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Toshiba Deploys New HD DVD Marketing Initiatives Based on Strong Fourth Quarter Unit


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#41 of 125 OFFLINE   Scott-S

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Posted January 14 2008 - 10:17 AM

ok, I guess that makes a little sense. But then why bother with 1080p?
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#42 of 125 OFFLINE   Bryan X

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Posted January 14 2008 - 10:22 AM

I think, Scott, probably more for marketing. But, beyond that, if the player outputs 1080p then you don't have to worry if your TV de-interlaces the signal properly or not.

On the same note, this basically means spending extra for an upconverting standard DVD player if you have a proper 1080p display is probably a waste of money. You can either buy a DVD player that does the upconversion, or let the TV do it.

#43 of 125 OFFLINE   Cees Alons

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Posted January 14 2008 - 10:24 AM

Market hype.

Interlacing was invented in the 20s or 30s of the previous century, to avoid flicker on TV broadcasts. Interlaced images were better than non-interlaced (of course), but when image memory and later LCD and Plasma screens came into existence, there was no need for it.
In Europe we've had 100Hz CRT screens since the eighties, so the whole issue isn't considered very interesting here anyway. It's "played" mainly elsewhere.


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Edit: Sorry, Bryan. We said the same in parallel!
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#44 of 125 OFFLINE   Damian Howard

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Posted January 14 2008 - 10:36 AM

I wish Toshiba and there HD-DVD format actually tried to market properly to places other than the US. I would love to buy a HD-DVD player for the prices in the US at the moment but HD-DVD are still expensive over in Europe (and Blu-Ray is even more dominant than in the US)

Focusing on US primarily has meant Blu-Ray elsewhere is pretty much sealed the deal...
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#45 of 125 OFFLINE   Patrick Sun

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Posted January 14 2008 - 10:48 AM

Scott, you are confusing fields with frames.

Interlace - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Field (video - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

Deinterlacing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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#46 of 125 OFFLINE   PeterMano

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Posted January 14 2008 - 12:29 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet
Regarding this sale-price strategy of Toshiba:

my bet is that they got Paramount and Universal to hold off on going blu long enough to sell off some significant portion of their HD DVD hardware inventory. Once those two studios go blu the hardware will essentially be impossible to seel (except at DVD player prices).

Well, Toshiba's had that problem from the start. Posted Image though this latest effort isn't about getting other players on board so much as clearing out inventory so they have less to write off for the accountants at the end of the year.




There is no sale pricing strategy. Toshiba's old msrp prices are no longer viable with the loss of warner. Its either cut prices or have players glued to retail shelves and they're effectively dead.

The market determines pricing. Good luck attempting to move a 1080i hd dvd player with two studio movie support that could disappear at any time at the old msrps. How much would you pay for such a product?

I might've bought an hd dvd player standalone to replace my 360 add on for $199 canadian prior to the warner announcement. I won't now. The price will have to drop some more before I consider it.

I think its far more likely that paramount and universal both told toshiba, do something or else. The only option for them was to cut prices.

#47 of 125 OFFLINE   Adam_R

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Posted January 14 2008 - 01:27 PM

I stopped reading at "Mass Market Acceptance".

I almost choked on my schnitzel, I was laughing so hard.

Do you think they believe it?
Guess what...

#48 of 125 OFFLINE   bigluigi

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Posted January 14 2008 - 01:39 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd H
With this move Toshiba killed any chance of another manufacturer producing HD DVD players. Who would want to try and manufacture one when Toshiba is practically giving them away.
Hmmmmmmm...not as simple as all that. My opinion is that Toshiba's apparent WEAKNESS is really its STRENGTH!!! Because Toshiba has a monopoly (almost) and tremendous sales volume, they can lower their prices at will...and boy, have they got a lot of will.Posted Image

Conversely, Blu-ray's apparent STRENGTH is really its WEAKNESS. A format dominated, and I mean DOMINATED by the PS3...great for games but as a serious choice for Walmart type electronic shoppers----NOT ON YOUR LIFE!!!

Added to this fact is another one - except for Sony, and to some extent Samsung, the other Blu-ray manufacturers, well...lets be kind and just say their hardly a blip on the radar. Not much incentive or sales volume to lower prices there, I'm afraid.

Now if Universal and Paramount can do their part and Toshiba can team up with Walmart and do some of those Black Friday thingies in the next few weeks...this could amount to a marriage made in heaven for HD DVD shoppers as well as Blu-ray shoppers...might get more of those BOGOs as competition heats up again.

#49 of 125 OFFLINE   Dan_Ohio

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Posted January 14 2008 - 01:57 PM

It's nice that we look at the strategy but in the end the consumer gets screwed again. Who do you think is going to buy the HD-player? Someone that knows what is happening like you. Are you going to run out and buy one or wait for Paramount and Universal to release Blu-Ray?

Great we talk about not taking sides, but what about being informed? Best Buy does't have any disclaimer out there. Thanks for buying a CHEAP player but you only get these movies, and consolation is you get to upconvert your DVDs. Even if that was not the reason for buying the player.

