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Image Entertainment and GalleryPlayer go Blu.


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29 replies to this topic

#1 of 30 Adam_R

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Posted July 17 2007 - 03:38 AM

http://dvd.ign.com/a...5/805118p1.html

From the article:

"HD Lifestyle Imagery demands the highest quality visual presentation and consumer experience, which Blu-ray discs deliver. Blu-ray discs are clearly the preferred choice, currently outselling HD-DVDs, and we're launching our most popular content on the most popular platform. It's a winning combination for GalleryPlayer, Blu-ray and millions of consumers."
Guess what...

#2 of 30 Austan

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Posted July 17 2007 - 03:48 AM

"Blu-ray and millions of consumers."

hmmm... PS3 owners???Posted Image

#3 of 30 Cees Alons

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Posted July 17 2007 - 03:51 AM

Another format-exclusivist?

Posted Image


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#4 of 30 Jari K

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Posted July 17 2007 - 03:52 AM

"1000 Places to See Before You Die: 50 Favorite Destinations, The Amazing World of National Geographic, Art Wolfe: Vanishing Act, and 50 Paintings from the Museum of Modern Art."

Hmm... "Nature and art" stuff. At this point - no thanks. Good news for many, though.

#5 of 30 BrettB

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Posted July 17 2007 - 07:12 AM

Isn't there some connection to Criterion though?

#6 of 30 Adam_R

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Posted July 17 2007 - 11:20 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cees Alons
Another format-exclusivist?

Posted Image


Cees




---------------------------------------------------------------------
I am format neutral - it's many studios, that's who are not.
And a few fanboys and followers.

PLEASE explain to me how this is bad thing? Do you enjoy having 2 formats? Do you think that it's good for consumers? The industry? The more BluRay exclusives the better IMHO. If HD-DVD was selling 2:1 over Blu, I'd want it to go the other way. I just want a winner ASAP. I have both formats, but want a winner SOON so I can more good films.
Guess what...

#7 of 30 Cees Alons

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Posted July 17 2007 - 11:36 AM

Quote:
Please explain to me how this is a bad thing.
Adam, I've done that in many other threads. Please read my arguments there if you're genuinely interested.

In short: the mere existence of two formats have never made a "war" (see incompatible record formats in the fifties and sixties, floppy disc formats in the eighties and nineties).

The "war" aspect is solely caused by studios who release exclusively on 1 format only, so consumers are hindered and have less means of choosing for themselves. Also, the absence of a dual-format player makes it a pain to have those two incompatible formats in a library, while the war-aspect would totally be lifted if we could buy affordable combi-players.

The strong competition of two formats has brought us many gains: better price, better quality, etc.

With so many consumers (and members of our forum) who have bought into Blu-ray as wel as HD DVD (not necessarily the same members Posted Image ), it has become disadvantageous, almost a-social, to wish that one format would totally disappear. With the above mentioned solutions (studios all going format-neutral and/or affordable complete dual-format players readily available) all current problems attached to the existence of 2 formats would disappear, instead of the formats themselves.

Every studio going to release on both formats is not (or no longer) engaged in the format war, because the whole population of HD-players owners are their potential customers, and they don't force any consumer to a choice.


Cees





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And a few fanboys and followers.

#8 of 30 Brian Kaz

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Posted July 17 2007 - 12:16 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cees Alons
Adam, I've done that in many other threads. Please read my arguments there if you're genuinely interested.

In short: the mere existence of two formats have never made a "war" (see incompatible record formats in the fifties and sixties, floppy disc formats in the eighties and nineties).

The "war" aspect is solely caused by studios who release exclusively on 1 format only, so consumers are hindered and have less means of choosing for themselves. Also, the absence of a dual-format player makes it a pain to have those two incompatible formats in a library, while the war-aspect would totally be lifted if we could buy affordable combi-players.

The strong competition of two formats has brought us many gains: better price, better quality, etc.

With so many consumers (and members of our forum) who have bought into Blu-ray as wel as HD DVD (not necessarily the same members Posted Image ), it has become disadvantageous, almost a-social, to wish that one format would totally disappear. With the above mentioned solutions (studios all going format-neutral and/or affordable complete dual-format players readily available) all current problems attached to the existence of 2 formats would disappear, instead of the formats themselves.

Every studio going to release on both formats is not (or no longer) engaged in the format war, because the whole population of HD-players owners are their potential customers, and they don't force any consumer to a choice.

I personally never got this line of thinking. DVD shows us everyday that one format can give you:

- low hardware prices
- low software prices
- endless variety of hardware
- endless variety of software

giving consumers tons of choices.

Though, I would love to see Universal be the first exclusive to give us a "choice" by going neutral! Posted Image

#9 of 30 Cees Alons

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Posted July 17 2007 - 12:29 PM

No.
As long as 1 major studio will still be format-exclusive, there should be a format-exclusive studio on the "other" side.

