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Star Trek TNG possible HD versions


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21 replies to this topic

#1 of 22 Nelson Au

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Posted July 27 2007 - 03:45 AM

Thought some of you might be interested in this!

On the heels of Star Trek TOS being remastered for HD, testing for Star Trek The Next Generation for HD was done. Some of you may have heard the news from Comic Con at the Trekmovie.com site where the owner chatted with CBS about what's coming after TOS is done.

They apparantly did a test for one episode and looked at "upressing" the effects to see if they all needed to be redone via CGI. Nothing has been decided, it's still very early days. Nothing about this version on discs or broadcast.

#2 of 22 Sean Laughter

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Posted July 27 2007 - 05:57 AM

So they have the original film elements from all of the filming of the entire series? I was under the impression that everything post TNG (excluding, perhaps, Enterprise) was filmed on 35mm and then transferred to video for all the post.

I'm guessing it was still edited on film - to keep from having to transfer every shot and take to video - and then the final cut was sent to video for the special effects and everything like that.

An HD version would be incredible if they can do a transfer from the film and do whatever they need to get the special effect shots in there.

#3 of 22 Dave Mack

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Posted July 27 2007 - 06:39 AM

It was done post on video. All FX were rendered at 480i SD video.
Would take years to do.

#4 of 22 RickER

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Posted July 27 2007 - 07:07 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Mack
It was done post on video. All FX were rendered at 480i SD video.
Would take years to do.

LOL poor Dave. I lose count how many times you have had to say that. Posted Image

#5 of 22 Dave Mack

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Posted July 27 2007 - 07:08 AM

yep, it never gets through...


Posted Image

And if CBSDigital (Paramount) wants to charge $217.99 for these sets anyways...?!?

#6 of 22 Jason_V

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Posted July 27 2007 - 07:32 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Mack
It was done post on video. All FX were rendered at 480i SD video.
Would take years to do.

Maybe add that to your sig, Dave? Posted Image

#7 of 22 Mark_TB

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Posted July 27 2007 - 01:36 PM

My guess is that they (Paramount/CBS/whatever entity now owns the rights) are trying to see if these can be remastered on the cheap, without having to go through all of the processes Dave has detailed. If the end result is still unacceptable (which wouldn't surprise me), I think it unlikely we'd see TNG in Hi-Def anytime soon. Just my two cents.

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#8 of 22 Douglas Monce

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Posted July 27 2007 - 02:02 PM

From that the original poster said it sound like they are trying to up rez it to HD. If they do that with the first two seasons in particular its going to look really bad. The first two seasons were edited on an analog system and there is a lots of chroma noise in the picture. Not to mention lots of aliasing.

As Dave said, it would take years to re master this whole show in HD, re edit, and re composite all of the effects shots.

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#9 of 22 Dave Mack

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Posted July 27 2007 - 02:37 PM

Douglas is right.
Uprezzing would look no better than watching the SDdvds on an upscaling player like an oppo etc...

That's far from being real HD. If this trend begins then we're in trouble. There are many shows like this done in the 80's, 90's like Buffy, The X files etc... that truly deserve the proper treatment if they are going to do it. Do it right or not at all. Fake HD? Not for me.

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#10 of 22 ChristopherDAC

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Posted July 27 2007 - 03:44 PM

There is an interesting possibility.

I believe the first couple of seasons were done using the "Edit-Droid" system, based on recordable LaserDiscs. This system was also used for film editing, using the LD framecode to correspond to codes printed on the film. Thus, the cut could be assembled on video and then executed automatically on the film elements.

If Paramount had the framecode feature working, it might be possible to go back and assemble a film cut. Since they were editing for video, I doubt they actually took the necessary steps.

#11 of 22 Eric F

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Posted July 27 2007 - 03:49 PM

The real question:

Selling 3 box sets DVDs of TOS is one thing, but selling 7 box sets of DVDs of TNG on eBay are going to be something else entirely. Does the improvement even warrant the bother?

In any even I have a PS3 so I have to wait for a BD version anyways, and CBS/Paramount appears to prefer DVD/HD combos first primarily right now anyways.

#12 of 22 John Berggren

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Posted July 27 2007 - 04:13 PM

Honestly I'd rather have SD-DVD TNG with original effects than a new HD version with "new and improved" effects. Especially considering we'd be looking at an asking price of some 200$+/season.
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#13 of 22 Douglas Monce

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Posted July 28 2007 - 03:22 AM

I really don't think TNG warrants improving the effects by replacing the originals with CGI, just rescanning the elements in HD and then digitally compositing them. Kind of like what they did with the Snowspeeder vs. Walkers sequence in The Empire Strikes Back.

The model work itself is quite good I think. Its just the fact that it was composited on video that makes it a bit dicey.

But again this would be a huge project and I have my doubts about CBS/Paramount sinking that much money into it.

Doug
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#14 of 22 Nelson Au

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Posted July 28 2007 - 04:18 AM

Yes, let's not got too far ahead of the cart! A CBS spokesperson simply said they were testing with one episode the possibility of bringing TNG to HD. One test was to see if the effects, that were done on video, could stand up to being "uprezed". If not, one option was CGI. But they have made no decisions, no plans.

#15 of 22 Douglas Monce

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Posted July 28 2007 - 05:03 AM

Well its not just a matter of the effects. The whole show was completed on video and would have to be re scanned and re edited.

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#16 of 22 Dave Mack

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Posted July 28 2007 - 06:02 AM

unless they wind up just uprezzing and futzing with that.

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#17 of 22 bobbd

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Posted July 28 2007 - 07:22 AM

Dave (or anyone else), do you know what percentage of the elements for TNG's model shots were shot on 35mm? Was it all shot on film and then composited on video, or did they try to shoot some of the FX passes on video?

If all the elemnts were indeed shot on film, a true HD version of TNG wouldn't need much new CGI (except for the rotoscoped stuff, like shield bubbles and phaser beams). Of course I don't think TNG is as sacred as TOS, so I certainly wouldn't mind some balls-to-wall new CG sequences Posted Image

#18 of 22 Douglas Monce

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Posted July 28 2007 - 07:23 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Mack
unless they wind up just uprezzing and futzing with that.

Posted Image

Hmmmmmmmmm Unless they have some magic new software, all I can say is, it will be ugly.

Doug
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#19 of 22 Douglas Monce

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Posted July 28 2007 - 07:27 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbd
Dave (or anyone else), do you know what percentage of the elements for TNG's model shots were shot on 35mm? Was it all shot on film and then composited on video, or did they try to shoot some of the FX passes on video?

If all the elemnts were indeed shot on film, a true HD version of TNG wouldn't need much new CGI (except for the rotoscoped stuff, like shield bubbles and phaser beams). Of course I don't think TNG is as sacred as TOS, so I certainly wouldn't mind some balls-to-wall new CG sequences Posted Image

All of the model shots for TNG were done on 35mm film. Once the model elements were shot they were transfered to video and chroma keyed together. The only "video" effects would be the animation of things like phasers and tractor beams etc. The Christal Entity in the early episodes (not sure which season) was a very early CGI image.

Doug
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#20 of 22 Dave Mack

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Posted July 28 2007 - 07:44 AM

yep, it will look like a mess if they try to cut corners. Even the shows on DVD now look terrible when they cut to an FX shot.


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