess I'm just a cheap bastard but that's way too much for me.
I have a Yamaha rx-v1800 in a 10 X 12 room. I probably over bought there.
I have no speakers or sub. System will be used for 90% movies, whatever the wife brings home from Blockbuster. Budget around $400 for sub and maybe $1000 for book shelf speakers (5.1). Any suggestions?

Might be a crazy question, but if front and rear speakers are hung from the ceiling with 4, 6" to 1' wires or something like monofilament line would that cut down on the wall vibration? Would it even work?

I want to get this system up and going, any advice?
Thanks, Dan

A few replies that might help you.
1) I wish I'd spent the $1500 earlier on this sub and not several hundred for a cheaper one.

2) I would seriously study several of the many many online sources for HT speaker placement recommendations. There are several reasons why you might not want to hang your fronts so far from the parrallel of your center. The rear surrounds might have an advantage(PROBABLY DO) being raised but this is dependant upon your room and furniture.

3) Can you elaborate on "wall vibration"? In short, you are going to create much more tactile vibration from your subwoofer than from your bookshelf speakers or from most speakers for that matter, especially if you use the recievers crossover settings. For 90% HT usage I would highly recommend using these settings.

4) From what I have learned in the few short years I have studied this hobby, you have your expectations a little skewed in relation to the speakers costs and return on investment. My opinion is that your system would be much better with $800-$1000 in a sub and $400-$600 in your surround speakers than the other way around. (considering your 90% HT usage)
.....this is truly an illness

#19 of 31 SethH

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Posted March 16 2008 - 05:08 AM

Budget around $400 for sub


Definitely check out the SVS PB-10. It's a little higher than that ($429), but is worth the extra $30 over anything in the <$400 category.

#20 of 31 Kurt Ferguson

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Posted March 16 2008 - 07:12 AM

SVS, in my opinion, offers pretty good value and performance for the price. I doubt you would be disappointed with it.
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