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What's so great about High-Def. discs?

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#1 of 43 OFFLINE   Ben Houston

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Posted January 20 2008 - 08:37 PM

Sorry if this subject has been discussed before, or if this is not the right place to discuss this, but there's some things that I need to say (forgive me if some lines are incorrect, since I am not english native). In fact, things I've been wondering for many years, at least the last 8 years.

I can see why people are so excited to explore this new technology, and everything related to high-definition. But am I the only one who believes those discs are a failure, when it comes to the space required to store all the data?

I was looking today the specs from the Star Trek - First Season boxset. 8 DVDs have stored the first season. HD-DVDs, are using 10 double-sided discs.

Well, here comes the problem. Years ago, we already have hard-disk-drives capable of store much more data than a single HD-DVD or Blu-Ray (HDDs capable of store 100 GB when HD-DVDs/Blu-Rays were not even created), and if you think about that, we should have much more larger discs today. In the old days, prototypes were under consideration, but for some rea$on (??) they were dropped.

And years later, we are so happy about something that is nothing but a major travesty!

I am really not happy with the idea of storing hundreds of discs. Even if everything is shinning, and if there's nothing left for me to buy. My collection have almost 1.000 DVDs. Not 1.000 editions, 1.000 discs. A TV show can have 45 discs, for example. A movie, 3 or 4 discs.

Why people keep insisting on using very limited disks (without enough space!!!!!!!) when it's possible today start buying things using the internet? Like musics? People are not buying CDs anymore. Why they keep buying movies, and TV shows splitted on several discs?

I don't get it.

Hard-disk-drives are even worse. At least here, any H.D.D. which stores 1 TB (930 GB to be exact) is stil very expensive (I already have 500 GB and there's not enough space at this moment).

A long time ago, companies are promising super-discs and I can't see any device capable of store all my collection (all my 1.000 discs) at a good price. HDDs are the most expensive things in the world if you plan to store videos. And the reason behind the idea of store anything on a single place (and keep the original discs as a backup) is that this is the most logical course of action.

That way, you may access all the data (and your collection) much more quickly. The same way you do to avoid inserting all your discs when you need to play a game.

You will be able to play and watch all your movies anytime, and using the resources of a computer (no doubt a computer will beat any Player in terms of options to manage your data). You may even reauthor those discs, or record your own things from TV and that way you will need to make new cases.

That last example is perfect to show how is pointless to keep making your house look like Blockbuster (and save money with packages). If we already have a place where everything is together we don't need to label 1.000 discs.

And to be honest, I don't like to deal with my own original discs, because I know they are very fragile and even the slighest thing can cause error when reading the data (exposed to the environment, people touching the discs, anything can damage them).

That's another reason I don't like to store discs! My hard-disk-drive is more reliable than my discs. Of course no one will rely on his own HDD as a way to backup the data. This is insane. But what are the chances of losing any data stored on HDDs compared to DVDs and High-Def. discs?

My 5 year-old hard-disk, running 24h/day have not let me down! However, in the last 5 years, I have experienced problems with recorded discs, even from my original collection.

In the end, that's what counts.

One more reason to threat them (DVDs and High-Def. discs) as a way of backup, not the real thing you should keep using, touching all the time and going anywhere with them.

If people have this need to admire packages (I don't have - what's inside it's more important to me), why these companies don't start to sell movies using the internet (for you to download the data) and the packages as well (to avoid buying the wrong Amaray cases when you want Digipacks), this could represent many good things such as the end of the limited copies (terrible "out of print" messages).

Something that is a major problem for many stores and should have been solved today. I am tired of surfing on websites like Amazon and seeing old products not available. That applies to movies, soundtracks, and even videogames.

A world where people can download and watch movies even in High-Definition on stream. Why not a single living soul is concerned about this and keep doing the same wrong things? Are we destined to buy the same worthless junks every generation?

