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least expensive true DTS-HD DD-HD reciever?


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#1 of 16 OFFLINE   Bmoney

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Posted January 02 2008 - 02:54 AM

I was wondering what the least expensive reciver featured these formats. I am asking caus ei just got a new rreciever last year. and want to spend the least amount to upgrade. Thanks in advance!

#2 of 16 OFFLINE   Kevin Alexander

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Posted January 02 2008 - 03:14 AM

Onkyo 605 will be the least that can internally decode the new HD-Audio formats. If you check often, factory refurbs can be found substantially discounted here... Shop Onkyo
"What does God want with a Starship?" - Captain Kirk from Star Trek V: The Final Frontier.

"For the first few minutes of the film, I had accidently listened to the Dolby Digital track." - Ron Epstein (HTF)

#3 of 16 OFFLINE   Bmoney

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Posted January 02 2008 - 03:19 AM

great! thanks for the link!

#4 of 16 OFFLINE   Dave Moritz

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Posted January 02 2008 - 03:43 AM

While Onkyo does offer one of the cheapest receivers with lossless decoding. Just keep in mind that the Onkyo's do suffer from poor analog video sections. And the internal amplifiers run way to hot so if this does not bother you then they are a decent purchase otherwise. IMHO the amplifier section could sound better even at the price point. But after all that I feel they are still a better choice over Sony or Sherwood Newcastle.

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#5 of 16 OFFLINE   Seth=L

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Posted January 02 2008 - 05:55 AM

Sorry, but I am going to have to contest that. The TX-SR605 does not run that hot. The TX-SR805 and up are the hot running receivers. The sound quality of the Onkyo TX-SR605 is the same as any other receiver and comparable in power and features to competitively priced models. And there is nothing wrong with Sherwood Newcastle either. I can't comment on the video switching on the Onkyo TX-SR605.

#6 of 16 OFFLINE   TK2K

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Posted January 02 2008 - 08:30 AM

$379 at amazon
http://www.amazon.co....9309415&sr=8-2

#7 of 16 OFFLINE   Dave Moritz

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Posted January 02 2008 - 09:15 AM

I honestly do not think its the upper models that are the only ones that run hot. The Onkyo's that are used in the HTB also run hot. So I does not make sense that only the middle model are not running hot. They all have the same WRAT amplifier technology which to this day has not impressed me. If feel there previous amplifiers where much better sounding than the ones they use today. And as far as Sherwood Newcastle goes if you like it that is great. But I would not have a Sherwood Newcastle in my HT for any reason. I would rather have the Onkyo TX-S805 as I feel it has better build quality than the SN, and I honestly do not see a Onkyo TX-S805 ending up in my HT even if it was for evaluation purposes. But for $379 I have to admit thats a great price for the Onkyo TX-S605. It would be very hard to get a HDMI 1.3 receiver with Dolby True HD and DTS-HD MA decoding on any other brand for under $400. If you are looking for a low dollar receiver with all the bells and whistles maybe you should pull the trigger on this one? I was looking at alot of different receivers and after doing some critical listening I wrote the Onkyo TX-S805 off my list. I also wrote off the Onkyo TX-S875, Onkyo TX-N905, Sherwood Newcastle R-872, Sony STR-DA4300 ES and the Sony STR-DA5300 ES. But I guess for $379 it might be hard for someone to pass up the Onkyo TX-S605.

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#8 of 16 OFFLINE   Seth=L

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Posted January 02 2008 - 12:04 PM

I don't want you to feel like I am picking on you here, but what is it about Onkyo's amplifiers that you do not like? WRAT is a name, and IMO, a gimmick. Their amplifier design isn't dramatically different from other manufacturers. A double blind level matched test could confirm SQ differences between receivers, and I have done to some small scale, and I can't tell the difference between receivers. Maybe I am deaf, I would sure hope not being so young, but I think that amplification is pretty much perfected.

#9 of 16 OFFLINE   gene c

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Posted January 02 2008 - 01:15 PM

Are you saying all receivers sound the same???? Even with different power supplies, dac's, DSP's and all that other stuff in there? I'm not saying the difference is huge but there must be a difference.
"Everyday room": Panasonic 58" Plasma, Dish HD DVR, Pioneer Elite vsx-23, BDP-23 BR, dv58avi universal dvd player, Paradigm Studio 20 V1, CC-450, Dayton HSU-10 subwoofer.

"Movie/Music room": Toshiba 65" DLP, Dish HD receiver, Marantz 7005, CC-4003, BD-7006, Polk LSI25's-LSi7's-LSiC, 2 original Dayton 10" "Mighty-Mites" subwoofers. (subject to change without notice).
 
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#10 of 16 OFFLINE   Bmoney

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Posted January 02 2008 - 01:51 PM

i may pull the trigger! this is a steal!

