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Toshiba Deploys New HD DVD Marketing Initiatives Based on Strong Fourth Quarter Unit


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#21 of 125 Jay Gregory

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Posted January 14 2008 - 07:02 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet
According to several insiders, this press release from Toshiba was prepared in December *before* the WB announcement, which is (one reason) why there's no mention of it in the statement.

And why would Toshiba mention that they are losing WB support in a press release touting new marketing initiatives?

What would they say?

We've still got WB support for the next 4 1/2 months!

Best of luck in the future, WB! It's been great fun! Sorry that it didn't work out, but we're soldiering on!

Regardless of when this was prepared, I don't think it would be considered an appropriate vehicle to discuss WB's impending departure.

But I dunno...

#22 of 125 Cees Alons

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Posted January 14 2008 - 07:06 AM

A "No more DVD" strategy would solve another potential problem signaled by many opposed to the "format war": J6P not having bought into HD being confused. The disc in the brown/red case WILL play on his/her player.


Cees

#23 of 125 bigluigi

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Posted January 14 2008 - 07:07 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanjay Gupta
I suppose this means that many more are going to get suckered into buying a losing format. At this stage of the format war, I think it is time for forums, such as this one, to take a stand and support a single format. Regardless of the merits or demerits of each individual format, the way things stand at this stage, how can anyone in their true conscious recommend that a newbie buy into HD-DVD. In the last few days there have been several posts stating that the fat lady has not sung yet and that may be true to an extent, but the fact remains that there is no way the HD-DVD format can sustain itself with just the two studios supporting it. Thus, leaving personal biases and opinions aside, the fact is that Blu-Ray is here to stay and thus it is the only logical choice, for anyone new to the HD scene.
Sanjay,
I bought my HD-A2 in June, 2007 when Universal was the ONLY HD-DVD exclusive studio. Why? Because of PRICE ($244 Vs BR $500) and because of Universal's catalog titles.
What is with you Blu-ray supporters??? It's like your all clones...all bred with the same message---Kill HD-DVD by any means possible!!!
If Toshiba wishes to continue selling HD-DVD players....what's the big deal???
If Universal and Paramount wish to continue supporting HD-DVD....what's the problem???
Let the market forces and consumers decide. Choice of product is one of the corner stones of a free market system and should not be "auctioned" away.
BTW, I was not "suckered into buying a losing format." As a HD-DVD user and supporter I will NOT be made to appear as a "victim" in my choice of format. The HD-A2 has provided many hours of movie enjoyment. I have absolutely NO REGRETS concerning this purchase and I would recommend to anyone that enjoys the added benefits of greater title selections to buy the Toshiba HD-DVD player.

#24 of 125 Doug_H

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Posted January 14 2008 - 07:31 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigluigi
I bought my HD-A2 in June, 2007 when Universal was the ONLY HD-DVD exclusive studio. Why? Because of PRICE ($244 Vs BR $500) and because of Universal's catalog titles.
What is with you Blu-ray supporters??? It's like your all clones...all bred with the same message---Kill HD-DVD by any means possible!!!
If Toshiba wishes to continue selling HD-DVD players....what's the big deal???
If Universal and Paramount wish to continue supporting HD-DVD....what's the problem???
Let the market forces and consumers decide. Choice of product is one of the corner stones of a free market system and should not be "auctioned" away.
BTW, I was not "suckered into buying a losing format." As a HD-DVD user and supporter I will NOT be made to appear as a "victim" in my choice of format. The HD-A2 has provided many hours of movie enjoyment. I have absolutely NO REGRETS concerning this purchase and I would recommend to anyone that enjoys the added benefits of greater title selections to buy the Toshiba HD-DVD player.

I agree 100%!
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#25 of 125 Robin_B

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Posted January 14 2008 - 07:41 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigluigi
Sanjay,

BTW, I was not "suckered into buying a losing format." As a HD-DVD user and supporter I will NOT be made to appear as a "victim" in my choice of format. The HD-A2 has provided many hours of movie enjoyment. I have absolutely NO REGRETS concerning this purchase and I would recommend to anyone that enjoys the added benefits of greater title selections to buy the Toshiba HD-DVD player.

He didn't say YOU were suckered into buying a losing format. You obviously already had a player before WB made their decision. Anybody who has not kept up with the latest news and buys a player for which the software may soon dry up will be.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigluigi
If Toshiba wishes to continue selling HD-DVD players....what's the big deal???
If Universal and Paramount wish to continue supporting HD-DVD....what's the problem???