Am I the only one seeing things from another perspective in this planet? I don't see what's so great about HD-DVD or Blu-Ray discs. Posted Image

#2 of 43 OFFLINE   Ric Easton

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Posted January 21 2008 - 01:04 AM

Take a look at the quality of the DVD as compared to the HD-DVD and then you'll know what's so great. As for space issues vs. having everything downloadable and the ability to put it on your hard drive... that's wghere a lot of folks think we are headed. But it may be a long time til we're there. I would say that for many of us, this is a collector's hobby and we like all those shiny discs. Also, even though yours hasn't... hard drive do fail. Losing one disc would be bad... a whole collection would be catastrophic. And, I have no way at present time to feed the programming from my computer to my home theater set-up. I have no desiire to watch Hi-def programing on my 22" computer monitor.

#3 of 43 ONLINE   Steve_Pannell


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Posted January 21 2008 - 01:44 AM

Agreed. I've had way too many hard drive failures to trust them for even my modest collection of DVDs.

#4 of 43 OFFLINE   RAF


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Posted January 21 2008 - 03:01 AM

Different strokes for different folks, Ben. I'm not saying that the scenario you paint won't come to pass for a large number of people - especially as technologies and reliability advance but here's why I still prefer the "old" ways.

This article is still relevant in today's world for a lot of us. Your mileage, as they say, might vary.

Posted Image

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#5 of 43 OFFLINE   DaveF



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Posted January 21 2008 - 03:21 AM

Sounds like you'd enjoy AppleTV, Tivo, and a Netflix subscription. You can stop storing media and watch what you want, when you want.

#6 of 43 OFFLINE   Michael Reuben

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Posted January 21 2008 - 03:30 AM

You need to get out more. A great many "living souls" have been concerned about this, talking about it and -- perhaps most importantly -- doing it for quite some time. In what part of the world do you live? Some of the latest developments may not have reached you yet. M.
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#7 of 43 OFFLINE   Craig Beam

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Posted January 21 2008 - 04:19 AM

I watched OCEAN's THIRTEEN last night, in HD, via Comcast's On Demand service. It looked like shit. Standard DVD looks better. So yeah, until streaming HD actually looks comparable to HD on disc, I'll keep doing "the same wrong things," Ben.

#8 of 43 OFFLINE   PaulDA



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Posted January 21 2008 - 04:49 AM

The general puzzlement as to why disc capacities have not grown as quickly as "expected" is, perhaps, understandable given all the hype technology and computers, especially, receive. However, I find the expectations of many to be unrealistic. There is the "CSI" phenomenon where real forensic specialists are forced to spend time in courtrooms explaining to juries why the DNA evidence is not available six minutes after it's been collected. We see cutting edge computers used in non-sci-fi movies (usually spy thrillers) and a lot of people imagine this stuff will be available some time next week at Best Buy. I remember working at a computer terminal whose "display" was a rather large roll of paper. At least I had a keyboard. The kids in the previous years at my high school got to use those lovely punch cards (and I was lucky to be at a private high school with generous benefactors--most high schools didn't have computers in them at all when I attended high school). I used to have an 8 inch single-sided floppy with 128k storage (kept it a long time but lost it in my last move) that I used as a prop when teaching modern history. Frankly, I'm amazed that I can now pick up a 1 TB drive today for the same cost as a 160GB drive 2 years ago (and I found that one to be a really great bargain). Again, different expectations. (my computer has, with the external drive, a total of 200GB of storage capacity and I think I'm up to 25 gigs--I'll probably pick up a 500GB to store my CDs in .wav format and feed that to my system somehow for convenience, but I won't stop buying discs nor will I get rid of those I have. I don't trust hard drives that much.). And as for downloading HD content--while I recently read an article about an innovative way around the current bottleneck without an entirely new infrastructure, it's still probably 5 (more like 8-10) years before it will be a practical option for the masses. I don't think HDTVs yet have 50% penetration into homes in North America, let alone what we call high speed internet (and it's not that high speed when considering the file sizes needed for a respectable HD download). So "shiny discs" will be around for another while, I should think.
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#9 of 43 OFFLINE   FrancisP



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Posted January 21 2008 - 05:23 AM

The media companies are delusional. They want to bring back the halcyonic days of dvd. Those days are not coming back. The market will be fragmented. Some people will buy on hd discs. Some people will stick with dvd. Some people will use downloads. These media companies need to come into the 21st century.

