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The Official Star Trek Music Discussion Thread


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#41 of 1059 OFFLINE   DavidPla

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Posted October 19 2008 - 07:13 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicholas Martin
Good thing I happened to have seen this thread on the main 'entertainment and media' page otherwise I wouldn't have seen this.

No problem, I'll dig it up and send it out. Posted Image

EDIT:

Here it is, along with a few other things:

TNG Alternate and others

Amazing! Thanks Nicholas! I love hearing what could of been.

#42 of 1059 OFFLINE   Nicholas Martin

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Posted October 19 2008 - 08:00 AM

I added a custom edit of the Goldsmith version, made using the "Motion Picture" theme because the McCarty-arranged version was always so cheesy in comparison to any and all of Goldsmith's arrangements made for the different films.

#43 of 1059 OFFLINE   Nelson Au

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Posted November 24 2008 - 09:23 AM

Scott-

A friend just emailed me an interesting observation. Apparently the opening music to the first act of The Menagerie, Part 2, and the teaser opening music is the same.

What's odd is that The Doomsday Machine music sounds "newer". Now I realize that during Star Trek and many other TV shows, they recycle the music. But Sol Kaplan is only credited with writing The Doomsday Machine and The Enemy Within. On the music CD Volume 2 containing The Doomsday Machine and Amok Time, the track I refer to is called, "Approach of Enterprise".

What's interesting here, in The Menagerie part 2, the first bars and arrangement sounds the same. In The Doomsday Machine teaser, the piece plays longer, or has more notes towards the end. I thought it might have been an alternate take. Could have been.

#44 of 1059 OFFLINE   Ockeghem

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Posted November 24 2008 - 09:50 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nelson Au
Scott-

A friend just emailed me an interesting observation. Apparently the opening music to the first act of The Menagerie, Part 2, and the teaser opening music is the same.

What's odd is that The Doomsday Machine music sounds "newer". Now I realize that during Star Trek and many other TV shows, they recycle the music. But Sol Kaplan is only credited with writing The Doomsday Machine and The Enemy Within. On the music CD Volume 2 containing The Doomsday Machine and Amok Time, the track I refer to is called, "Approach of Enterprise".

What's interesting here, in The Menagerie part 2, the first bars and arrangement sounds the same. In The Doomsday Machine teaser, the piece plays longer, or has more notes towards the end. I thought it might have been an alternate take. Could have been.
Nelson,

Nice observation there. I will have a listen to this. I am at work now (and am until 10 p.m.); I won't be able to get to this for a few days. But I will definitely have a listen to the "Approach of Enterprise" track and get back to you. Thanks for the tidbit. Posted Image

#45 of 1059 OFFLINE   Nelson Au

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Posted November 24 2008 - 10:06 AM

Hey Scott- take your time, working late?

I realized in the first paragraph of my post, I didn't clearly say the Doomsday Machine teaser had the similar music to the Menagerie Part 2 act one, but I think you go it!

#46 of 1059 OFFLINE   Ockeghem

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Posted November 24 2008 - 12:18 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nelson Au
Hey Scott- take your time, working late?

I realized in the first paragraph of my post, I didn't clearly say the Doomsday Machine teaser had the similar music to the Menagerie Part 2 act one, but I think you go it!
Nelson,

Yep, until 10 p.m. Posted Image

When you say 'teaser,' are you in this case speaking of the trailer to the episode, or something else? Thanks.

#47 of 1059 OFFLINE   Nelson Au

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Posted November 24 2008 - 12:44 PM

The teaser is the pre-title sequence.

#48 of 1059 OFFLINE   Ockeghem

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Posted November 24 2008 - 12:48 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nelson Au
The teaser is the pre-title sequence.
"No it isn't!" (Sorry--I couldn't resist a little Charlie Evans voicework there. Posted Image)

Okay, thanks. I just wanted to be sure I understood the term. Posted Image

#49 of 1059 OFFLINE   Nelson Au

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Posted November 24 2008 - 12:54 PM

You're welcome! I've heard it called that, not sure if there is another proper term for it.

#50 of 1059 OFFLINE   Ockeghem

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Posted November 24 2008 - 01:13 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nelson Au
Scott-

A friend just emailed me an interesting observation. Apparently the opening music to the first act of The Menagerie, Part 2, and the teaser opening music is the same.

What's odd is that The Doomsday Machine music sounds "newer". Now I realize that during Star Trek and many other TV shows, they recycle the music. But Sol Kaplan is only credited with writing The Doomsday Machine and The Enemy Within. On the music CD Volume 2 containing The Doomsday Machine and Amok Time, the track I refer to is called, "Approach of Enterprise".

What's interesting here, in The Menagerie part 2, the first bars and arrangement sounds the same. In The Doomsday Machine teaser, the piece plays longer, or has more notes towards the end. I thought it might have been an alternate take. Could have been.
Nelson,

What was the exact question you had regarding your post? Whether the music is the same or not? Thanks.

#51 of 1059 OFFLINE   Nelson Au

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Posted November 24 2008 - 02:31 PM

Scott, I was afraid the question might have been a little unclear.

What my friend discovered was the music used at the beginning of the first act of The Menagerie, Part 2, appeared to be the same music from The Doomsday Machine at the start of the teaser. What is odd, is that the music used sounds like it was written for The Doomsday Machine, so how could it have been in The Menagerie, Part 2.

When I checked it out, it does indeed sound the same, however, the version used in The Doomsday Machine sounds like there are a few more notes used towards the end of that piece. Hope that might make it clearer.

#52 of 1059 OFFLINE   Ockeghem

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Posted November 24 2008 - 03:45 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nelson Au
Scott, I was afraid the question might have been a little unclear.

