Jump to content



Sign up for a free account to remove the pop-up ads

Signing up for an account is fast and free. As a member you can join in the conversation, enter contests and remove the pop-up ads that guests get. Click here to create your free account.

Photo
- - - - -

Interactivity - is that what we're going to waste the extra Blu Ray disc space on?


This topic has been archived. This means that you cannot reply to this topic.
36 replies to this topic

#1 of 37 OFFLINE   andrew markworthy

andrew markworthy

    Producer



  • 4,766 posts
  • Join Date: Sep 30 1999

Posted January 24 2008 - 08:00 AM

I've read several reports recently that imply that when Blu Ray really gets into its stride it's going to find a use for all that extra disc space it has available. And that use will be ... greater interactivity and web-based activities.

My gut reaction is WHY??? Here we have the golden opportunity to put things on a disc that are useful to the movie (PIP, extras in high def, top bitrates etc), and we're going to throw it away on kids-level stuff (okay, I grant you that this is fine if it's a kids' movie, but not for adults).

I'm hoping that either (a) the stories I've heard are BS or (b) that this interactivity will actually be useful and I've just failed to understand things.

Please can someone enlighten me?

#2 of 37 OFFLINE   Jacob McCraw

Jacob McCraw

    Stunt Coordinator



  • 242 posts
  • Join Date: Dec 24 2003

Posted January 24 2008 - 08:09 AM

All that extra space would be perfect for things like Grindhouse - you could have the theatrical film on one disc.

Epics on one disc. Multiple discs of extras like the Ben Hur, Gone With the Wind, and Wizard of Oz sets condensed to one disc.

That is what I want and at reasonable prices.

#3 of 37 OFFLINE   RickER

RickER

    Producer



  • 5,130 posts
  • Join Date: Jan 04 2003
  • Real Name:Rick
  • LocationTulsa, Oklahoma

Posted January 24 2008 - 08:26 AM

I have no interest in web based stuff. Even if its good, its not forever. Five or ten years down the line i want to watch good extras, not "This page does not exist. If you feel this is an error please refresh this page."

#4 of 37 OFFLINE   Bleddyn Williams

Bleddyn Williams

    Supporting Actor



  • 977 posts
  • Join Date: Dec 31 1969
  • Real Name:Bleddyn Williams

Posted January 24 2008 - 08:28 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by RickER
I have no interest in web based stuff. Even if its good, its not forever. Five or ten years down the line i want to watch good extras, not "This page does not exist. If you feel this is an error please refresh this page."

That's exactly how I feel! Put the extras on the damn discs already!

#5 of 37 OFFLINE   brap

brap

    Stunt Coordinator



  • 114 posts
  • Join Date: Nov 28 2006

Posted January 24 2008 - 09:03 AM

If Universals usage of online features is any indication, then no thank you. Transformers HD-DVD seems to be the only one so far that has strayed into funner territory and it's just OK. I would not have missed it.
The idea of downloading commentary tracks is a interesting and possible option. Given it is on a stereo 192kbps or mono 96kbps (do we really need more?), it can easily be downloaded and use little space on the player. Can't schedule the actor or director in time to record? no worries. setting up a way to upload any ones commentary to the disc is not hard. They can even make some arrangement with RiffTrax on a pay-use basis.
Also consider downloading subtitles (which could have been a band-aid for the Stargate blu-ray debacle).

#6 of 37 OFFLINE   Clinton McClure

Clinton McClure

    Screenwriter



  • 2,781 posts
  • Join Date: Jun 28 1999
  • Real Name:Clint
  • LocationCentral Arkansas

Posted January 24 2008 - 09:09 AM

Man, wouldn't that just piss off the BD drummers if one of the chief reasons why BD is "better" than HD-DVD is wasted on useless interactivity features instead of striving for uncompressed audio and better video? I can hear it now. Posted Image

When I do eventually pick up a BD player I want one with an ethernet port, not for the interactivity junk, but for firmware upgrades only.

#7 of 37 OFFLINE   ManW_TheUncool

ManW_TheUncool

    Producer



  • 5,872 posts
  • Join Date: Aug 18 2001
  • Real Name:ManW

Posted January 24 2008 - 10:01 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clinton McClure
Man, wouldn't that just piss off the BD drummers if one of the chief reasons why BD is "better" than HD-DVD is wasted on useless interactivity features instead of striving for uncompressed audio and better video? I can hear it now. Posted Image

LOL. Well, it could be worse if there was only 30GB capacity on the disc. Posted Image Really, I thought the studios wanted the same fluff no matter which format ultimately won out. Let's just hope they will at least produce high enough quality video/audio for the films themselves to push the point of diminishing returns regardless of what extra fluff they want to add.

