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Front projection...I just can't deal with it anymore.


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33 replies to this topic

#1 of 34 OFFLINE   Inspector Hammer!

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Posted December 08 2007 - 04:30 PM

Back in early October my SP4805 blew up, the color wheel flew apart inside and I was upset to say the least and was resolved to get myself a new projector ASAP.

Well, certain events have caused me pause and prompted me to rethink things.

I spent Thanksgiving with some friends and we went to Buffalo NY and stayed with her brother at his house and he had just got a brand new 56" RP HDTV and I was amazed at how spectacular the image was on it. So I began to talk to my best friend about my desire to have my HT back up and running and how I was now seriously thinking about throwing in the towel on front projection.

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the huge image however it's everything else that i've grown just tired of, buying new lamps for $350.00 a pop, color wheel whines and the fear that the lamp will blow prematurely or that my color wheel can come apart, plus the psychological aspect knowing that my entire HT depends on a tiny shaft of light that burns at an incredible temperature working properly...I simply can't do it anymore, guys.

After seeing his TV at work I was suddenly hit with an overwhelming urge to buy a new large screen HDTV that I can install and keep running for many years without the need for lamps or the worry of color wheel issues. So I decided that i'm abandoning FP after the first of the year and am going to put my efforts into buying at least a 60" RP (have my reasons for settling on RP, natural looking images being at the front of the list, never cared for plasmas).

So, guys, I leave you to your large screens and projectors, i'll be taking a hit in size, from 103" to 60" but I feel good about this, no more headaches to deal with and a sparkling image that rivals my SP4805. I look at it as fate since I have plans to get into Blu Ray in the new year and with a new TV i'll have full 1080p which my 4805 didn't have.
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#2 of 34 OFFLINE   Cameron Yee

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Posted December 08 2007 - 07:04 PM

With rear projection you're also looking at potential lamp replacements, aren't you?
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#3 of 34 OFFLINE   Inspector Hammer!

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Posted December 09 2007 - 12:28 AM

Yes however i've had in my lifetime 2 RP TV's and i've never had a single problem with either of them and i've known a few people who own/owned RP as well and they never had to replace anything so far.

I guess I just trust the technology more than I do FP.
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#4 of 34 OFFLINE   Allan Jayne

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Posted December 09 2007 - 12:33 AM

Some rear projections have color wheels, too.

Almost all RPTV's have a "rib pitch" analogous to the dot pitch on CRT's. This imposes some limit on the horizontal resolution. You can measure this yourself by getting up close to the screen with a piece of paper and a sharp pencil, counting about two inches worth of the fine upright lines the picture appears to be made up of and estimating how many ribs there are across the screen.

Would you go with an LCD front projector? No color wheel on those models.

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#5 of 34 OFFLINE   Joseph Bolus

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Posted December 09 2007 - 01:15 AM

If you really want to get into a low maintenance, modern, RPTV then you should consider one of the new Samsung LED-driven DLP RPTVs. These things have no lamp and no color wheel (the three high-powered red-green-blue LED's replace both). Plus you still get all the benefit of single-chip DLP technology. (High-contrast,zero convergence issues, and zero burn-in.) Just in case you're wondering, the three LEDs fire sequentially; thus no convergence issues. The emulated color wheel speed is 16x. And the rated life of the "LED Light Engine" is 20,000 hours.

If I ever get out of front projection, this is where I'm headed.

Here's a review of one of these beauties:

http://www.hometheat....g-led-dlp.aspx
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#6 of 34 OFFLINE   drobbins

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Posted December 09 2007 - 01:35 AM

My impression of the 4805 was that they were the first really affordable projector with a good picture. I just joined HTF and everyone was raving about them so much, I bought one sight unseen. My first one I had about 1,000 hours on it before it was ruined in a house flood. It made some noise but not enough to stop me from getting another to replace it. The second one was louder. I could hear the wheel wine over the quieter parts of a movie.

I moved and built another theater with an Optoma HD70 projector. It is the next step in resolution and is much, much quieter. Even when it is turned on and the receiver is off, I have to try and listen for it. I only have 300+hours on it so I can't comment on bulb life. Probably when the bulb blows, I will upgrade to a 1080 projector rather than replace it.

After having a 110" screen for so long, I don't think I can ever go to a 60" with out it irking me the whole time. Maybe try a different brand of projector or LCD as mentioned.

#7 of 34 OFFLINE   Inspector Hammer!

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Posted December 09 2007 - 03:08 AM

I would be willing to give LCD a shot, I just know that I can't bring myself to get back into FP again, after all the problems i've encountered after only being into FP for 3 years i've had enough.

I had more issues with FP in that short time than I did in the 8 years with my last RP to which was a grand total of zero problems.
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#8 of 34 OFFLINE   Steve Berger

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Posted December 09 2007 - 04:24 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inspector Hammer!
I had more issues with FP in that short time than I did in the 8 years with my last RP to which was a grand total of zero problems.
Your old RPTV was old, stable technology that was very reliable and repairable. New RPTVs are not. They have many more ways to fail and repair is a process of plugging in large, expensive, subassemblies that become unavailable in 18 - 25 months. They use BGA and PLCC chips, nolead solder, fishcaps, inaccessible construction, and are likely subjects for "tin whiskers" and board flex (pops those BGA chips off the board) which will limit their life dramatically, not to mention dust blobs and melted LCD panels and filters, color wheels, light tunnels, lamps and HV lamp drivers just like FP. Your extended warranty will keep it going for 5 years but past that is looking unlikely.

