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50-60 Inch HDTV Help/Advice/Comments


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21 replies to this topic

#1 of 22 OFFLINE   Dukefrukem

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Posted July 23 2007 - 07:45 AM

Hey guys,

Here is my second help thread, the first being my audio receiver thread.

What I am looking for, and I know there must be tons of people with opinions on this, is the best damn 50-60 inch HDTV money can buy. I know that sounds really unrealistic and I’m not really out to spend $10K on a TV, but I know there are tons of people on these forums with great value TVs with little or no repercussions.

I’ve owned my 1080p 37 inch HD LCD for almost a year and have loved it, but I am now going to be solely using it as my PC monitor and need a replacement for PS3, HD-DVD and TV.

I have been staying far away from DLP over the past couple of months because I think it’s ridiculous how short lived some of them have been. Their reputation is it will work for 500 hours, burn out, and will need to be replaced for additional $600 for all eternity. That to me is mind boggling why people would want to continue to pay for their TV, after they pay for it.

I could be wrong now. Technology has improved and maybe DLP has come along way. Has it? Do I still need to worry about only 1000 viewing hours in comparison to my LCD’s 60,000 user hours? I heard they have conquered the burn in phenomenon. Is this true as well?

So I ask the members here for advice and opinions on the newer DLP Tvs, Rear Projection, Projection, and everything in between.

The time has come for an upgrade and I want it to be a great one.

Things that are important to me:

Reliability
Clarity
HDMI input

Thanks in advance.

-steve


edit: I've been looking at this Sony KDS50A2000 50 Inch Grand Wega 1080P Sxrd Rear Projection HDTV

reviews seem to be very good. ideas? thoughts? comments?

#2 of 22 OFFLINE   Dukefrukem

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Posted July 24 2007 - 10:13 AM

no helpy again? Posted Image

#3 of 22 OFFLINE   PattyFraser

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Posted July 25 2007 - 04:38 AM

I can't be of any knowledgeable help, but I would like to piggyback on your question and ask about the Mitsubishi displays. I, too, am looking at TVs in the 50-60 range, reasonably priced, and all I see mentioned here are sonys, never any mention of the Mits, which I see has a 60 inch LCD as its largest, unlike Sony's 52 inch. (Yes, I know they have a 70 inch one, but who can afford $32,00 for a TV?) Are the Mits that bad? I do see them advertised at Sears! ;o)

#4 of 22 OFFLINE   Dukefrukem

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Posted July 25 2007 - 07:23 AM

I've owned a Mitsubishi SDTV for 10 years, suburb quality and reliability. Im not familiar with the HD models however.

Still looking for advice on HD TVs.

#5 of 22 OFFLINE   Dukefrukem

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Posted July 30 2007 - 05:09 AM

I still need help guys. Posted Image

#6 of 22 OFFLINE   Barry_B_B

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Posted July 30 2007 - 05:27 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dukefrukem
Hey guys,

Here is my second help thread, the first being my audio receiver thread.

What I am looking for, and I know there must be tons of people with opinions on this, is the best damn 50-60 inch HDTV money can buy.

I have been staying far away from DLP over the past couple of months because I think it’s ridiculous how short lived some of them have been. Their reputation is it will work for 500 hours, burn out, and will need to be replaced for additional $600 for all eternity. That to me is mind boggling why people would want to continue to pay for their TV, after they pay for it.

I could be wrong now. Technology has improved and maybe DLP has come along way. Has it? Do I still need to worry about only 1000 viewing hours in comparison to my LCD’s 60,000 user hours? I heard they have conquered the burn in phenomenon. Is this true as well?

So I ask the members here for advice and opinions on the newer DLP Tvs, Rear Projection, Projection, and everything in between.

The time has come for an upgrade and I want it to be a great one.

Things that are important to me:

Reliability
Clarity
HDMI input

Thanks in advance.

-steve

I'll throw in my two cents with a DLP model, the Samsung 50" DLP HL-S5086W. I've had it almost 2 1/2 years, viewed almost daily (vacations) at least 5 hours per day. Never had a problem with it and its still just as bright and clear as the day I first plugged it in. Use a high-quality signal and its picture is stunning. Feed it crap and that's what you'll see. I preferred the thought of changing bulbs to the screen door effect from LCD I saw.

Never let it be said that HTF members are unresponsive! Posted Image

#7 of 22 OFFLINE   Patrick Sun

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Posted July 30 2007 - 07:52 AM

If viewing angle is an issue, or you are used to a LCD-like picture, I can't see you being happy with any of the rear projection models (LCos or DLP). Replacement bulbs are typically $250 or less, not $600.
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#8 of 22 OFFLINE   Steve Berger

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Posted July 30 2007 - 03:21 PM

Speaking as a TV repairman (35 years), the best brands are going to be Sony, Panasonic, Hitachi, Mitsubishi. The biggest difference between these brands and the others (like the Koreans) will be picture quality on less than full HD signals (most of what is available) due to superior video processing.