But actually, I guess in that sense having whatever fluff be provided via the net is a good thing. At least then less of it will need to take up space on the disc itself.

_Man_
Just another amateur learning to paint w/ "the light of the world".

"Whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, dwell on these things..." (St. Paul)

#8 of 37 OFFLINE   Edwin-S

Edwin-S

    Producer



  • 5,711 posts
  • Join Date: Aug 20 2000

Posted January 24 2008 - 10:15 AM

How is what Blu-ray is proposing any different than what HD DVD is proposing and has done? Why is the Blu-ray format being criticized for proposing web-based extras while HD DVD gets a pass? HD DVD has already started doing web based content and I sure don't here any complaining about that.
"You bring a horse for me?" "Looks like......looks like we're shy of one horse." "No.......You brought two too many."

#9 of 37 OFFLINE   Manus

Manus

    Second Unit



  • 411 posts
  • Join Date: Oct 06 2002

Posted January 24 2008 - 10:52 AM

The 51gb HD-Dvd/SD triple-decker will be with us shortly Posted Image And hopefully they won't find a way to make web-features compulsory !

Space usage has been an issue before . On Sd , they told us to expect movie music soundtracks among the goodies coming our way along with multiple cuts of the film .

How many Dvd 18s in your collection ( apart from T2 ) ?? They never really tried too hard to perfect those discs did they ? And now they want to dump the format entirely and start over so Disney can load the front of their output with even more forced ads for crap Posted Image

~M~
I have just two words to say to you..... Shut the f*** up !

#10 of 37 OFFLINE   RickER

RickER

    Producer



  • 5,130 posts
  • Join Date: Jan 04 2003
  • Real Name:Rick
  • LocationTulsa, Oklahoma

Posted January 24 2008 - 12:06 PM

We would have music soundtracks, if they didnt have to pay for them. Cost to much for so few people who care, and probably own the score anyway. I dont mind a link like DVD already has, if you want to put a DVD in and go to a site, it doesnt take that much DVD space, so its cool for any HD or Blu, but dont use space for crap...i dont like the BS on DVD either. Give me good extras please. I even tired of commentaries. How many times can you hear, "oh here he comes, thru the door!", or, So and so was so good to work with." I pass on those type of commentaries.

#11 of 37 OFFLINE   ManW_TheUncool

ManW_TheUncool

    Producer



  • 5,872 posts
  • Join Date: Aug 18 2001
  • Real Name:ManW

Posted January 24 2008 - 12:15 PM

I usually prefer a solid documentary over a commentary track myself. I rarely want to sit through an entire movie just so I can listen to the commentary track. I'm more likely to skip to a specific scene for the commentary track if I thought there would be something interesting to know there.

_Man_
Just another amateur learning to paint w/ "the light of the world".

"Whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, dwell on these things..." (St. Paul)

#12 of 37 OFFLINE   Jim_K

Jim_K

    Executive Producer



  • 10,089 posts
  • Join Date: Apr 07 2000

Posted January 24 2008 - 01:11 PM

I'm happy with an informative audio commentary, a well made documentary either about the films historical importance, an important director/actor/DP/writer, the subject matter or source material. Throw in a few deleted scenes and it's gravy.

What I could care less about are behind the scenes HBO "making of" fluff pieces, PIP, pop up features during the film, games, web enabled features, my space share my favorite scenes crap, etc, etc.

What can they use all that space for? 1 Picture quality, 2 lossless audio (I do prefer PCM which takes up more space than TrueHD and DTSMA) 3. all the extras listed that I appreciate 4. MULTIPLE VERSIONS of the film (when applicable) via seamless branching and 5. what I'd really like to see is something that was dropped in the early days of DVD.........................Isolated music scores and with BD it could be lossless. I'm probably alone in this but I think that would be a very cool feature to have.
Death before Streaming!


#13 of 37 OFFLINE   Clinton McClure

Clinton McClure

    Screenwriter



  • 2,781 posts
  • Join Date: Jun 28 1999
  • Real Name:Clint
  • LocationCentral Arkansas

Posted January 24 2008 - 01:26 PM

Quote:
How is what Blu-ray is proposing any different than what HD DVD is proposing and has done? Why is the Blu-ray format being criticized for proposing web-based extras while HD DVD gets a pass? HD DVD has already started doing web based content and I sure don't here any complaining about that.

The difference is the BD camp boasting they have almost twice the storage capacity as HD, yet do not currently use it and may continue not to use it for anything really useful to the film itself. Do I have a problem with Team HD brimming their discs with fluff? I don't watch it and don't care for it. Personally, I wish all studios would drop all the extras, making ofs, documentaries, 27 commentary tracks, deleted scenes, games, easter eggs, interactive menus, music videos, etc... from the discs themselves and put it all online so whoever wished to access it could do so and whoever did not could simply be rid of it. 99.9% of compatibility problems would go away immediately, guaranteed.