Quote:
I personally never got this line of thinking. DVD shows us everyday that one format can give you:
Reverse thinking.
We do have two formats currently. Now the question is: what can that give you. Just a terrible war and not any of the goodies you mention?

Once we had 2 incompatible floppy formats (720k and 1,440k). Format war? No. And programs were released on the (size of) the format they needed.

Once we had 3 incompatible record formats (78 rpm, 45 rpm, 33 rpm). Format war? No, again.

Two formats not a war doth make. Each format may have it's typical use and place in the market.

Exclusivity and non-compatible players: that establishes a "war" and tend to bar the consumer from the decision process of a free market.


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And a few fanboys and followers.

#10 of 30 Brian Kaz

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Posted July 17 2007 - 01:27 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cees Alons
No.
As long as 1 major studio will still be format-exclusive, there should be a format-exclusive studio on the "other" side.

No. You have every major studio but one onboard a single format. Uni is keeping the consumer confusion going and hindering a speedier adoption of HDM. With 100% support of ONE format, there's no need for extra cost of hybrid players and two different media packages on store shelves.

**EDIT** Remember, too: The remaining semi-majors (Dreamworks, etc.) say they are waiting to see how this war pans out before jumping in. The longer this war drags on, the longer we wait for their content.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cees Alons
Once we had 2 incompatible floppy formats (720k and 1,440k). Format war? No. And programs were released on the (size of) the format they needed.

We also have computer software burned onto CDs and DVDs. I don't get the connection this has with Home video formats. People didn't collect 100's and 100's of movies on floppy disk.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cees Alons
Once we had 3 incompatible record formats (78 rpm, 45 rpm, 33 rpm). Format war? No, again.

I'm not sure there could've been a format war with vinyl records. As far as I know, 78rpm records were replaced by 45rpm and 33rpm because they were easy to break. These two speeds were needed for different reasons: 45rpm played single song EPs and 33rpm played full album LPs.

#11 of 30 Shane Martin

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Posted July 17 2007 - 01:32 PM

Quote:
Isn't there some connection to Criterion though?
if you use beatboy's logic and apply it. Criterion has stated many times they are staying out of it.

#12 of 30 Jeff Adkins

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Posted July 17 2007 - 01:47 PM

There's no connection to Criterion whatsoever unless you count the fact that Image Entertainment is doing distribution for both GalleryPlayer and Criterion. Hell, if I paid Image the right amount of money, I'd be willing to bet they would distribute my title on VCD. Genius Products is another example. They do distribution for The Weinstein Company (HD-DVD) and Tartan (Blu-Ray). While it is interesting that these smaller studios are all starting to align themselves with Blu-Ray, Image will ultimately distribute Criterion titles on whatever format Criterion wishes.

If I had to guess, I'd say Criterion is going to hold out for a few months more.

#13 of 30 Romier S

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Posted July 17 2007 - 02:02 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Kaz
No. You have every major studio but one onboard a single format. Uni is keeping the consumer confusion going and hindering a speedier adoption of HDM. With 100% support of ONE format, there's no need for extra cost of hybrid players and two different media packages on store shelves.
Shush you! You might confuse him with logic and reason.Posted Image

#14 of 30 Adam_R

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Posted July 17 2007 - 02:07 PM

Thanks for the reply. I was genuinely interested.

I think the facts show that multiple formats delays mass adoption which, in turn, keeps prices higher and keeps the best movies out of my hands for a while.

Fact, no?

And none of the "format wars" you mentioned meant diddley squat compared to this since the users were hardly as informed as the users are these days. We're too smart (or dumb). That's the problem.
Guess what...

#15 of 30 Cees Alons

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Posted July 17 2007 - 07:58 PM

Quote:
Fact, no?
No, I don't think so.

It struck me, whenever I double dip on a title, that the HD version appears to be cheaper than the SDVD version I bought before. That was even on SDVD releases bought after the initial introduction period of DVD, and even on relatively recent purchases.

Quote:
And none of the "format wars" you mentioned meant diddley squat compared to this since the users were hardly as informed as the users are these days. We're too smart (or dumb). That's the problem.
The similarity lies in the fact that they couldn't play on unmodified players, and in case of the record formats, that the user had to be aware of the format (well, you heard it soon enough if you chose the wrong setting, but it still had to be adjusted by hand). Also: players only suited for 1 of the formats existed.

Remember the DTS/DD situation on SDVD? Special players, special decoders needed!

We're not so much smarter: most people arguing that one of the HD-formats should disappear act as if they believe the two formats are basically equal. In fact, they have different characteristics, making them specifically suited for different cases (I don't mean the 'envelope' Posted Image ) and applications. It would be a loss if one of them disappeared.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Romier S
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Kaz
... With 100% support of ONE format, there's no need for extra cost of hybrid players and two different media packages on store shelves.
Shush you! You might confuse him with logic and reason.Posted Image
Heh, heh.

