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Burying The Format War Hatchet...


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78 replies to this topic

#1 of 79 OFFLINE   Tim Glover

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Posted July 20 2007 - 02:13 AM

Been doing alot of thinking lately. (scary thing I know Posted Image). Especially on the heals of the EMA thing and all that.

I realize we're in the middle of a format war. War is a funny term somewhat as it seems it's we the consumer that are really taking the hits. From each other. I also know that this is NOT Kansas and Dorothy doesn't live there anymore. Posted Image Some side is going to probably lose out. What does this mean to we the consumer?

I think most of us here love the Home Theater Forum. I know I do. There are other forums out there that do a good service as well. But there's not another place quite like the HTF. I spend more time here than any other place (except during A&M Football Season Posted Image )

Most of the time, one can easily spot the unique climate here. It's a polite, intellectual, and fun place to hang out and discuss this obsession hobby we call Home Theater. Posted Image

This whole format war is taking it's toll. I know it has for me some. I'm a rather easy going guy. People that know me well know me as one that can have a great time just chatting about anything. I love film. I love this hobby. I love the HD formats in general. But God I hate this war. I am finding myself being more defensive than I should be. I find myself feeling a "need" to react or counter act other posts or threads. It's exhausting and all that leads to a cycle that effects us all.

Doesn't look like this format thing will end real soon. With that in mind, I challenge each of us (myself included!) to try and take the high road. When all is said and done, we'll still have the HTF. Let's don't make this war the thing that defines us. I think other forums envy what we've got going here. I do. We were all friends before this started and no reason we can't do better now.

I am also guilty of contributing my passion to a fault too. Posted Image

Do you think the folks at Toshiba, Warner, MSoft, Sony, Disney etc...are really THAT worried about us? They're all fine people I'm sure, but they will get thru this too. They see $$ and truthfully that's it. They want US to dook it out. To bring Star Wars into this it's like the Emperor setting things in motion and letting the Peasant's take the heat. Posted Image

Not everyone reacts the same way and some here have a higher financial stake which I think does kind of affect our overall passion level. That 'passion' sometimes gets the best of us too.

There will be some who will still post knee jerk things intented to flame. They won't be able to lay aside the hatchet-all they want to see is their side winning. Let's be careful in how we react & post. I pledge to do a better job. Posted Image

I hold the morale here in high regard and want The Home Theater Forum to remain a place of character, dignity, and respect.

We can't or shouldn't hide the facts and this doesn't mean we don't discuss important stuff, sales data or whatever. We shouldn't scare away from reporting solid info...But I know we can do a better job of how we do it. Posted Image

It will also be easier on the Moderators.

Remember, this is a hobby, we're all friends, and we'll remain so long after all of this goes down. Posted Image

#2 of 79 OFFLINE   Todd_N

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Posted July 20 2007 - 02:18 AM

Well said Tim. I am primarily just a lurker here but have been a member of this forum since 97. Great post.

#3 of 79 OFFLINE   Alf S

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Posted July 20 2007 - 02:19 AM

Well said..

Yes having two formats has indeed created a great deal of unwanted anger and frustrations in the forum world, but sadly no matter how one tries to stop it, it will keep going at a steady pace .

Heck if one format "wins" then we'll see months and months of posts from the people who chose the "loser" arguing that their choice was the better choice and the "winner" sucks etc etc....

Me thinks this will go down as the most abrasive time in the HT forum world..even compared to when SD DVD showed up.
WOOSAH!.

 


#4 of 79 OFFLINE   ppltd

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Posted July 20 2007 - 02:34 AM

Let's see the upside here. Hmm. Less typingPosted Image , lower blood pressurePosted Image , better attitude (after leaving the forum for the night)Posted Image , less time spent responding to postsPosted Image , Bottom line. Leaves more time for watching High Def movies.Posted Image Good post, Tim.
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#5 of 79 OFFLINE   BrettB

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Posted July 20 2007 - 02:51 AM

Quote:
Burying The Formar War Hatchet...

Interesting choice of words. Very violent imagery. Posted Image

#6 of 79 OFFLINE   ppltd

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Posted July 20 2007 - 03:01 AM

Posted Image
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrettB
Interesting choice of words. Very violent imagery. Posted Image
Posted Image and checking the back of my head for anything sticking out.Posted Image Tim, good job on the post.Posted Image
Thomas Eisenmann(Last updated 09/30/11)

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1124 BDs and going up, 1028 - DVDs and going down.


#7 of 79 ONLINE   RobertR

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Posted July 20 2007 - 03:52 AM

As usual, Tim, you show yourself to be one of the genuinely nice people on here. Well said Posted Image

#8 of 79 OFFLINE   Nick Graham

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Posted July 20 2007 - 04:39 AM

I think the format war has been the most destructive thing ever for sites such as this. Many of the forums that I used to frequent have become totally worthless singlehandedly due to the format war. I watched the EMA drama thread with a sinking feeling that HTF was about to fall victim to the same thing, but hopefully it won't. I think that a lot of people jumped into one side or the other without the needed understanding that investing in a format war is always a risk, and if one side or the other loses or gains ground, getting emotional over the ebbs and flows indicates that you weren't ready to jump in to begin with. We honestly should have all just stuck to our guns on our stance from a year ago that we would boycott both sides - we sold out by jumping in and encouraging the CE manufacturers and studios to continue this farce.

