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New Hard Boiled DVD has dubtitles


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#1 of 91 MilesH

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Posted July 18 2007 - 03:16 PM

I picked up the new Dragon Dynasty edition of Hard Boiled today and to my shock it contains dubtitles (subtitles copied verbatim from the awful English dub track). They didn't even bother providing subtitles for the Cantonese dialogue. I'd hang on to your Criterion DVDs if you don't understand Cantonese because the dubtitles are a joke. I can’t believe DVD Beaver is actually recommending this DVD. I'm returning this POS to the store.

#2 of 91 Russell G

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Posted July 18 2007 - 04:07 PM

did you try both subtitle tracks? It lists having subtitles and subs for the hearing impared. Just wondering if they are the same or not.

#3 of 91 Cees Alons

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Posted July 18 2007 - 08:18 PM

Miles,

I'm sure I don't even understand the problem you're sketching, and that must be me.

Do you want Cantonese subtitles in Chinese characters as an option? In that case, I understand why you're disappointed, but I don't see how it could help people who "don't understand Cantonese".

Normally if I watch a DVD from a country I don't speak the language of, I choose the original language track and select subtitles of a language I do understand, often English.

So isn't that what they're offering?

Or are you dissatisfied with the quality of the translation (which is a totally different problem)?


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#4 of 91 Kris Z.

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Posted July 18 2007 - 09:48 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cees Alons
Or are you dissatisfied with the quality of the translation (which is a totally different problem)?
This would be the problem. Dubtitles mean that the subtitles are not translated from the original language track, but just transcribed from the dubbed track. Sometimes it works OK, oftentimes the result can be quite terrible. Not only is there a chance you will get subtitles that are nowhere near representative of what is said in the original language, but occasionally dub tracks even have inserted or removed lines, or re-edited dialogue timing, meaning subtitles can show up when no one is speaking in the original, or no subtitle shows up when they are.

#5 of 91 Cees Alons

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Posted July 18 2007 - 10:24 PM

Quote:
the subtitles are not translated from the original language track,
But the dubbing should have been.

So the real problem is a bad translation (when they did the dubbing)? Which can also occur, of course, when they translate to subtitles. BTW, even same-language subs aren't always one-to-one.


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#6 of 91 Kris Z.

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Posted July 18 2007 - 11:14 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cees Alons
But the dubbing should have been.

So the real problem is a bad translation (when they did the dubbing)? Which can also occur, of course, when they translate to subtitles. BTW, even same-language subs aren't always one-to-one.
Yes, but after the script has been translated for dubbing it must be adapted so it flows easily when spoken, and matches the time/lipflaps of the original dialogue in the new language. And this is where they often have to take liberties to make it fit better and also kind of "interpret" the script into their own words, often introducing or removing whatever parts the dubbing scriptwriter/director feels needs to be changed, and inconsistencies with the original language track are introduced.

Direct subtitle translations don't have anywhere near the same restrictions and are usually a much more literal and closer translation, and not often messed around with.

In short, and generalising a bit: true subtitles = translation, dubs/dubtitles = adaptation.

#7 of 91 Russell G

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Posted July 19 2007 - 02:17 AM

that's interesting.

Do we have confirmation from anyone else that this release is botched?

#8 of 91 PaulP

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Posted July 19 2007 - 03:02 AM

Doesn't this have two sets of English subtites?

#9 of 91 Russell G

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Posted July 19 2007 - 03:05 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulP
Doesn't this have two sets of English subtites?

yeah I mentioned that alreadym, hence my inguiry into whether or not this is confirmed, as opposed to the lengthy discussion of what dub titles are.

#10 of 91 Michael Harris

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Posted July 19 2007 - 04:30 AM

I remember watching "Das Boot" with both the English dubbed soundtrack and subtitles on and was fascinated by the differences.

#11 of 91 Russell G

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Posted July 19 2007 - 05:28 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Harris
I remember watching "Das Boot" with both the English dubbed soundtrack and subtitles on and was fascinated by the differences.

???? WTF?