I drags an unnecessary war out longer than it needs to. Sure if all the studios were going to support both formats then both could probably live happily side by side, but that obviously isn't going to happen. There is a great pool of anxious HD enthusiasts (like me) who are sitting out this war until one side or the other wins. The sooner that happens the better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigluigi
What is with you Blu-ray supporters??? It's like your all clones...all bred with the same message---

I think the same could be said for either side of this debate
"Yeah but secreted from what?"

#26 of 125 Brandon Conway

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Posted January 14 2008 - 07:41 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cees Alons
A "No more DVD" strategy would solve another potential problem signaled by many opposed to the "format war": J6P not having bought into HD being confused. The disc in the brown/red case WILL play on his/her player.

Except all of those other currently released titles that won't. Posted Image

"And now the reprimand, from an American critic. He reproaches me for using film as a sacred & lasting medium, like a painting or a book. He does not believe that filmmaking is an inferior art, but he believes, and quite rightly, that a reel goes quickly, that the public are looking above all for relaxation, that film is fragile and that it is pretentious to express the power of one's soul by such ephemeral and delicate means, that Charlie Chaplin's or Buster Keaton's first films can only be seen on very rare and badly spoiled prints. I add that the cinema is making daily progress and that eventually films that we consider marvelous today will soon be forgotten because of new dimensions & colour. This is true. But for 4 weeks this film [The Blood of a Poet] has been shown to audiences that have been so attentive, so eager & so warm, that I wonder after all there is not an anonymous public who are looking for more than relaxation in the cinema." - Jean Cocteau, 1932


#27 of 125 Steve Schaffer

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Posted January 14 2008 - 08:01 AM

I work in a Sears electronics dept. We've had a few customers come in and ask about BD players having heard that the "format war is over". When told the cheapest price of entry is $399 they walk out empty-handed.
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#28 of 125 Stephen_J_H

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Posted January 14 2008 - 08:18 AM

And therein lies the rub.
"My opinion is that (a) anyone who actually works in a video store and does not understand letterboxing has given up on life, and (b) any customer who prefers to have the sides of a movie hacked off should not be licensed to operate a video player."-- Roger Ebert

#29 of 125 Bryan X

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Posted January 14 2008 - 08:55 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott-S
I wonder if people realize that the HD-A3 is only 1080i?

If you have a 1080p display, it simply doesn't matter whether you feed it a 1080i or a 1080p signal. The resulting displayed image will be 1080p. As long as your TV correctly de-interlaces there is no difference in the resulting image from a 1080i versus 1080p player.

It's just not an issue.

As for HD DVD, I think this is too little, too late. I bought an HD DVD player a few months ago and am dispointed in it's apparent demise. Deep down I'm still hopefull they can pull something out, but if not, I'm out a couple hundred bucks. I've wasted more than that on other $hit.

#30 of 125 Cees Alons

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Posted January 14 2008 - 08:58 AM

Quote:
If you have a 1080p display, it simply doesn't matter whether you feed it a 1080i or a 1080p signal.
Correct, Bryan!


Cees

#31 of 125 Scott-S

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Posted January 14 2008 - 08:59 AM

Quote:
there is no difference in the resulting image from a 1080i versus 1080p player.

Yes there is. You have half the data, you have flickering on pan shots of skyscrapers, etc.

There is a big difference between getting every other line and getting all the lines.

If your statement was correct, why do they even make 1080p stuff?
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#32 of 125 DaViD Boulet

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Posted January 14 2008 - 09:06 AM

Regarding 1080i-> 1080p conversion:

with *film source material* you can get complete frame-reconstruction as long as the deinterlacer does the proper 3-2 pulldown reversal on the incoming 1080i60 feed.

The number of TVs that do this "3-2 pulldown" with 480i is pretty comprehensive. But the number of TVs that do it properly with 1080i is less common, though growing.

It's hardly a non-issue for anyone who's display does *not* do the proper pulldown, though I agree with the steady flow of newer and better HD displays that apply 3-2 pulldown reversal to film-based 1080i60 signals, it's a moot point.



Quote:
A "No more DVD" strategy would solve another potential problem signaled by many opposed to the "format war": J6P not having bought into HD being confused. The disc in the brown/red case WILL play on his/her player.

As long as those unsuspecting consumers manage to place that disc in their DVD drawer right-side-up. I can imagine the calls to the customer service line now... consumers not realizing that one side of the disc won't play in their DVD machine.

Posted Image
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#33 of 125 Bryan X

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Posted January 14 2008 - 09:23 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Boulet
It's hardly a non-issue for anyone who's display does *not* do the proper pulldown

Agreed, which is why I qualified my statement by saying "If your TV correctly de-interlaces" the signal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott-S
Yes there is. You have half the data, you have flickering on pan shots of skyscrapers, etc.