#11 of 16 OFFLINE   Dave Moritz

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Posted January 02 2008 - 02:34 PM


1. I believe that there has been others here that will say otherwise about the heat issue. I have also had salespeople acknowledge heat issues with Onkyo and a few of them worked for an Onkyo dealer. I thought the sound of the Onkyo was dull and lacked transparency and lacked good highs and lower end bass reproduction. The video section seemed to degrade the analog video from the dvd player. And the Onkyo TX-SR805 and the Onkyo TX-N905 seemed to run to hot. My roommate owns the Onkyo HT-R530 HTIB which runs hot even at low volumes and seems to degrade the video using the component video. This receiver does not have HDMI so the only choice is to use the component, which should produce good results with dvd or cable. It should even do a good job at high definition as well as component will pass 1080i.


Onkyo TX-SR875 7.1 Channel THX Home Theater Receiver With HQV Video Processing - Product Review
This is a review covering the Onkyo TX-SR875

ONKYO HTIB receiver - hot temperature
This is a Onkyo HT-S790 HTIB owner

Onkyo TX-SR805 (black) Ratings. AV receivers User Opinions.
This is a CNET review of the Onkyo TX-SR805

Onkyo TX-SR805 AV Receiver Review — Audioholics Home Theater Reviews and News
This is a Audioholics review of the Onkyo TX-SR805

Onkyo TX-SR674 XM Ready home theater receiver with HDMI video switching and conversion at Crutchfield.com
This is from a Crutchfield page regarding the Onkyo TX-SR674

2. If you use the receiver's upconverting it has been reported that turning on upconverting 480 HDMI input to 720p, will also make it downgrade 1080 HDMI input to 720p.


So even with the problems I see with the Onkyo's the Onkyo TX-SR605 at $379 is still a steel. Let's be honest at that price what receiver will you find with the same features? All you can do is provide plenty of space for it to cool and hope for the best.

Not all amplifiers sound alike, some sound bright, some are very neutral sounding. Some amps can sound very warm while others sound very dynamic and have alot of headroom. Now even though I would not buy the Onkyo personally, I would rather own it over a Sony ES, Kenwood, JVC or Sherwood Newcastle. For a HT on a budget the Onkyo with some of it short comings is still a decent deal especially for the price of $379. A Onkyo TX-SR605 coupled with a Toshiba HD-A35 could be a nice comblination with some good sounding speakers.

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#12 of 16 OFFLINE   Seth=L

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Posted January 03 2008 - 08:33 AM

LOL, which JVCs have you had?Posted Image

I have owned many receivers. I have owned one Sony, and it sucked (not because of sound, just cheaply built and had lots of issues), one Denon (had some problems with sound on DVD menus, but I feel this was an isolated incident), one Sherwood (two if you count the Insignia receiver's Best Buy now carries, absolutely no problems and sound just as good as any other receiver operating within design parameters), three Yamaha receivers (no problems with these either, also no sound differences), three Onkyo receivers (Some problems with one of them, no sound differences), three JVC receivers (no problems, and no sound differences), one Teac (no problems, no sound differences), three Pioneer receivers (some problems with one receiver, no sound differences), and two Kenwood receivers (horrible receivers, crappy build and unreliable, no sound differences).

I have also had some separates. Carver, Rotel, and Kenwood stuff. The Kenwood amplifiers weren't really comparable in terms of power to the Carver stuff.

Now what I have noticed that sounds different, speakers. Speakers, room acoustics and source material dictate most of your sound, backing the speakers with the right amount of power makes up the rest.

Building neutral amplifiers is no difficult task for most audio manufacturers.

#13 of 16 OFFLINE   Dave Moritz

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Posted January 03 2008 - 10:26 AM

I have owned a number of receivers, intergrated amps and preamp set up over the years. And I find that there are some differences when you turn them up and push them there weaknesses come through. And I find that there are also minor differences if you really sit and listen to them. Not every brand is going to sound different but there are brands out there that have a slightly different flavor in sound when compared to the other. I am not talking about total night and day differences. One of the main differences is how stable and clean the amp runs at peak volume and at lower impedance levels. Some amplifiers will distort and clip while others will sound great. Some amplifiers will have a very neutral soundstage and some will have a very bright and upfront soundstage. I honestly do not subcribe to the idea that all amplifiers sound alike. That would be like saying there is no difference between a Kenwood receiver and a Adcom or a JVC and a McIntosh or a Sherwood and a Krell.

I have owned 1 Kenwood, 1 MCS, 2 Pioneer, 2 Onkyo, 1 Denon, 1 Marantz, 1 McIntosh, 1 Yamaha (My current receiver) and a Sherwood. My brother has owned 1 Kenwood, 1 JVC, 1 Onkyo and 3 Pioneers. My father has owned Kenwood, Pioneer, McIntosh, Crown, Denon, Marantz and Onkyo.