#9 of 79 OFFLINE   Tim Glover

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Posted July 20 2007 - 04:43 AM

Thank you Robert. Posted Image

Brett you are a funny guy...I can imagine you igniting laughter after a few beers with the boys. Posted Image

#10 of 79 OFFLINE   Southpaw

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Posted July 20 2007 - 04:55 AM

I totally agree Tim. I just sat in the back row during the panel discussion at HME, shaking my head.
Some people are taking this thing a little too seriously.

#11 of 79 OFFLINE   Paul Arnette

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Posted July 20 2007 - 04:56 AM

I think the fact that we, as a group, are already proactively attempting to correct our own preceived shortcomings in regards to how this format war as affected our online community speaks volumes. There are places far worse than this one that'll never admit it.

That being said, I will personally resist the temptation to be snarky. I feel I do try hard not to be, but I'm not perfect. Who is afterall?

I still hold that it would be easier to exhibit more decorum around here if we could get the focus back on HDM software as opposed to the format war. Whether you accomplish that by creating a separate forum or a series of sticky threads, I don't know. But coming in here what I would ultimately like to see is sticky threads for the following:

HDM General Discussion
HDM Sales
BD Press Releases
HD DVD Press Releases
BD Release Dates
HD DVD Release Dates

...and then only posts about studios adopting formats and new title announcements. I apologize if anyone feels I am telling them how to do their job, but I really do think it would make life easier on all of us.
Universal Blu-ray Discs I will not be buying while they're offered only as Blu-ray + DVD 'flipper' discs:

The Jackal
, Out of Africa, and Traffic.

#12 of 79 OFFLINE   Marko Berg

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Posted July 20 2007 - 05:01 AM

What, the going gets tough for a while in a few EMA threads and Tim suddenly can't take it anymore? What a sissy! Posted Image

What happened to the Tim who posted this? Posted Image









In all seriousness, that was a nice post Tim.

#13 of 79 OFFLINE   Shawn Perron

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Posted July 20 2007 - 05:28 AM

I think part of some of the strife is that some people HAVE to reply whenever someone makes a statement they disagree with. It's like you can't have a differing opinion without being rebutted even if the rebutted point is wildly off topic for the thread. It's one thing to argue about something in a thread dedicated to it, but this place starts to seem like a battlezone when every thread goes off topic into the same few hot button issues.

#14 of 79 OFFLINE   Bleddyn Williams

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Posted July 20 2007 - 05:41 AM

Nice post Tim. When I bought my HD DVD player from Costco a few months ago, and picked up some titles, I was delighted. Being able to enjoy HD media has been a real joy for me, and I love to see what's coming out.

But the sad thing is that reading forums lately has been often a source of aggravation rather than fun. The venom that has been thrown around on both sides, and also the complete and utter bollocks talked by people who should know better has made reading some forums bad for my blood pressure. I decided to try and ignore certain sites completely for now, and get back to enjoying what matters - the movies.

Seems like a bunch of us are on the same page. Thank goodness.

#15 of 79 ONLINE   Carlo Medina

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Posted July 20 2007 - 05:42 AM

So am I the only one who finds it hard to take a guy whose avatar shows him holding two lightsabers seriously? Posted Image

I kid! I kid!

I agree with a lot of what’s been posted. I never bought into the concept of a format “war”. Yes there are two competing formats, but are we—as consumers—really the combatants? If someone defines themselves as such, one should ask why? What do we have at stake? We aren’t the content providers. We aren’t the hardware manufacturers. What do we have at stake that would make us warriors in this war?

Potential “rationales” for people participating in this “war”, and why it doesn’t make sense:

Rationale #1: Some would say they have a stake because they paid good money for their HD-DVD or Blu-Ray player and software and don’t want it to go to waste.

Rebuttal: I’m sorry, but that was a risk that you took, and that you should have taken knowing that you have a roughly 50% chance of being obsolete in a year or two. No one held a gun to your head to buy your HD-DVD or Blu-Ray player. The only way to assure you weren’t going to be obsolete was to wait it out. You chose not to, so don’t go browbeating someone on the other side in order to justify the risk you voluntarily undertook.

Rationale #2: If I talk down the other side, other people will see that my format is superior, and buy it, and then I’ll be on the winning team!

Rebuttal: Hi. Welcome to something we call “The Internet”. This is called a “bulletin board” or “forum”. Let’s just say that the track record for resolving arguments that are emotional and/or contentious is...not good. Please don’t mistake this as the equivalent of your high school Lincoln-Douglas debate, where logic will rule the day and you’ll be able to abolish slavery and end the Civil War. Far from achieving any consensus, we’ll be lucky to keep this “war” from turning into a Star Wars thread. By the way, the NT sucks compared to the OT. Posted Image

Meanwhile, solutions to neither of these rationales are obtained. But what the “warriors” do manage to do is alienate roughly half of their fellow early adopters with their snarky, smarmy, or anger-ridden posts. Like it or not, this war will not be decided by the early adopters. It will be decided by the masses, who will either choose to go HD or stay in DVD.