Best thing for the consumer if for the Retail outlests to end HD-DVD and kill it now. Get to one format. If blu-ray is the winner don't expect your online content to be around from HD-DVD. Greed is all it is.

If HD-DVD won I be on the otherside, but it didn't happen so face facts and pick a fomat. If Divx had there way during DVD versus Divx we be paying for pay per view and throwing the sell distructing discs away.

Hopefully you tell your friends what they ae getting a cheap player with a very shady future and little content. I would recommend not wasting your money!

One last thing. My Walmart has the HD-DVD behind the salesfloor. I was told they are there only for a special promotion and if you want one you have to ask. Way to go Wally world sell those cheap machines and build customer loyalty........ Bet your customers don't return again.

#50 of 125 OFFLINE   Dan_Ohio

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Posted January 14 2008 - 02:05 PM

Sorry you get one more tonight from me. It is a crime that the CNET coverage of Warner switching is omitted from the Best Buy Website. Come on. Either report all the news or put a disclaimer that the reports were selected based upon what will sell more of what we have in stock.

I think my rewards card might be switching to another store! I look at the ethics of stores where I shop. It's getting hard to find a place.

Before you go to exclusivity. Both sides starte there so there were no companies looking out for the consumer. HD-DVD just couldn't pay enough, which is what it's weakness was.

#51 of 125 OFFLINE   Todd Stout

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Posted January 14 2008 - 02:24 PM

I think Toshiba's new marketing strategy is pretty smart. Selling HD-DVD players as upconverting DVD players with the added bonus of being able to play whatever HD-DVDs are out there seems pretty logical to me. Now that HD-DVD player prices have dropped even further they'll probably move quite a few more units.

I'm going to preface my next comments by saying that I currently do not own either a Blu-Ray or HD-DVD player... yet. I do have an HD ready TV so I have been watching the "format war" with great interest. I find it interesting that so many people are so quick to call Blu Ray the winner since Warner's announcement about dropping HD-DVD support. It seems to me that HD-DVD going away will make Blu Ray more likely to succeed but that is no guarantee. I can't help but think back to other format wars of the recent past and wonder if either Blu-Ray or HD-DVD will be successful. A few short years ago DVD-A and SACD were battling each other to be the replacement for the CD. Now I really don't see or hear much of anything about either one. Even further back MiniDisc and Digital Compact Cassette were competing to be the next big home recording medium. Both of those formats are pretty much just fading memories now.

Anyway... I can't help but wonder if either Blu-Ray or HD-DVD will ever replace the lowly DVD. I'm still tempted to buy into HD-DVD to play around with now that I can get a player for $129 and then get a Blu Ray player once the profile 2.0 players hit the market. Decisions... desisions...

#52 of 125 OFFLINE   Alfonso_M

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Posted January 14 2008 - 04:31 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan_Ohio
Hopefully you tell your friends what they ae getting a cheap player with a very shady future and little content. I would recommend not wasting your money!


This is exactly what I've been telling all my friends for the past year about Blu-ray, now I recommend to them not to buy any Hi-Def players at all.

I don't see how could an honest and "informed" person ever recommend to a friend to buy an expensive stand along Blu player now, when all this players are already out dated and will be replaced in the coming months. (with even more expensive models)

Not to mention that most likely all the Blu media available out there today will be re-issue later again (requiring double–dipping for many current Blu-ray fans) with the extra features and Blu-Live content that should’ve been included on the discs in the first place.( like HD-DVD is offering now).

Thumbs up to Toshiba for not capitulating, and good luck to Sony and the Blu-Studios, (and all HDM fans out there) because the best and possibly the only chance for a Hi-Def DVD format to reach the masses will die once the affordable HD-DVD is gone forever.



IMO, Sony's Blu will follow in the foot steps of SACD.

#53 of 125 OFFLINE   Jonathan Kaye

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Posted January 15 2008 - 12:44 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfonso_M
the best and possibly the only chance for a Hi-Def DVD format to reach the masses will die once the affordable HD-DVD is gone forever.

You forget that whichever format "wins" has only won the right to compete against DVD. DVD is incredibly affordable, and if the more expensive format wins the hi-def war now it still has to remain competitive price-wise against DVD.

DVD had no competition and player prices dropped over time, and I fully expect Blu-ray player prices to drop over time in the same way, in order to ensure mass market acceptance.
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#54 of 125 OFFLINE   Dave>h

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Posted January 15 2008 - 02:14 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan Kaye
DVD had no competition and player prices dropped over time, and I fully expect Blu-ray player prices to drop over time in the same way, in order to ensure mass market acceptance.

You seem to forget that whole VHS debacle that lasted for nearly 20 years. DVD had competition, just not competition from a shiny disk. Once VHS machine prices started to drop, so did DVD players.

I didn't consider DVD as competition with Blu (or HD DVD) but I guess once we have a single format, that will be the next battle and that may actually force Blu to lower their player prices. Currently though, Bluy ray prices are extortionate.


