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720p/1080i compnent dvd?


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15 replies to this topic

#1 of 16 zpdrummer

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Posted July 26 2007 - 08:27 AM

Hello, I was reading descriptions for tv's and noticed some(including mine) say that they can accept a 720p/1080i through the component inputs. So I started looking at dvd players, can anyone name a dvd player that is capable of putting out such high-quality video through component cables?
Thanks in advance for any information.

#2 of 16 JeremyErwin

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Posted July 26 2007 - 09:18 AM

I believe you are confusing "high resolution" with "high quality". They're not the same. Most of the players that will upconvert copy protected DVDs (the vast majority of commercial releases) over component are either dodgy, or require the use of third party firmware.

Maybe it's time to get an HD-DVD or Bluray player?

#3 of 16 zpdrummer

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Posted July 26 2007 - 10:32 AM

Thankyou for the advicer but my real problem is my tv is 720p/1080i but lo an behold, had no hdmi or dvi inputs! Yes quite ridiculous indeed. But I still have it becuase it is only for a smaller room and was inexpensive(now I know why). That is why I was so interested in the prospect of a dvd with 720p/1080i output through component cables.
I'm sure eventually I will purchase a better tv, but for now, being a student, I'm stuck with this one for a while.

And your right i did confuse resolutuion with quality, opps

#4 of 16 JeremyErwin

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Posted July 26 2007 - 11:02 AM

Apparently, there's a firmware update floating around which will allow the Oppo 970 to upconvert copy protected DVDs to 720p/1080i. A reasonably decent player, I hear.

Stlll, upconversion does have its limitations. An HD-DVD player or Bluray will pass 1080i out the component jacks-- no upconversion voodoo necessary. I don't think any of them will upconvert standard DVDs over component, though. Essentially, you can get a player that will play DVDs with minor improvements in image detail, or you can get a player that's acceptable for DVDs, and truly stellar on HD material. Your choice.

#5 of 16 Bob McElfresh

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Posted July 27 2007 - 06:23 PM

Hi Andrew.

First - Ordinary DVD's are encoded with 480 lines of video.

Some DVD players try to expand that and 'fill in" the empty space - but this only works so far. And to insure copy protection, Hollywood has forced these companies to only provide the up-conversion through a DVI or HDMI jack.

So you are stuck with using a HD cable box, or Sat box to give 720 or 1080 signals through the component inputs.

#6 of 16 joseph westcott

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Posted July 28 2007 - 01:33 AM

The real focus should be in acquiring a quality DVD player with great core performance (deinterlacing, cadence, mpeg decoding), regardless of its upscaling abilities. Your display is probably going to do the final scaling anyway since most displays are not true 1080i or 720p native resolutions. The Panasonic S97 does a great job over component output and is sold for a fair price.

#7 of 16 Allan Jayne

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Posted July 28 2007 - 03:45 AM

For regular DVD there is no compelling need to send 720p or 1080i to the TV. The primary task is converting 480i to 480p which the player may or may not do and in turn convert to 720p or 1080i.

If the TV converts 480i to 480p well (has great core performance mentioned above) (and then must convert the 480p to fit the screen) you can use any old DVD player outputting its usual 480i.

If the player converts 480i to 480p well, you can stop there, choose that, and send the 480p on to the TV which will convert that as needed to fit the screen.

If your TV has only component video 720p/1080i inputs, you are better off holding off on buying Blu-Ray or HDDVD until the whole system and standard of copy protection is reworked to allow you to connect up the player that way and still get high definition.

Video hints: http://members.aol.c...jr/viddoubl.htm
.

#8 of 16 ChrisWiggles

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Posted July 28 2007 - 07:05 AM

There are a few DVD players that do upscale over component, you can find info here:

http://www.avsforum....ad.php?t=423609

See especially the momitsu v880.

more threads:
http://www.avsforum....ad.php?t=755704

#9 of 16 zpdrummer

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Posted July 28 2007 - 03:32 PM

wow, great information, thanks alot guysPosted Image

#10 of 16 zpdrummer

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Posted July 28 2007 - 03:58 PM

ok just a spin-off question now, but if regular dvds are encoded with 480lines of resolution what is the point of the upscaling provided from hdmi/dvi cables? i mean the picture isn't really going to get any better than the 480 right becuase the player only 'guestimating' at how to provide more lines.