I bought a PS3 because I’m a game junkie. I liked that it came with BD capability because I’m also a movie junkie. I plan on getting a ton of usage out of it. If HD-DVD wins in the next year or two, that doesn’t deactivate my PS3 or my library of about 30 BD movies. I will be able to watch them for the foreseeable future. And in a year or two, HD-DVD players will be sub-$200. Yeah, I would rather not spend that money, but I paid $500 for my first Toshiba 2006 DVD player in May of 1997. Paying less than half that for an HD-DVD player, while having nearly doubled my salary of 1997, well it ain’t gonna be the end of the world. Meanwhile, I’m not about to piss off my fellow HTF’ers by getting in a pissing match over something that we basically have very little (or truthfully no) control over.

My hatchet’s not buried. I never wielded it in the first place.

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#16 of 79 OFFLINE   Ron-P

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Posted July 20 2007 - 05:50 AM

Well said Tim, well said...and I'm right there with ya. In fact, I have supported both formats since day one, you'll not find a post by me stating otherwise. I buried the "War Hatchet" myself by buying into both. The war is over for me so it's on to watching movies with the best A/V available.

I'm willing to bet that as the prices fall on these players more and more people will be buying into both formats, after all, neither is going anywhere anytime soon. I believe we will have both formats for years to come.
You have all the weapons you need...Now fight!


#17 of 79 OFFLINE   Paul_Scott

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Posted July 20 2007 - 05:58 AM

It's amazing how your attitudes and perceptions change when you have a player for each format.
I used to enjoy every opportunity to post snarky comments about the 'other' side, but now I enjoy the ability to post snarky comments about both sides.

And believe me, they both deserve it.

#18 of 79 OFFLINE   ReggieW

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Posted July 20 2007 - 06:13 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Arnette
I still hold that it would be easier to exhibit more decorum around here if we could get the focus back on HDM software as opposed to the format war.


Bingo, Paul.

I know I got quite peeved yesterday when Adam reported that he couldn't really get any questions/discussions in about forthcoming releases because of all of the arguing over the "format war." I've even heard insiders over at AVS say that they're even getting tired of it. From their vantage point, it is starting to become a waste of time as most people asking the questions will simply dismiss what they say if the they happen to support "the other side." I agree with Tim: HT enjoyment seems to have taken a backseat to this war. For example, wouldn't it have been nice if Bill Hunt or other audience members had instead focused on asking questions regarding their software plans? I think it's great that Ron & Parker haven't taken sides in this ridiculous war, and kudos to DVD Talk as well, who have also started to take flak from fanboys for their neutral stance. Once you begin taking sides, you ultimately end up promoting the hostility which is all too commonplace at HT sites these days. For example, I used to read the Digital Bits daily despite my disagreements with Hunt on SOME of his conclusions, but it has been two weeks since I've visited that site (I should add, this was not a CONSCIOUS decision on my part, I think I've instinctively grown tired of the bickering). It's one thing to have an opinion, and I had always defended his right to have one, but imho, it has now turned into BD evangelism. All news and announcements on "the other format" are lessened, ignored, or dismissed outright. It all seems rather childish, which is why the HTF is the ONLY HT site I will continue to exclusively post on. I've openly stated that ALL studios should go dual format to render this war irrelevent, but I guess there is to much greed/ego riding on this to accept such a proposition. Ultimately, we HT fans become the losers in the end regardless of which side we choose.

Thanks for airing this Tim. Great Topic, and I fully agree.
More Harlow on DVD Now! - Red Dust, Bombshell, Hold Your Man, Saratoga, The Iron Man, Goldie, The Secret Six, Beast of the City, Three Wise Girls, Reckless, Personal Property, Riff-raff, Suzy & Girl from Missouri

#19 of 79 OFFLINE   DavidJ

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Posted July 20 2007 - 06:22 AM

What bunch of can't-we-get-a-hug, whining losers...your format will lose and downloading will reign supreme.






Posted Image

Obviously, I am just kidding.

Quote:
I think most of us here love the Home Theater Forum. I know I do. There are other forums out there that do a good service as well. But there's not another place quite like the HTF. I spend more time here than any other place (except during A&M Football Season )

I too love this forum and while I do visit other forums, I have found that as this "war" has progressed I am spending less time at those other forums and more time here. The discussion here is excellent and the moderators do a great job of keeping things from getting out of hand. It is the best run forum I have ever participated in and is an oasis in the desert that is the world wide web. Of course, I think the membership here has quite a bit to do with that as well.

#20 of 79 OFFLINE   Cees Alons

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Posted July 20 2007 - 06:23 AM

Excellent post, Tim! Really.

Posted Image


Cees


(PS: I stuck this thread!)






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I am format neutral - it's many studios, that's who are not.
And a few fanboys and followers.


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