All of the lifespan ratings published assume that it doesn't break. They are not MTBF but time till half brightness (typically). Most of the "old time" component level servicers figure that 5 to 7 years is the max that these sets will see. Surface-mount capacitors (fish-caps) start leaking in 3 - 5 years under high temperature conditions (inside of TVs). BGA and PLCC integrated circuits (digital) will pop off circuit boards as they flex with heat and age (a whole new category of intermittent failures). Chips with leads adjust to the slight bending all circuit boards experience with time, BGA won't. Most repairs require new circuit boards but nobody builds new boards for old sets and new boards run out at 18 to 24 months and the rebuilders have at best a 50% success rate (get the extended warranty) and virtually never fix intermittent problems. If any caps are leaking, they reject the board also.

My personal preference of the new tech (none of which is repairable - get the extended warranty) is DLP. The form has been around several years longer than LCOS types and it has the fewest failure modes. When a technology is unrepairable, the one with the fewest ways to fail is probably the longest lived (most durable). LCD microdisplay could have been the most repairable but they misdesigned the chassis (no physical access) and refused to supply individual polarizers, panels, and color filters.

Lamps are a 2 to 3 year item ($300 + or -). A 500 hour failure needs a new balast along with the lamp (despite the screams and denials of the manufacturers when it is done under warranty - insist on it). My latest theory is that restriking a lit lamp can blow it out. A bad balast can misdetect an already lit lamp, think it's off, and strike it again. This detection logic seems to be part of the balast design and not in the TV's microprocessor control. This is seen especially with aftermarket lamps.

#9 of 22 OFFLINE   Dukefrukem

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Posted August 28 2007 - 05:23 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Sun
If viewing angle is an issue, or you are used to a LCD-like picture, I can't see you being happy with any of the rear projection models (LCos or DLP). Replacement bulbs are typically $250 or less, not $600.

I thought I remembered hearing about a new type of technology where I dont have worry about burn in or replacing bulbs? DLP is still broken it seems?

You're right tho, I've been using a 37 inch 1080p monitor since last October and I love it. I was looking up upgrade to 47 inch LCD or 50-60 inch something else.

#10 of 22 OFFLINE   Dukefrukem

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Posted August 28 2007 - 05:25 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Berger
Speaking as a TV repairman (35 years), the best brands are going to be Sony, Panasonic, Hitachi, Mitsubishi. The biggest difference between these brands and the others (like the Koreans) will be picture quality on less than full HD signals (most of what is available) due to superior video processing.

All of the lifespan ratings published assume that it doesn't break. They are not MTBF but time till half brightness (typically). Most of the "old time" component level servicers figure that 5 to 7 years is the max that these sets will see. Surface-mount capacitors (fish-caps) start leaking in 3 - 5 years under high temperature conditions (inside of TVs). BGA and PLCC integrated circuits (digital) will pop off circuit boards as they flex with heat and age (a whole new category of intermittent failures). Chips with leads adjust to the slight bending all circuit boards experience with time, BGA won't. Most repairs require new circuit boards but nobody builds new boards for old sets and new boards run out at 18 to 24 months and the rebuilders have at best a 50% success rate (get the extended warranty) and virtually never fix intermittent problems. If any caps are leaking, they reject the board also.

My personal preference of the new tech (none of which is repairable - get the extended warranty) is DLP. The form has been around several years longer than LCOS types and it has the fewest failure modes. When a technology is unrepairable, the one with the fewest ways to fail is probably the longest lived (most durable). LCD microdisplay could have been the most repairable but they misdesigned the chassis (no physical access) and refused to supply individual polarizers, panels, and color filters.

Lamps are a 2 to 3 year item ($300 + or -). A 500 hour failure needs a new balast along with the lamp (despite the screams and denials of the manufacturers when it is done under warranty - insist on it). My latest theory is that restriking a lit lamp can blow it out. A bad balast can misdetect an already lit lamp, think it's off, and strike it again. This detection logic seems to be part of the balast design and not in the TV's microprocessor control. This is seen especially with aftermarket lamps.

So you're saying go DLP with an extended warranty? Im not sure i like taht idea if its guaranteed to fail.

#11 of 22 OFFLINE   Dukefrukem

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Posted August 28 2007 - 05:33 AM

I'm just really confused on which direction to go with 1080p so any more help is greatly appreciated.

And Im sorry for the quadruple post but i wrote this whole thing up and it wont let me post it until i have 10 posts...