Quote:
This is exactly what I've been telling all my friends for the past year about Blu-ray, now I recommend to them not to buy any Hi-Def players at all.

I don't see how could an honest and "informed" person ever recommend to a friend to buy an expensive stand along Blu player now, when all this players are already out dated and will be replaced in the coming months. (with even more expensive models)

Not to mention that most likely all the Blu media available out there today will be re-issue later again (requiring double–dipping for many current Blu-ray fans) with the extra features and Blu-Live content that should’ve been included on the discs in the first place.( like HD-DVD is offering now).

Thumbs up to Toshiba for not capitulating, and good luck to Sony and the Blu-Studios, (and all HDM fans out there) because the best and possibly the only chance for a Hi-Def DVD format to reach the masses will die once the affordable HD-DVD is gone forever.

I so agree with this comment.

Dave

#55 of 125 OFFLINE   Adam_R

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Posted January 15 2008 - 02:25 AM

once a stand alone blu player reaches the magic $99 or below mark, mass market acceptance will ensue.

$49 DVD players will no longer be competition.

Give it a year or 2. DVD players didn't hit $99 for a few years and neither will Blu players.
Guess what...

#56 of 125 OFFLINE   Keith Paynter

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Posted January 15 2008 - 03:13 AM

Am I the only one questioning why an HD hardware discussion is posted (and thriving) in HD software? I'm also amazed (but not surprised) that people are format bashing again. Now, let me get down off that soapbox...

If Toshiba doesn't slash their prices, they'll have a lot of inventory on their hands. Not that the war is definitively over, but the retail community isn't necessarily going to continue to invest in a format with limited studio support, and would rather devote shelf space to a definitive winner, in both hardware and software. Retailers will be looking for compensation for returned players and on rebates handed out based on price reductions. If Toshiba were digging in their heels for a real fight, they would be preparing to introduce new models, bringing in more brand-name manufacturers, or possibly trying to negotiate dual format players in order to keep generating revenue for their technology (which I'm sure they already get for standard DVD players).

Trying to court studios back to HD will not happen without a very deep set of pockets, and even then I'm sure BR exclusive studios are not going to do this without winding up with a major lack of credibilty when it eventually comes time to become part of the next big thing in a physical content delivery format.

As good as these formats are, we are still at this point where we're dealing with niche market pentration that, on the hardware front, is on par with or lower than laserdisc (although better promoted).

Quote:
$49 DVD players will no longer be competition.

Remember when first generation DVD players were $800 plus, and the software looked like crap on them?

Players dropping in price will not necessarily mean an immediate investment in 1080i television or 7.1 home theater purchases either. HD and BR players with composite/S-Video and analog stereo output will look and sound the same as a SD DVD or cable on a 480p television. Television moving to total Hi-Def in 2009 will not force the average consumer to upgrade either.
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#57 of 125 OFFLINE   Shane Martin

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Posted January 15 2008 - 11:57 AM

Quote:
Thumbs up to Toshiba for not capitulating, and good luck to Sony and the Blu-Studios, (and all HDM fans out there) because the best and possibly the only chance for a Hi-Def DVD format to reach the masses will die once the affordable HD-DVD is gone forever.
Sour grapes must taste interesting.

#58 of 125 OFFLINE   DaViD Boulet

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Posted January 15 2008 - 12:09 PM

Quote:
Thumbs up to Toshiba for not capitulating, and good luck to Sony and the Blu-Studios, (and all HDM fans out there) because the best and possibly the only chance for a Hi-Def DVD format to reach the masses will die once the affordable HD-DVD is gone forever.

Just like DVD never made it to the masses because of its high prices year-two as well. Pity.
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#59 of 125 ONLINE   Robert Crawford

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Posted January 15 2008 - 12:14 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet
Just like DVD never made it to the masses because of its high prices year-two as well. Pity.
Today, consumers are spoiled by the low prices compared to what happened ten years ago. Furthermore, the economy was doing better and people were really spending money back then.

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#60 of 125 OFFLINE   DaViD Boulet

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Posted January 15 2008 - 12:26 PM

Quote:
Today, consumers are spoiled by the low prices compared to what happened ten years ago. Furthermore, the economy was doing better and people were really spending money back then.

Then why did the $299 BD players outsell Toshiba's low-cost HD DVD players over Christmas?

BD player prices will steadily fall. For folks to continue to suggest that BD player prices will forever be higher-cost is a willful desire to not acknowlege what's not only been been plainly stated by the BDA and the manufacturers themselves, but also is consistent with the CE industry: to amortize their profits over the first few years of the product's life cycle so that can recover their R&D costs before player prices, of course, fall to commodity levels.

Every other product in history as gone through this same cycle except for HD DVD, which Toshiba saw fit to price below profit in order to gain an early foothold with the market, despite the lack of long-term viability with that pricing model (hence so few other manuacturers producing HD DVD gear).
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