#14 of 37 OFFLINE   Stephen_J_H

Stephen_J_H

    Producer



  • 4,074 posts
  • Join Date: Jul 30 2003
  • Real Name:Stephen J. Hill
  • LocationNorth of the 49th

Posted January 24 2008 - 01:58 PM

This is what comes from having a game console as your most popular player. Posted Image
"My opinion is that (a) anyone who actually works in a video store and does not understand letterboxing has given up on life, and (b) any customer who prefers to have the sides of a movie hacked off should not be licensed to operate a video player."-- Roger Ebert

#15 of 37 OFFLINE   ManW_TheUncool

ManW_TheUncool

    Producer



  • 5,872 posts
  • Join Date: Aug 18 2001
  • Real Name:ManW

Posted January 24 2008 - 03:35 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen_J_H
This is what comes from having a game console as your most popular player. Posted Image

I guess Sony/BDA just can't win. Available standalones are not up-to-spec and gets bashed regularly because (or despite that) they can't do all the extra stuff that most HT enthusiasts don't want. The PS3 will be able to do all that stuff (and then some) after software updates, but it's just a lame-excuse-for-a-player "game console" and the BD format is a "gamer's format", so that's why they're gonna put all the extra fluff on BDs. NVM that it was originally the HDD studios that wanted all that extra fluff jammed into a small capacity format that actually grew bigger (but still is smaller) in part because of the BD challenger... Posted Image

_Man_
Just another amateur learning to paint w/ "the light of the world".

"Whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, dwell on these things..." (St. Paul)

#16 of 37 OFFLINE   Edwin-S

Edwin-S

    Producer



  • 5,711 posts
  • Join Date: Aug 20 2000

Posted January 24 2008 - 03:40 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen_J_H
This is what comes from having a game console as your most popular player. Posted Image

What does this have to do with anything regarding web enabled features? HD DVD does not have a game console as a spearhead, but they still managed to create web features. The HD DVD camp also played up the web enabled content as a selling feature of the format. Having a game console as one of your players has nothing to do with whether web based interactive features are used on movies.

In fact, a lot of people here keep complaining that Blu-ray is an unfinished format because all of the features that are currently employed on HD DVD are only now becoming available on Blu-ray. There has been nothing but complaints about Blu-ray players not being 2.0 compliant and that they should have been 2.0 compliant right from the start. 2.0 compliance is all about web enabled content.

Now there are 2.0 compliant players coming out and it is just a bunch of bitching about "lame" interactive features and yet another cheap shot about the fact that a game console is presently the best all round Blu-ray player.
"You bring a horse for me?" "Looks like......looks like we're shy of one horse." "No.......You brought two too many."

#17 of 37 OFFLINE   Paul.S

Paul.S

    Producer



  • 3,814 posts
  • Join Date: Mar 29 2000
  • Real Name:Paul
  • LocationHollywood, California

Posted January 24 2008 - 05:53 PM

HD DVD has already started doing web based content and I sure don't here any complaining about that.
Check out Sam Posten's reviews of many HD DVD titles.

I figured this capacity/ability/"functionality" would trend this direction from very early on. There's so much precedent for "content providers" mucking up a format's additional fidelity: FM has greater bandwidth than AM but most popular radio stations obviate that with hideously high amounts of compression; digital cable provided greater bandwidth for more fidelity, but execs like Preston Padden used it to "multiplex"--put a greater number of channels on the same frequency; CDs provided unprcedented signal-to-noise ratios and headroom but most pop recordings today are overly compressed and mastered way too loud for CD.

And I thoroughly expected some of this technology/capacity--especially Disney's advocacy of 50G--to be used for things that (supposedly) appeal to kids. Ken Graffeo has repeatedly referred to "studies" that told them that great AQ and PQ was not enough for HDM to be successful (I want to know who they surveyed). It would need "interactivity." That's why we're seeing so much gimmickry aimed at the "MySpace generation."

Quote:
I usually prefer a solid documentary over a commentary track myself.
Agreed.

Quote:
Isolated music scores and with BD it could be lossless. I'm probably alone in this but I think that would be a very cool feature to have.
Oh I'm with you--there's a whole thread on this. But these died on SD DVD due to the composer guild argument that iso score tracks cannibalize CD sales.

Quote:
Personally, I wish all studios would drop all the extras, making ofs, documentaries, 27 commentary tracks, deleted scenes, games, easter eggs, interactive menus, music videos, etc... from the discs themselves and put it all online so whoever wished to access it could do so and whoever did not could simply be rid of it.
Sort of like a SuperBit BD? Posted Image

But ouch--this is too broad for my tastes. I can do without the fancy, Java-driven menus that take a bit of time to load (at least on first gen machines), making me feel like I'm at my computer waiting for it to boot . . . which I hate. But I like most of that other type of content, and want it on the disc please.

