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Audyssey MultEQ: Questions and Answers - Onkyo, Denon, et. al.


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#21 of 266 OFFLINE   audyssey

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Posted November 01 2007 - 11:38 AM

Hi Joe,

The SVS suggestions are good. You are right to apply them after you run Audyssey as all internal settings of the receiver are ignored during calibration.

I am fairly certain that the hum in your system is always there, but you hear it more when Audyssey applies EQ to the sub (which probably includes a boost at 60 Hz where the electrical hum would be).

You could verify if the hum is always there by turning Audyssey off and turning up the master volume on the 705 to see if you can hear the hum. If so, then it means it's always there and you have to start looking for other culprits.

Light dimmers, computers, and cable boxes can all cause this. Try disconnecting any of these from their power outlets and see if it goes away. Turn off light dimmers and check. Also, disconnect the cable TV cable from the equipment as that often brings hum.

Let us know what you find.

Best,
Chris
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#22 of 266 OFFLINE   Joe Pick

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Posted November 02 2007 - 07:45 AM

Chris (and all),

After reading several threads, and going through 2 Onkyo 705s, I decided to get the 805, and there is NO HUM whatsoever! There's definitely and issue with the 705. I ran the Audyssey EQ on the new 805 and then changed my speaker settings to 80Hz, with the LPF of LFE set at 100Hz. What a difference! It sounds like my PSB speakers were upgraded!

If I change the settings like I explained, will I lose any of the Audyssey EQ sound quality benefits, when I changed my speakers from "Full Band" to 80Hz? Thanks for your help.

#23 of 266 OFFLINE   audyssey

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Posted November 02 2007 - 04:14 PM

Joe,

Switching to "small" and 80 Hz will not affect the Audyssey MultEQ filters.

Regards,
Chris
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#24 of 266 OFFLINE   Joe Pick

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Posted November 03 2007 - 02:39 PM

Thanks, Chris. I'm really liking what I'm hearing, and 'tweaking' is fun sometimes. One more thing: when I am doing my Audyssey setup, is there a 'correct order' for positioning the mic, outside of the first and primary position? If I'm doing 6 measurements, would the order that I place them in make an audible difference? Here's the order I did mine in:
____

4 5 6
3 1 2

1 is the main seat (mine) and 4,5,6 are in front, slightly lower than 3,1,2. Thanks!

#25 of 266 OFFLINE   RAF

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Posted November 03 2007 - 05:17 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Pick
Thanks, Chris. I'm really liking what I'm hearing, and 'tweaking' is fun sometimes. One more thing: when I am doing my Audyssey setup, is there a 'correct order' for positioning the mic, outside of the first and primary position? If I'm doing 6 measurements, would the order that I place them in make an audible difference? Here's the order I did mine in:
____

4 5 6
3 1 2

1 is the main seat (mine) and 4,5,6 are in front, slightly lower than 3,1,2. Thanks!

It is my understanding that once the primary position has been established then each successive measurement is based on the parameters (distance, output, frequencies, etc.) that were established by the primary measurement (#1). As you move the microphone around (assuming you keep don't mess with any dials) the computer in the receiver can tell exactly where each new location is from the baseline data and factor the measurements into the final calibration accordingly. As with anything involving calibration, more data is better, so I always recommend the maximum number of data points. With the Denon 3806 it was 6 points and with the 3808 it was 8 points. It's probably not a bad idea to try to choose a variety of points either where people might sit or, if you are the main user of your system, around the primary position. Maybe Chris can shed some light on this.

Incidently, the "Pro" version of Audyssey can collect data for up to 32 points, I believe (doing my first calibration next week) so the tuning of the room can be much more precise. It also incorporates the dynamic equalization on the Denon units as well. (See the audyssey website for more details.)
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#26 of 266 OFFLINE   audyssey

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Posted November 05 2007 - 10:09 AM

Robert is correct. The order of the measurements does not matter after the first one. The first position is used to calculate distances (delays), but after that you can use any order.