Sorry, I'm glad you all had awesome experiances watching dubbed movies with the subtitles on, but this is getting a little pendantic.

ANYONE OTHER THEN MILES OWN THIS TO CHECK BOTH SUBTITLE TRACKS AND CONFIRM ISSUE?

#12 of 91 TonyD

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Posted July 19 2007 - 06:57 AM

maybe miles is at work or sleeping.
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#13 of 91 RickER

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Posted July 19 2007 - 07:34 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyD
maybe miles is at work or sleeping.

Cause other than that none of us have a life? Right! Posted Image

#14 of 91 Russell G

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Posted July 19 2007 - 07:45 AM

pretty much really Rick. Why do you think I'm so outraged? If I had a life, I wouldn't care so much. Posted Image

I only get MAD BECAUE I LOVE YOU ALL !!! FEEL IT!!

Body humps for hard boiled thread!! Posted Image

Where the hell is this "Miles". Anyone hear of him before? I want answers damn it!! Theres a process involved before posting "this release sucks" threads, and I don't think he fully followed it. It's a science PEOPLE!! COME ON!!

MILES!!
his name was miles right?

#15 of 91 Lord Dalek

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Posted July 19 2007 - 09:29 AM

Well Gary at DVDBeaver seems to agree with Miles.

Its funny though that if there are* two sepparate subtitle tracks that they should say the same exact thing.

*and this is an assumption.

#16 of 91 TonyD

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Posted July 19 2007 - 09:30 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by RickER
Cause other than that none of us have a life? Right! Posted Image
true, but what i was getting at was he posted at 11 p last night and maybe went to bed.
woke up went to work.
still isnt home from work yet.

benefit of the ......

miles were are you.
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#17 of 91 Russell G

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Posted July 19 2007 - 09:36 AM

okay good, thank Captain Cyberman. I appreciate the confirmation, now we know the release is screwed and can buy or not buy accordingly.

Finally!! I can SLEEP AGAIN!

#18 of 91 Jim_K

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Posted July 19 2007 - 09:41 AM

Dubtitles? DUBTITLES for chrissakes?!!! fuck that shit!

If this contains dubtitles I'll scratch this off of my "holding off for the HD version" list.
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#19 of 91 Matthew Brown

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Posted July 19 2007 - 11:54 AM

One review said that the image is slightly cropped and the image is stretched.

As much as I am against dubtitles, I've seen this movie enough where I don't need subtitles.

I am curious about the image though. I've seen this recently and it was supposed to be John Woo's personal print and there were lots of scratches in the image at the reel changes.

I don't feel I have a perfect version of this one. The Criterion is too dark. The Fox is too bright. The first Mei Ah is a flipper. The second Mei Ah has some problems as well. I didn't get the Tartan versions because of the PAL speedup. I had high hopes for this one.
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#20 of 91 Brandon Conway

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Posted July 19 2007 - 01:06 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Dalek
Its funny though that if there are* two sepparate subtitle tracks that they should say the same exact thing.

*and this is an assumption.

Even if the English SDH subtitles are translated from the original Chinese and not transcribed from the English dub, an individual who does not need subtitles for being hard of hearing shouldn't have to watch subtitles with audio cues (e.g., "[PHONE RINGS]" or "TIM: I said we should...", etc.).

"And now the reprimand, from an American critic. He reproaches me for using film as a sacred & lasting medium, like a painting or a book. He does not believe that filmmaking is an inferior art, but he believes, and quite rightly, that a reel goes quickly, that the public are looking above all for relaxation, that film is fragile and that it is pretentious to express the power of one's soul by such ephemeral and delicate means, that Charlie Chaplin's or Buster Keaton's first films can only be seen on very rare and badly spoiled prints. I add that the cinema is making daily progress and that eventually films that we consider marvelous today will soon be forgotten because of new dimensions & colour. This is true. But for 4 weeks this film [The Blood of a Poet] has been shown to audiences that have been so attentive, so eager & so warm, that I wonder after all there is not an anonymous public who are looking for more than relaxation in the cinema." - Jean Cocteau, 1932



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