Yet, I don't think it's necessarily so. Posted Image

A few months ago I bought a DVD player for my daughter. It plays SDVD (all regions), DTS, DD, CD, DVD R+, DVD R-, SACD, and a few more, I really forget. And you know what? There are many players on the market supporting less and costing more.
A BD/HD DVD player isn't even *that* much of a physical hybrid: both use the same blue laser diode. An important difference lies in the superposed metalevel (firmware). Prices could go quickly below the sum of the prices of dedicated players and even get close to a single one.

Different media packages on the shelf? Like they used to have a Widescreen version and a P&S version laying next to each other? The P&S version often selling twice as much as the WS-version, BTW, and me still not wanting the WS version to disappear. Or a DTS-version next to a DD-version (necessitating a suitable, player and receiver!). Or the Criterion version next to the Kino version? Or, in bookshops, a Hardcover format next to a Paperback one (even several)? Or different vacuum cleaners, shavers (some with a quite different system - to "confuse" the consumer) or many travel clocks, or hammers, electric drills, etc. or any other of the blessings of the free market / consumers choice aspects the people in the USoA were proud of one time?

Please don't tell me that necessarily increased the price of those items!

And weren't we 'all' extremely appalled when some retailers announced they would sell one format, P&S, only? Posted Image


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#16 of 30 Shawn Perron

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Posted July 18 2007 - 01:51 AM

Cees, can you and Thomas agree on a form response whenever most of the other forum members say there should only be one format? The numerous posts both of you have made over the last few weeks denying it would be more efficient. Just copy and paste once per thread each and then just link back to it over and over. Posted Image

#17 of 30 Cees Alons

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Posted July 18 2007 - 02:46 AM

Shawn,

If you cared to actually read a thread, instead of just making "funny" snide remarks, you would have seen (post #6 and 7) that I hesitantly explained my opinion in answer to a specific question.

And your post is way out of line in any other aspect too.


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I am format neutral - it's many studios, that's who are not.
And a few fanboys and followers.

#18 of 30 Shawn Perron

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Posted July 18 2007 - 03:03 AM

Quote:
And your post is way out of line in any other aspect too.

It seems like every thread where someone makes a comment that they would prefer one format ends up with you are Thomas going off topic and discussing why you feel both formats need to exist while the other forum members rebut you over and over. Perhaps a thread dedicated to it would be in order instead of multiple posts on it in all the other threads? Posted Image

Quote:
If you cared to actually read a thread, instead of just making "funny" snide remarks, you would have seen (post #6 and 7) that I hesitantly explained my opinion in answer to a specific question.

This is hardly the only thread where this is being discussed.

#19 of 30 Rob Young

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Posted July 18 2007 - 03:03 AM

Cees is correct. It is SIMPLE to grasp that having two formats isn't the problem but having exclusive studio support is. I've said this since day one. when people have preached on about how "their" format was better.

Why should studios decide which format is king by basically "forcing" buyers to support it? If they all released on both formats then you could see what the "consumer choice is" since people would be buying the format/players not the "exclusivity" factor crap.

Why is that so hard for people to understand? Many people do not "prefer" blu-ray because they feel it is better...they bought it because studios sort of made them by exclusivity crap.

Oh and the comment of Cees about the PS and WS versions of DVDs is GOLD...so I guess using the logic of some here that the WS should have been knocked out if the PS version was selling more.

I also agree how the prices of current discs are FINE and people who think they will just magically instantly drop to dvd or below levels if there is one format are dreaming. Same with players. Do people really think players would be where they are if there wasn't competition? Suuuuure. There'd still be only 800-1k blu ray player prices.

I for one do not think the dual format stuff is the reason for sluggish sales. I think it is simply the fact MOST people are happy with dvd.

Game consoles show there can be different "formats" and still be OK. There are countless industries that show it can be fine.

I have no prob with there being one format (I own both so do not care either way) especially with the huge weighting of studio exclusivity but for people to act like two formats are sooooooooo bad....they just aren't thinking past a simplistic level and apparently feel that 100+ mil humans want to just jump into the HD on disc game if there is one format and that players will be 100 bucks. Sorry, that ain't happening.

You know, I hope one format "wins" soon so people can see how the continued sluggish sales were not the result of 2 formats.

Oh and a person implied that people may be too smart to accept 2 formats these days. No, IMO people are too dumb to accept it. Not saying anyone specifically here but consumers in general may be too dumb to deal with it.

#20 of 30 Cees Alons

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Posted July 18 2007 - 03:16 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawn Perron
This is hardly the only thread where this is being discussed.
Which is exactly my point in post #7. So if you refuse to read previous posts and then react with (unavoidably) inappropriate remarks like that, you can no longer be taken serious.


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