To recap. I've been thinking with all this drama, i may just go to a cheap LCD. a 47 inch Westinghouse LCD @ 1080p will run for around $1349. Thats a great deal.

.dealigg.com/story-Westinghouse-47-1080p-Flat-Panel-LCD-HDTV-070821053436


I also saw a 47 inch Visio at Costco for $1500

.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11195976&whse=BC&Ne=4000000&eCat=BC|79|2341|3316&N=4001382&Mo=32&pos=1&No=12&Nr=P_CatalogName:BC&cat=3316&Ns=P_Price|1||P_SignDesc1&lang=en-US&Sp=C&ec=BC-EC10605-Cat2341&topnav=

and a 42 inch @ 1200

.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11225206&whse=BC&Ne=4000000&eCat=BC|79|2341|3316&N=4001382&Mo=32&pos=1&No=0&Nr=P_CatalogName:BC&cat=3316&Ns=P_Price|1||P_SignDesc1&lang=en-US&Sp=C&ec=BC-EC10605-Cat2341&topnav=

#12 of 22 OFFLINE   Andrew Pratt

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Posted August 28 2007 - 10:16 AM

The visio's are a popular budget set. Check out HP as well for budget plasma's (My Best Buy is clearing out the PL5060N for a great price) or look at Costco for some deals on last years models etc.

#13 of 22 OFFLINE   Dukefrukem

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Posted August 29 2007 - 01:43 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Pratt
The visio's are a popular budget set. Check out HP as well for budget plasma's (My Best Buy is clearing out the PL5060N for a great price) or look at Costco for some deals on last years models etc.

when you say budget set, do you just mean price? the specs are mostly the same as the big names. Aren't the visios owned by Sony?

#14 of 22 OFFLINE   Andrew Pratt

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Posted August 29 2007 - 03:50 AM

I've never seen a reference to Vizio being owned by Sony but they may use Sony panels in some models as there's really only a handful of companies that make their own panels. The HP I own uses an LG panel whereas last years model used a Panasonic panel. The real differences in these flat panel displays is the electonics inside them..esp the scalers for non native resolutions like SD material. HD will look great on all but the true bottom end displays but SD quality varies much more so.

#15 of 22 OFFLINE   Jeff Gatie

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Posted August 29 2007 - 05:44 AM

Just a few corrections from your original post:

1) DLP's didn't need to "conquer the burn in phenomenon" because they never had it. DLP and LCD are immune to burn in.

2) DLP lamps are rated for much longer than 500 hrs (try 3-6 thousand hours)and replacements are around $300, not $600. Mine is $240.

#16 of 22 OFFLINE   Dukefrukem

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Posted August 31 2007 - 01:16 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Gatie
Just a few corrections from your original post:

1) DLP's didn't need to "conquer the burn in phenomenon" because they never had it. DLP and LCD are immune to burn in.

2) DLP lamps are rated for much longer than 500 hrs (try 3-6 thousand hours)and replacements are around $300, not $600. Mine is $240.

sorry for the mistakes, and #2 still seems ridiculous to me.

ive read plenty of reviews on amazon where DLP checks out around 500 hours. Posted Image

#17 of 22 OFFLINE   Dukefrukem

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Posted August 31 2007 - 01:18 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Pratt
I've never seen a reference to Vizio being owned by Sony but they may use Sony panels in some models as there's really only a handful of companies that make their own panels. The HP I own uses an LG panel whereas last years model used a Panasonic panel. The real differences in these flat panel displays is the electonics inside them..esp the scalers for non native resolutions like SD material. HD will look great on all but the true bottom end displays but SD quality varies much more so.

maybe my SOny and Vizio comment was wrong Posted Image

and i totally agree with you on the SD quality on lower end HD TVs... My Westinghouse looks like crap through HD, but luckily i dont use it primarily for SDTV

thanks for your comments

#18 of 22 OFFLINE   Aaron Silverman

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Posted August 31 2007 - 03:44 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dukefrukem
sorry for the mistakes, and #2 still seems ridiculous to me.

ive read plenty of reviews on amazon where DLP checks out around 500 hours. Posted Image

If a DLP bulb goes out after 500 hours then it's either a bad bulb or a bad component that killed the bulb.
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#19 of 22 OFFLINE   Steve Berger

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Posted September 01 2007 - 03:07 PM

If you're curious about those Vizio/Westinghouse/etc sets, you might want to check out this article.
http://hdguru.com/?p=107

My DLP front projector has well over 2000 hours on the lamp.
A lamp based display needs to be treated differently than a TV. If you are going to be watching something else within a couple of hours, then leave it on. Restriking the lamp every hour or two is really hard on it. It's also very vibration sensitive when hot.

#20 of 22 OFFLINE   Aaron Silverman

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Posted September 01 2007 - 05:14 PM

That article is freaky!!!
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