Regards,
Chris
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#27 of 266 OFFLINE   Royce H

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Posted November 05 2007 - 07:42 PM

Hi, Chris. I've been reading about Audyssey and wanting to try it out since it was introduced in a high-end Denon, and just recently bought an Onkyo 705 with it. I'm very happy with the sound clarity (especially dialogue) that the Audyssey setup provides in my room. Thanks for developing such an impressive performance booster!
Royce

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#28 of 266 OFFLINE   Kevin C Brown

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Posted November 06 2007 - 12:33 PM

I have a question about dynamic equaliztion. I do like this idea ... in theory. My problem or question is this: Does the amount of eq depend on the volume knob setting, or the actual level of the recording?

I.e., let's say I play a very well mastered CD from the early days of CD, for me the volume setting would be let's say -32 dB. So now I play a recently produced maximized, limited, compressed CD, and the volume control setting for the same apparent volume in my room is -40 dB. What happens with dynamic eq? And then how about a DVD? My std DVD listening is at -25 dB. But the apparent volume for all of those in my room is about the same, hence the amount of dynamic eq should be the same. But I bet it isn't. Posted Image But I'd be curious if it is!
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#29 of 266 OFFLINE   john a hunter

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Posted November 07 2007 - 04:47 PM

Does the Audyssey EQ only work with a digital signal or could it be used with playback via the 5 channel by pass for SA-CD , as in the Denon 3808?

#30 of 266 OFFLINE   Chris Maynard

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Posted November 07 2007 - 05:11 PM

I just ran through it about an hour ago with my new 4308 Denon.

Very impressive!
I did nothing...I did absolutely nothing and it was everything I thought it could be..

#31 of 266 OFFLINE   audyssey

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Posted November 09 2007 - 02:12 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin C Brown
I have a question about dynamic equaliztion. I do like this idea ... in theory. My problem or question is this: Does the amount of eq depend on the volume knob setting, or the actual level of the recording?

Hi Kevin,

The answer is: Dynamic EQ looks at both. In developing Dynamic EQ, we looked at the exact problem you are referring to. To have proper loudness correction, there are several things to pay attention to:

1) the reference level at which the recording was made
2) the playback level measured in the room where the recording is being reproduced
3) the proper psychoacoustic loudness curves
4) the loudness level of the content measured moment-by-moment
5) for surround content, the "surround impression" delivered by the surround speakers

For movie content all the reference level at which the recording was made is known in advance. It is a standard that all mixes adhere to. However, for music content there are no strict standards imposed by the industry. We surveyed several key mastering studios and found that the best ones are starting to converge to the same reference as film, but there is still some variation. One of the key elements in Dynamic EQ is to monitor the perceived loudness of the content as it is playing. So, for softer passages we apply more loudness correction and for louder passages we apply less. This is required even if the volume control is not changing in order to better match what human hearing expects.

Regards,
Chris
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#32 of 266 OFFLINE   Adam_R

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Posted November 09 2007 - 10:31 AM

Well I just got my 3808 and finished the Audyssey setup, and I must admit, it sounds very light on bass.

If I tweak the sub level, it kills my Audyssey settings right?

I think I can adjust the gain on the sub amp to suit my tastes.

Still messing with it.

Posted Image

And BTW - It found all my speakers as "small" as is should!
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#33 of 266 OFFLINE   Kevin C Brown

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Posted November 09 2007 - 12:29 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by audyssey
Hi Kevin,

The answer is: Dynamic EQ looks at both. ...
For movie content all the reference level at which the recording was made is known in advance. It is a standard that all mixes adhere to. However, for music content there are no strict standards imposed by the industry. ... One of the key elements in Dynamic EQ is to monitor the perceived loudness of the content as it is playing. So, for softer passages we apply more loudness correction and for louder passages we apply less. This is required even if the volume control is not changing in order to better match what human hearing expects.

If it's not worth waiting until the last minute to do, then it's not worth doing.

KevinVision 7.1 ...

#34 of 266 OFFLINE   Kevin C Brown

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Posted November 09 2007 - 12:33 PM

Chris- Sweet. Posted Image You are exactly right about movies. For Dolby Digital (and most DTS) DVD soundtracks, I can pretty much set the volume at -25 dB and I'm good to go. It's CDs where the big difference comes in. Cool !!

I have a Lexicon MC-12 and it has a similar feature, but I don't think it's content level dependent. (Although I'll have to check on that sometime.) I don't use it because it increases the bass response too much for my taste.