What my friend discovered was the music used at the beginning of the first act of The Menagerie, Part 2, appeared to be the same music from The Doomsday Machine at the start of the teaser. What is odd, is that the music used sounds like it was written for The Doomsday Machine, so how could it have been in The Menagerie, Part 2.

When I checked it out, it does indeed sound the same, however, the version used in The Doomsday Machine sounds like there are a few more notes used towards the end of that piece. Hope that might make it clearer.
Nelson,

Okay, I think I understand what you're curious about. Thanks. I will have to listen to both. I'll see what I can find out.

Addendum: I watched the beginning of the first act of The Menagerie (pt. 2) last night, and followed that with the teaser to The Doomsday Machine. I have yet to listen to the Approach of Enterprise, the Constellation (on vol. 2 in my boxed set); once I do, maybe I can zero in on the segments you're curious about.

Okay, I had a chance to hear these segments. Interesting. It makes sense that they would reuse the tracks, and the default metadata/credits are not always complete. If they are distinct (that is to say, alternative takes), then that is a find. On a related note, The Menagerie (pt. 2) vs. The Cage -- what or whose music (if any) was used on the unretouched pilot?

I am thinking that as a work made for hire (copyright immediately to the studio, not held by the composer), Kaplan's engagement with the pilot project might have come later. It is datable, I suppose. Also, when the (recovered) pilot footage was later released, the music overlay might have been from tracks created in production for the episodes that would only be natural and expected--that is to say, it would add to the "look and feel" of the pilot, fitting in with production episodes.

#53 of 1059 OFFLINE   Nelson Au

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Posted November 25 2008 - 04:33 AM

Hi Scott-

Thanks for the effort! And confirming the musical piece appear to sound alike.

With regards to the untouched Cage, my sense is the music is untouched on all versions and The Menagerie and those written by Alexander Courage. The only bits that are new is the music used in the newly filmed parts "wrapping" the episode, which includes that mystery music I was curious about.

So the only possible conclusion is that the mystery music was already written at the time of The Menagerie and they used an alternate version, or it was post edited and fades out sooner then in The Doomsday Machine. Maybe Kaplan wrote the added portion at the end of that piece.

#54 of 1059 OFFLINE   Ockeghem

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Posted November 25 2008 - 04:44 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nelson Au
Hi Scott-

Thanks for the effort! And confirming the musical piece appear to sound alike.

With regards to the untouched Cage, my sense is the music is untouched on all versions and The Menagerie and those written by Alexander Courage. The only bits that are new is the music used in the newly filmed parts "wrapping" the episode, which includes that mystery music I was curious about.

So the only possible conclusion is that the mystery music was already written at the time of The Menagerie and they used an alternate version, or it was post edited and fades out sooner then in The Doomsday Machine. Maybe Kaplan wrote the added portion at the end of that piece.
Nelson,

It would have been fun (and interesting) to have asked Sol Kaplan about this. I wish he were still around....

#55 of 1059 OFFLINE   Blimpboy

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Posted November 27 2008 - 07:24 PM

The music to The Cage was altered when shown as The Menagarie. In Jeff Bond's book on the music of Star Trek he mentions that after Pike is told he is going to be reliving his memories, there was no music after the line... " We will begin with this." It was added for the two-parter. When they ported over the video form Menagarie, they left that audio mix. Just as they left out the original voice for the Talosian. I'm sure other music was tracked in as well.

#56 of 1059 OFFLINE   Neil Middlemiss

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Posted July 30 2010 - 04:28 AM

***This thread is now designated the Official Star Trek Music Discussion Thread***


"Equipped with his five senses, man explores the universe around him and calls the adventure Science" – Edwin Hubble
My DVD Collection

#57 of 1059 OFFLINE   Ockeghem

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Posted July 30 2010 - 05:34 AM

^^^


"Logical.  Flawlessly logical."


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#58 of 1059 OFFLINE   Neil S. Bulk

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Posted July 30 2010 - 01:19 PM

Read this.


Neil



#59 of 1059 OFFLINE   Neil Middlemiss

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Posted July 30 2010 - 02:21 PM



Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil S. Bulk 


Read this.






Neil




Wow!!!

From the FilmScoreMonthly post:

"Then probably in the first week or two of September—we hope—is FSM Box 05. This is the long-rumored Ron Jones box set of Star Trek: The Next Generation music. 14 discs, $149.95, limited to 5000 copies—40 complete episode scores, plus some previously unreleased "Best of Both Worlds" cues and Ron's two Interplay computer game scores. All in immaculate stereo. The packaging is in the style of the Rózsa box: the booklet has an introductory essay and track listings (and lots of ST:TNG art), with comprehensive liner notes to be posted online. Did you guys know this was my dream project? I fantasized about putting this together ever since I fell in love with the scores twenty years ago. In fact it was twenty years ago almost exactly that "The Best of Both Worlds" aired." 
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#60 of 1059 OFFLINE   Nelson Au

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Posted July 30 2010 - 02:24 PM

Thanks Neil. That Star Trek TNG set is a doozy of a set, price-wise!


Wish there was a set like that for TOS. Though there has been a lot released of real TOS scores, it seems a lot less then this set.


I have to ask and correct me if I'm wrong, I think it was Ron Jones who was fired from TNG because his scores tended to be stronger scores and the producers felt the music needed to recede. I don't recall the Jone's scores to be honest, except The Best of Both Worlds and if I'm correct, the Q Who score. That is a real shame, because all the later Star Trek series scores tended to become so generic. There such great iconic music on the original Star Trek, it becomes a part of the whole.


And the Hawaii Five-0 CD sounds interesting.




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