No, you still have the whole image. Your 1080p TV always displays a 1080p image regardless of what you feed it (of course if you feed it a 480 signal it has to create the additional lines). So if your TV correctly de-interlaces the 1080i signal it is putting all the lines back into 1080p before it displays them. Hence, no difference.

#34 of 125 bigluigi

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Posted January 14 2008 - 09:43 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ReggieW
If the exclusive HD-DVD studios do not issue some stellar catalog releases to go along with these price drops, then this whole campaign will be pointless. If I don't see similar follow-ups from Universal/Paramount within the next two weeks, then it'll be over imho.
Soooo true...but I have to believe that some kind of release agreement has been reached. I remember reading several months ago on the "Bits" that BRAVEHEART might be released on HD-DVD. Also, I think it was in this forum, someone alluding to a Spielberg title being released by Universal during this quarter.
Posted Image Perhaps it's time for Fox to fire back with some grandiose new release title announcements. Anybody...anybody. SOMEBODY!!! Beyond stale title announcements, what else can we look forward to in 2008 in the way of new releases???

#35 of 125 Todd H

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Posted January 14 2008 - 09:49 AM

With this move Toshiba killed any chance of another manufacturer producing HD DVD players. Who would want to try and manufacture one when Toshiba is practically giving them away.

#36 of 125 DaViD Boulet

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Posted January 14 2008 - 09:50 AM

Regarding this sale-price strategy of Toshiba:

my bet is that they got Paramount and Universal to hold off on going blu long enough to sell off some significant portion of their HD DVD hardware inventory. Once those two studios go blu the hardware will essentially be impossible to seel (except at DVD player prices).

Quote:
With this move Toshiba killed any chance of another manufacturer producing HD DVD players. Who would want to try and manufacture one when Toshiba is practically giving them away.

Well, Toshiba's had that problem from the start. Posted Image though this latest effort isn't about getting other players on board so much as clearing out inventory so they have less to write off for the accountants at the end of the year.


Quote:
No, you still have the whole image. Your 1080p TV always displays a 1080p image regardless of what you feed it (of course if you feed it a 480 signal it has to create the additional lines). So if your TV correctly de-interlaces the 1080i signal it is putting all the lines back into 1080p before it displays them. Hence, no difference.

If the display doesn't do proper 3-2 pulldown, then the way it fills in the skipped lines in the 1080i signal is be repeating every line twice. This creates a slight blur-effect when the image is viewed side-by-side with the 1080p native image, and it called "bobbing". It was a cheap way out (basically it's "fake" deinterlacing if you will) that almost all manufacturers used to use with deinterlacing 1080i signals. Thankfully, more and more displays are doing it correctly to provide the full resolution fidelity of the 1080p original when they do 3-2 pulldown reversal. But if they don't, the vertical resolution of the image is noticably softened in comparison.
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#37 of 125 Adam Gregorich

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Posted January 14 2008 - 10:01 AM

Quote:
I think it is time for forums, such as this one, to take a stand and support a single format


like DVD? Posted Image (I just couldn't resist).

I think Toshiba talking about the upconversion is their way of keeping their product at retail, and trying to get people who aren't ready to step up to HD yet to get their player and use it with their current DVDs. Considering their lack of options it's a decent strategy. I don't believe these prices were planned before WB, and I don't think it's a fire sale to clear out their wharehouse before they kill the format. It's their way of starting to fight back.

#38 of 125 Scott-S

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Posted January 14 2008 - 10:08 AM

In a 1080i signal, the player will send only half of the lines for a frame (odd or even) Then on the next frame, it sends the other. If the images changes between then, you get artifacts. 1080p players send both the odd and the even at the same time so this is not an issue. This is why watching sports on 720p is better than 1080i.

If 1080i was as good as 1080p then why do they even bother with 1080p?

There is 2x the information ion a 1080p signal. And I am pretty sure the blu-ray and hd-dvd discs are mastered at 1080p. So if your player is only sending odd, then even it takes twice as long to get he full frame. This shows up when watching images with high speed changes.

I am really confused how the same crowd that is worried about lossless audio does not seem to think there are benefits from 1080p outputs.
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#39 of 125 Bryan X

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Posted January 14 2008 - 10:11 AM

Ugh. I give up. I'm sure someone else can explain it better than I.

#40 of 125 Cees Alons

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Posted January 14 2008 - 10:12 AM

Quote:
If the images changes between then, you get artifacts
In real time signals, like TV broadcasts, that could be true. If the image elements are the two halves of a scanned film frame, it isn't.


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