#11 of 16 joseph westcott

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Posted July 29 2007 - 01:01 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by zpdrummer
ok just a spin-off question now, but if regular dvds are encoded with 480lines of resolution what is the point of the upscaling provided from hdmi/dvi cables? i mean the picture isn't really going to get any better than the 480 right becuase the player only 'guestimating' at how to provide more lines.

Some scalers are better than others, but in general, upscaling is just a bunch of marketing hype. Most flat panel displays are not native 720p or 1080i so upscaling can actually be worse for quality video. One should focus on the core capabilities of a DVD player and forget all about the marketingsales focus on big numbers.

Now don't get me wrong, scalers can be important, but 99 times out of 100, it is your display's scaler that is going to be important and the final scaler in the video chain.

#12 of 16 ChrisWiggles

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Posted July 30 2007 - 05:25 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by zpdrummer
ok just a spin-off question now, but if regular dvds are encoded with 480lines of resolution what is the point of the upscaling provided from hdmi/dvi cables? i mean the picture isn't really going to get any better than the 480 right becuase the player only 'guestimating' at how to provide more lines.

No new information is being added, you are correct, however the best way to reconstruct any image sample lattice is using more advanced reconstruction filters which require a much higher display resolution. Doing a 1 for 1 rectangular 'pixel' per image sample is the crudest way to reconstruct the image. Using a much higher display resolution (theoretically infinite) allows for a much more advanced reconstruction of the image, and reduces high frequency noise imposed by the box filter reconstruction.

See:
http://archive.avsfo....922#post691922

#13 of 16 Geoff L

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Posted August 05 2007 - 08:43 PM

Hey sharpies:

How about us guys that have not yet purchased an HDTV, be it RPT/LCD/Plasma, etc.

I ask those smarter than I, ~{would there be any picture benifit}~ to purchasing a decent, or for that matter, the best upcnoverting player that dose it (over component), for my Sony 46" 4.3 RPTV.???

FYI:
I almost bought a new HD-set this last month, a (Panisonic TH-50PX77U Plasma) but decided I am going to wait another 6-10 months before buying. At least that is the plan as of now. Seems sets keep getting better along with droping in price almost by the month. Yes, I'm pushing it a bit their, but they do seem to be getting better & cheaper faster than just a short time ago.

Throwing a couple hundred at a upconverting player that could/would better my picture "even if only slghtly", I have no problem with. This, even if it's a throw away player once I go wide HDMI Plasma/LCD or whatever later.

Or do I just stick with 480p out of my current two players and live with that. They all will be hand me downs to someone else in another year and a half anyway.

So enlighten me please as I don't know the answer to this. Information on my situation could is misleading. As I mentioned above, even if the best upconvert player over component is only slightly better than running my current standard 480i/p players (Tosihba & JVC), I certainly would consider it.

Thanks in advance
Geoff ¥
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#14 of 16 ChrisWiggles

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Posted August 06 2007 - 05:09 AM

Quote:
I ask those smarter than I, ~{would there be any picture benifit}~ to purchasing a decent, or for that matter, the best upcnoverting player that dose it (over component), for my Sony 46" 4.3 RPTV.???

I am unclear as to what you have, you seem to insinuate in saying that you "have not yet purchased an HDTV" so from that I am under the assumption that your sony RPTV is only standard definition. In this case, if your display does not accept or display beyond standard definition signals, then no there would be no benefit of upscaling since you couldn't upscale to your TV.

#15 of 16 Geoff L

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Posted August 06 2007 - 05:28 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisWiggles
I am unclear as to what you have, you seem to insinuate in saying that you "have not yet purchased an HDTV" so from that I am under the assumption that your sony RPTV is only standard definition. In this case, if your display does not accept or display beyond standard definition signals, then no there would be no benefit of upscaling since you couldn't upscale to your TV.

Yes my Sony 46" RPTV is a (non HD set).

Thought "possibly" you might be able to get a slightly better picture even on a SD set..
It appears not...!

Thanks
Geoff
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#16 of 16 ChrisWiggles

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Posted August 06 2007 - 07:00 AM

Nope. Certainly some DVD players are better than others, whether or not they upscale, so that may provide benefits, but you would not be able to engage any upscaling (or even progressive) and hence wouldn't net any gains from that obviously.


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