#10 of 43 OFFLINE   David Wilkins

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Posted January 21 2008 - 05:42 AM

It has been my experience, that people evolve much slower than does technology. Because a thing happens to be technically "possible", doesn't mean that there will be a large, ready-made market for a hypothetical thing; and I'm not referring specifically to downloadable hi-def movies. How many times have we been shown visions of "the future", only to see how wrong those predictions were, in hind sight? Movies on demand from a cable service are one thing, but downloading and purchasing a high quality, full 1080p movie, with HD audio and all the extras is a long way off, in my opinion. I used an Xbox to download a 720p movie from Microsoft...a fairly crappy presentation at that, and it took well over 8 hours to download, with cable high-speed internet. And infrastructure evolves even more slowly than mass markets. It was ten years from the introduction of DVD, to the introduction of HD DVD. I think it will be another ten years until we see a mass market for high quality downloads. And it will have to be a very mass market, because intermediate stages, such as the one we're in, consists mostly of geeks like us, who enjoy having the disc in their hot little hands...even better when there's exclusive packaging. Just like most people who love to read, love the feel of an actual book in their hands. Such roots lie deep in human hard-wiring. I'm not ready to be beamed aboard. I can walk just fine, thank you.

#11 of 43 OFFLINE   brap


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Posted January 21 2008 - 05:49 AM

Downloading will be a problem in the future because many North American ISPs are limiting the amount you can download per month. Possibly to encourage their own HD pay per view. Already one in Canada is currently limited 75GB up and down.

#12 of 43 OFFLINE   Brent M

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Posted January 21 2008 - 05:54 AM

And now Time-Warner Cable is testing a model in Texas where you pay for the amount of bandwidth you use each month. If they're satisfied with how that works they may go nationwide with it. Thank goodness I don't have TWC as my internet provider.
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#13 of 43 OFFLINE   Jari K

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Posted January 21 2008 - 06:28 AM

Perhaps not the only one, but definitely in minority in here. In case you didn´t noticed, this is the HD forum after all...Posted Image

#14 of 43 OFFLINE   troy evans

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Posted January 21 2008 - 06:40 AM

This says it all. I would also go as far to say that there is a thrill to finding things you want. Going out on new release day looking for titles or waiting for them in the mail. Looking for things and finding them is part of the fun. Ben, cds are no where near dead yet. Thinking downloads will replace anything at this point is premature.
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#15 of 43 OFFLINE   Carlo Medina

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Posted January 21 2008 - 06:41 AM

Well as a TWC subscriber in Los Angeles, it sounds like I need to start investigating my satellite options. Posted Image Posted Image

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#16 of 43 OFFLINE   Michael Reuben

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Posted January 21 2008 - 08:14 AM

I think this approach will only apply to their RoadRunner internet service, not to their cable TV service. They have other ways of squeezing revenue out of cable TV. M.
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#17 of 43 OFFLINE   Mike Frezon

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Posted January 21 2008 - 11:49 AM

To be fair, Ben originally posted this thread in the SD-DVD sub-forum.

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#18 of 43 OFFLINE   Robert Crawford

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Posted January 21 2008 - 12:42 PM

Which is strange, if you're going to question the importance of HD discs, why do so in the SD DVD area?

#19 of 43 OFFLINE   Mike Frezon

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Posted January 21 2008 - 03:48 PM

A good question for Benjamin. I was merely pointing out to Jari that the original question from the OP was actually being asked in the SD forum, not the HD forum. Maybe (but not wanting to assume to speak for Benjamin), the OP felt like maybe there were others in the SD area who also questioned the need to upgrade to HD discs. I have read a number of comments from people on this forum that they don't think the jump to HD media is a "significant enough" jump in technology.

There's Jessie the yodeling cowgirl. Bullseye, he's Woody's horse. Pete the old prospector. And, Woody, the man himself.Of course, it's time for Woody's RoundUp. He's the very best! He's the rootinest, tootinest cowboy in the wild, wild west!

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#20 of 43 OFFLINE   Stephen_J_H


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Posted January 21 2008 - 05:00 PM

I'm still worried that HDM may be headed for a downfall, much like the videogame collapse of the early 80s.
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