Oh, Chris- Is that dynamic eq function tweakble at all? For example, if I could tweak Lexicon's approach to do almost exactly 50% of what it's doing now, I'd be happy. Kind of like a low, med, high dynamic eq setting instead of just on or off.

??

Posted Image
If it's not worth waiting until the last minute to do, then it's not worth doing.

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#35 of 266 OFFLINE   audyssey

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Posted November 10 2007 - 04:11 PM

Hi Kevin,

You haven't even tried it and you want to tweak it already? Give it a chance!

But seriously, what we try very hard to do at Audyssey is to stay in the objective domain as much as possible. Just like MultEQ, Dynamic EQ is about rendering sound as close to reference conditions as possible. So for now, there is no ability to tweak it within Audyssey as that would put us in the business of subjective adjustments. You can, of course, still play with tone controls to tweak the bass if you end up not liking it.

Regards,
Chris
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#36 of 266 OFFLINE   Kevin C Brown

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Posted November 12 2007 - 12:21 PM

I'll have to check it out sometime. I do like the idea.
If it's not worth waiting until the last minute to do, then it's not worth doing.

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#37 of 266 OFFLINE   RAF

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Posted November 13 2007 - 11:23 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam_R
Well I just got my 3808 and finished the Audyssey setup, and I must admit, it sounds very light on bass.

If I tweak the sub level, it kills my Audyssey settings right?

Adam,

A quick thought (which may or may not apply in your particular situation).

Does your subwoofer have an "auto" or "standby" or "sleep" mode (which removes power to the SW if it doesn't receive a signal after a certain amount of time)? If so, you should disable this mode before performing the Audyssey calibration so that the SW is always putting out the test signal when required. If not, then there is a chance that you might get inaccurate SW measurements in the calibration process which might be the cause of your "thin" bass.

Like I said, this might not apply in your case, but it can't hurt to make sure.
RAF
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#38 of 266 OFFLINE   Adam_R

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Posted November 16 2007 - 02:25 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by RAF
Adam,

A quick thought (which may or may not apply in your particular situation).

Does your subwoofer have an "auto" or "standby" or "sleep" mode (which removes power to the SW if it doesn't receive a signal after a certain amount of time)? If so, you should disable this mode before performing the Audyssey calibration so that the SW is always putting out the test signal when required. If not, then there is a chance that you might get inaccurate SW measurements in the calibration process which might be the cause of your "thin" bass.

Like I said, this might not apply in your case, but it can't hurt to make sure.

Thanks for the tip, but yes, my sub is "on". It's a SVS 20-39 PCi and I have the crossover disable, the power on, and the phase at 0 degrees.

I just did the calibration with the gain on the sub amp at 50% and have manually tweaked it to my liking. I think other than that, the Audyssey setup has been really nice. I am still listening. It takes a LONG time to really hear it all.
Guess what...

#39 of 266 OFFLINE   Jeff O.

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Posted November 16 2007 - 05:30 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam_R
It takes a LONG time to really hear it all.

No kidding Adam. I am still trying to figure out all of the features of this receiver. I finally got to try Audessy last night, but wasn't too thrilled with the results. I have gotten a few tips and will try again tonight. Thanks again for the tip on the 3808. 6th Ave service was great.

#40 of 266 OFFLINE   Rob Grim

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Posted December 05 2007 - 03:18 AM

Well, I guess I should chime in on this thread. I recently picked up my 3808 on Black Friday which replaced my Outlaw 990. This is my second Denon receiver I've owned, my 3805 is on the upstairs rig and as with the 3805, been 80% pleased so far. Why 80% you ask, for the life of me I just can't seem to get the Audyssey Auto setup to work correctly. My front speaker are approximately 12.5' from my main setting position and after running the Auto setup they are showing the speakers as being 0.8' from the main seating position. When checking the speaker sizes the unit doesn't even show me as having front speakers, it set the rear speakers as large and the side speakers as small. Things just seem so out of wack but yet it sounds amazing other than the fact that the LFE just seems to low. I've ran the setup at least 3 different times using atleast 6 positions and everytime something is different. When I first purchased the unit the very first thing I did was downloaded the "LATEST" firmware. This was verified after trying to redownload and it clearly stated "LATEST". I never reset the microprocessor so I'm not even sure if this will help. Can anyone verify that if you reset the microprocessor if this would help with the Audyssey? Thanks.


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