I went with FP because I knew I could buy a new, better one if necessary for the same cost as most repairs on a new RPTV or Flat Panel set. (besides the 144" picture)

#9 of 34 OFFLINE   Inspector Hammer!

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Posted December 09 2007 - 04:54 AM

Damn, your making it sound like tv's now are garbage, that it isn't possible to keep a new tv now past five years. Posted Image Tell me something to make me feel better not worse lol.
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#10 of 34 OFFLINE   Steve Berger

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Posted December 09 2007 - 05:58 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inspector Hammer!
Damn, your making it sound like tv's now are garbage, that it isn't possible to keep a new tv now past five years. Posted Image Tell me something to make me feel better not worse lol.
A redeeming factor is that brand is no longer very important. Cost + warranty + lamp (if relevant) divided by 5 should yield a cost-per-year to own your particular choice. Quality of performance on Analog, SD, and SD-Digital will be the biggest difference between the best and worst products. You will be viewing 4:3 content and low-rez digital for a long time, IMHO, and that requires good video and scan processing (esp. de-interlacing and scaling). Full HD signals will be very similar in appearance to the average person regardless of the brand.

I've been a TV tech for 35+ years and have had my own shop since 1979. I can see the end in sight. My only hope is that sticker shock will cause people to fix those 5 year old (still repairable) TVs. I have a 35" and 50" in the shop right now that were found on the side of the road that needed a $40 and $170 repair respectfully.

#11 of 34 OFFLINE   mylan

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Posted December 09 2007 - 06:05 AM

Hmm, I've heard of the "tin whiskers" problem and that could be a major problem for everything electronic not just home theater, scary stuff indeed.
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#12 of 34 OFFLINE   Inspector Hammer!

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Posted December 09 2007 - 06:11 AM

I'm sure that developers are aware of these problems and are working to better them, right? It's the same with everything, when a new technology is introduced it takes a while to work the bugs out.

I probably won't be ready to buy a new set until around April of next year so any tv I get will be an 08' model.
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#13 of 34 OFFLINE   JeremyErwin

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Posted December 09 2007 - 06:35 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inspector Hammer!
I'm sure that developers are aware of these problems and are working to better them, right? It's the same with everything, when a new technology is introduced it takes a while to work the bugs out.

They've known about tin whiskers from about the 1940s Lead mitigated it somewhat, but that's a major health hazard, so it's back to square one.

#14 of 34 OFFLINE   Parker Clack

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Posted December 09 2007 - 06:56 AM

John:

Another RPTV to look into is the Panasonic PT-61LCZ70 61" 1080p LIFI. It utilizes a new type of bulb Panasonic calls LiFi that doesn't have a filament, is warranted for 5 years, has a much faster start up time and since it is LCD no color wheel.

I saw this set and CEDIA and it looked great. And at around $1,500 a great buy on a 61 inch 1080p RPTV.

Parker

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#15 of 34 OFFLINE   Inspector Hammer!

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Posted December 09 2007 - 07:44 AM

That looks like a great set, Parker and $1,500 was about my budget as well. Have to keep that one in mind. Posted Image
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#16 of 34 OFFLINE   Doug_H

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Posted December 10 2007 - 01:02 AM

I have the 4805 and while it is a very good PJ for the price it is not even HD. It is capable of downconverting HD signals to it's native resolution only. It does a very nice job of it though.

If you get a 720P or 1080i/p PJ you will get a picture on par or better than an RP.
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#17 of 34 OFFLINE   Steve Berger

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Posted December 10 2007 - 01:49 AM

CNet had a good article on resolutions.
http://reviews.cnet.....ml?tag=nl.e501
Points 5 and 9 are particularly important.

#18 of 34 OFFLINE   Parker Clack

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Posted December 10 2007 - 09:56 AM

John:

We did a little podcast of the LiFi set while we were at CEDIA that you may want to take a look at.

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are confidential and can only be released to other insurance companies,

pharmaceutical​ reps, suppliers of medical equipment and for some

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#19 of 34 OFFLINE   Inspector Hammer!

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Posted December 11 2007 - 06:31 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug_H
I have the 4805 and while it is a very good PJ for the price it is not even HD. It is capable of downconverting HD signals to it's native resolution only.

I know, which is another motivation for me getting a true HD display.

Parker, I can't access your link, when I click on it it closes my internet explorer. Posted Image
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#20 of 34 OFFLINE   SherardP

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Posted December 11 2007 - 06:41 PM

I would go Front Projection any day over a small 56 inch HD display. The new projectors are just that good. For the price you spent on that TV you could have gone with the epson or the new panny 2000U. Just my opinion, the new projectors are of outstanding quality. And as mentioned before your TV will need a replacement lamp at some point.


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