#18 of 37 OFFLINE   Jari K

Jari K

    Producer



  • 3,224 posts
  • Join Date: May 16 2007

Posted January 24 2008 - 06:24 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clinton McClure
..yet do not currently use it and may continue not to use it for anything really useful to the film itself..

Do you perhaps have some facts to to back this up, or is it just your "logo" talking here the "usual stuff"?

There are (over) 450 Blu-ray-titles in the US alone. I´m sure that there are releases "using" the space and then releases that doesn´t.

Basic issue could be, that e.g. Warner has done the same encode for both HD-formats (?), so in a way it´s the HD DVD that´s holding the BD back! Posted Image Posted Image

I take that 50gb anyday over 30gb. It´s the obvious choice for me (the idea that the format with 50gb would "fade away" doesn´t sound realistic). I don´t have problems with "51gb HD DVD" either, but I believe it when I see it..

#19 of 37 OFFLINE   Clinton McClure

Clinton McClure

    Screenwriter



  • 2,781 posts
  • Join Date: Jun 28 1999
  • Real Name:Clint
  • LocationCentral Arkansas

Posted January 25 2008 - 12:00 AM

Quote:
Sort of like a SuperBit BD?

Yeah, something like that.

Quote:
Do you perhaps have some facts to to back this up, or is it just your "logo" talking here the "usual stuff"?

There are (over) 450 Blu-ray-titles in the US alone. I´m sure that there are releases "using" the space and then releases that doesn´t.

Do you have any facts to back up that BD is using all 50 gigs of it's space for uncompressed audio and video? Not for extra fluff, but for uncompressed audio and video. If they were, they would truly have a valid "superior technology" claim, and would have won the HD format war from the beginning. I know HD puts useless stuff on the discs that eat up valuable real estate and I cannot control that, but at the same time, Team BD is doing the same thing.

Quote:
Basic issue could be, that e.g. Warner has done the same encode for both HD-formats (?), so in a way it´s the HD DVD that´s holding the BD back!

I take that 50gb anyday over 30gb. It´s the obvious choice for me (the idea that the format with 50gb would "fade away" doesn´t sound realistic). I don´t have problems with "51gb HD DVD" either, but I believe it when I see it..

Are the studios using the same encodes for both formats? Most likely. Is the 30g HD-DVD encode holding back the 50g BD encode? I don't think so. It's probably more cost efficient to use the same encode size for both formats, but if Sony wanted to pull ahead and win, they would have the studios use a 50g encode instead of the "inferior" 30g. Once again, it would have ensured a swift victory from the beginning. Instead, they claim to have a better format but don't (or can't) utilize it. I would take a 50g format over a 30g any day too, but not if the encode is the same and the extra 20g is wasted on non-essentials.

#20 of 37 OFFLINE   Jari K

Jari K

    Producer



  • 3,224 posts
  • Join Date: May 16 2007

Posted January 25 2008 - 12:58 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clinton McClure
Do you have any facts to back up that BD is using all 50 gigs of it's space for uncompressed audio and video?

No, not really, but my point was that I guess you have some facts since you said "yet do not currently use it and may continue not to use it"?

I don´t have any computer based BD-players/software, so I can´t check how much is used for the transfer, how much for audio, etc.

But, even if Blu-ray doesn´t use the full "potential capacity" of these 50 gb-discs in every release, it doesn´t mean that this won´t change in the future.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clinton McClure
"superior technology"

Look, this is ("superior this" and "superior that") what both formats have been using in the PR-talk and PR-talk can actually mean very little. I´ve read from the fans that "HD DVD is superior", so it just goes in both ways. It´s just part of the format war, that both camps call "their format" superior etc. Means very little.

But, BD has more "potential" with 50gb capacity/bandwidth, and AT THIS POINT in the format war, it´s better option for me than to stick with 30gb. Call me naive or something like that, but that´s how it´s for me. Sure, perhaps HD DVD can release that "51gb"-disc and all that, but at this point it doesn´t seem likely.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clinton McClure
Are the studios using the same encodes for both formats? Most likely. Is the 30g HD-DVD encode holding back the 50g BD encode? I don't think so..

This is a tricky question and I don´t claim that I have the answers. I feel that at some cases that "30gb" might be holding Blu-ray back, but then in some cases not. Not sure..

But at least with Warner, we SHOULD see 50gb now (after May).. Let´s hope so. I can´t say for sure.


Back to Blu-ray



Forum Nav Content I Follow