Now I can honestly say that my Yamaha is alot more stought than my brothers JVC. While I have run my Yamaha RX-V995 (5.1 DD/DTS) with dual 15" woofers on the left and right channels, center channel and 1 pair of speakers on the rear channel. When my brother trys to run his JVC with a pair of JVC speakers and a pair of Infinity speakers, when he turns it up the amp clips and it not only sounds harsh but it also lacks dynamics as well. I could run more speakers and at louder volumes and never clip and the sound was 5 times better from low levels to reference. The best set up I ever had was my McItosh MX-130 and a set of Adcom power amps, my x kept the power amps. And I traded the McIthosh when i was married because the wife would not let me spend the money to upgrade it so I could add a DD/DTS processing to it, dam that was a nice set up for its day.

So I have had a lot of exsposure to different brands over the years and spent a good deal of time listening to all of these set ups. The Sony ES receivers with the so called digital amps sound harsh and lack high end detail, basically I hate them. I have also not been a fan of the way the surround processors sound in the Sony receivers. I also so far am not that crazy about the new Onkyo's but maybe I did not spend enough time listening to it? Its a really clean and classy looking piece of equipment but at the time I listened to it I was not blown away and I did not like the heat issue. Usually when I go demo gear at my local retailer I take my favorite CD's and a few DVD's. It all depends on what I am going to demo at the time, on of my demo dvd's is my DTS vol. 8 demonstration disc. Sometimes when I listen to something I have a bad habit of analyzing the sound instead of just listening to it. I also for a number of year had friends that where in bands when I lived in California. I set up the gear and would run the soundboard for them. My father also ways had new gear when I was growing up and many time it was the exspensive stuff so maybe thats why I analyze stuff so much now? Posted Image

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#14 of 16 OFFLINE   Echo42987

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Posted January 03 2008 - 10:36 AM

My personal opinion to the guy who started the thread is to get the TXSR605. But for the two of you I would like to comment on a few of your comments. Onkyo recievers are known for running warm to hot. They have since there new line up came out in 04-05. It's always been a problem but not a problem to be truly concerned with. Sound does differ from one reciever to another due to different processing, wattage, etc. Also video processing on the onkyo players isn't so hot. Finally, your comment on the kenwoods being horrible products is your own opinion same with everything I just stated. But a fact is a fact and thats final. Some other people might not agree with your statement saying that kenwood models are horrible when they use to be a very solid build and great product to buy for home theater. -Nick-
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#15 of 16 OFFLINE   Dave Moritz

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Posted January 03 2008 - 11:05 AM

I remember back in the 80's when I had a Kenwood intergrated stereo amp that was rated around 75 watts/channel. And a friend had a Fisher Intergrated amplifier that was rated at 100 watts/channel. I had gutted my Kenwood speakers and replaced the components with Pyle Driver dome tweeter, 5" mid and 10" woofer with a 3 way cross over. The fisher had a hard time driving my speakers while my Kenwood did not. My Kenwood came close to frying his Fisher speakers and I can still remember the look on my friends face when he though I was going to fry them. Fast foward to when Kenwood came out with the THX certified preamp / multi channel power amp setup, I honestly can not remember the year. But I remember that Kenwood had a tractor trailer rig touring the country. They had a projector set up with the Kenwood surround sound set up to demonstrate what Kenwood could do for a HT. The demo was a total farce and after talking to the factory rep he admitied to me after everyone had left that they where using high end comercial amplifiers instead of the Kenwood. Lets say that Kenwood IMHO is a shadow of what they used to be and I lost any respect for them as well.

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#16 of 16 OFFLINE   Seth=L

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Posted January 03 2008 - 06:11 PM

I am not going to quote anyone, but I will respond as best possible Now we are talking about limitations of each receiver, now this I completely agree with. I don't expect the Onkyo TX-SR605 to stack up against any Rotel receiver in terms of drive (low impedance handling), and overall output. Facing these facts that the Rotels will have more powerful transformers, a larger capacitor bank and a heftier output stage, it stands to reason it will sound better when pressed. I have a JVC RX-DP9 home theater receiver that was one of JVC's few flagship receivers (only 4 DP models where produced) and they are fantastic machines. They have incredible amounts of power and can drive 4 ohm loads very well. I just want to make it clear, that I do think amplification makes a difference, and so does processing to a degree, but not in a sense that they sound different when operating under their design limitations. DSP modes of course sound different, because they aren't meant to sound alike on each system. Dolby Digital and DTS standard modes sound pretty much the same if not completely identical on most systems, unless they are just poorly designed. You not liking the Onkyo for the sound could simply be listener's bias. You already have a perceived notion about Onkyo and what it should sound like according to reviews and your brain just does the rest for you. I used to be the same way, but level matched DBTs open my eyes (ears). My mention of Kenwood being crap refers to their more recent gear. I have seen and briefly used some of the older Kenwood integrated amplifiers and they are pretty nice. Kenwood used to make some fine equipment. The best the Kenwood had in recent years turned out to be a big flop, the Sovereign series gear was hideous to look at. I don't know if it was good or not, but man was it an ugly affair. If I recall, they used some form of switching amplifier like the Sony ES models of the last couple years. It is worth noting that Sony's most recent line does not use Class D amplifiers and are back to Class A/B (but get this, every receiver in the ES line weighs the same, so it is likely they all have the same basic amplifier in them.




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