- Joined
- Jun 20, 2004
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- 3,527
- Real Name
- Richard W
Am I the only one disappointed in the restoration of this classic and influential Peckinpah western? I'm disappointed that more footage from the director's Workprint (disc 2 in the set) did not make it into Seydor's version (disc 1). In fact, I wish Seydor had tightened up the Workprint and finished the audio instead of creating a new version out of the Theatrical Release with inserts from the Workprint.
I wish Seydor had assembled a documentary that compares the Theatrical Release to Peckinpah's Workprint, like WB did for THE BIG SLEEP, and then show us how he, Seydor, finished the Workprint. Show us the differences instead of talking about them in the commentaries. Further, I wish he had stuck with Peckinpah's freeze-frame titles in the Workprint instead of the still-life title sequence from the Theatrical Release. The freeze-frame titles in the Workprint have a way of making us remember who these characters are; by the end of the film, Garrett will have killed all of them. I'm not too stupid to understand the difference between credits and intertitles that identify time and place, and neither is the audience, but this is the reason Seydor gives for replacing the freeze-frame titles with the still-life titles. The still-life titles from the Theatrical Release are really nice but Peckinpah never intended it to be there. So put it in the documentary Seydor should have made.
At first glance I appreciated how Seydor re-instates the opening of Garrett being assassinated (in the present) intercut with the Kid and his men at target practice shooting the heads off chickens (in the past). When the Kid fires at a chicken, Peckinpah cuts to Garrett being shot; when an assassin fires at Garrett, Peckinpah cuts to the head of a chicken being blasted away. The effect of showing the impact of the past on the present is restored, and made more effective by some pointed editing. But the scene doesn't feel quite right. The shots are there but the emotional impact is gone. Seydor cuts the footage too tightly. He doesn't know when to linger on the moment, as Peckinpah did.
Two different scenes in the Workprint appear to be unfinished because Peckinpah didn't shoot them to play on their own. John Poe's harassment of some old miners should intercut with Garrett's harassment of young prostitutes. Neither scene works well without intercutting the other. Instead, Seydor drops Poe's harassment of the old miners entirely, and then organizes all the footage of Garrett with the prostitutes into chronological order for his new version. Organizing the footage into chronological order is merely the first step toward intercutting the two scenes, and perhaps trimming the edges, but Seydor doesn't seem to realize that Peckinpah shot these sequences as two halves of a whole. To leave it the way it is, as an uninterrupted soft-core sex scene, is inappropriate and way over-the-top.
Seydor re-instates the vocal in "Knockin' On Heaven's Door" during Slim Pickens death scene, which is good, but the mix of vocal and chorus and music is all wrong. This is inexcusable when there is a Theatrical Release print and a soundtrack album to serve as reference. Much of the music in the Workprint comes from rehearsals and rough takes that were never intended to be the final score. But Seydor uses it instead of the final score, which is in the Theatrical Release and on the soundtrack album.
Seydor also re-instates the crucial scene in which Pat Garrett visits his wife and argues with her. Seydor explains that this scene was in the Workprint when Peckinpah screened it for students and at lectures, as well as on TV prints, but it was inexplicably missing from the Workprint when Turner/MGM issued that on laser disc. So why doesn't Seydor simply re-instate the scene back into the Workprint? Instead he inserts it into his new version. I'm glad we get to see it finally, but I miss it not being in the Workprint.
I could go on and on about scene after scene. I question many of Paul Seydor's editorial decisions, which seem to me arbitrary and personal rather than objective and professional. I also question the need for a new, third version. Terrible thing for me to say about someone I respect, but there you have it.
As if that's not mean enough, the "extras" are amateurishly shot and should have been replaced by professionally shot supplements. The person who videotaped the extras doesn't even try to balance tungsten with daylight so you get that weird look.
I would also appreciate a commentary by the cast and crew. Damnit, I want to hear Kristofferson and crew members talk about their experience making this film, and hear whatever memories come to the surface while watching it. Sometimes commentators need to know when to shut up and listen, or at least share the microphone.
Why couldn't Seydor have just finished the Workprint, added a documentary that compares the Workprint to the Theatrical Release, and then included the Theatrical Release on disc 2? That makes a lot more sense to me than burying the Theatrical Release, which after all is a part of our collective memory. Instead Seydor creates a new, third version. His tries to explain the reasoning behind his various editorial decisions in audio commentaries, but only succeeds in creating more confusion and, I'm sorry to say, a lot of disgruntled viewers.
Let it be understood that for all his good intentions, Paul Seydor's version of PAT GARRETT AND BILLY THE KID is neither definitive nor accurate nor in accord with Peckinpah's wishes.
There's a big gaping hole in the history of westerns that could be filled with a finished and restored Workprint of PAT GARRETT AND BILLY THE KID.
Opinions?
Disagreements?
Feedback is invited.
I wish Seydor had assembled a documentary that compares the Theatrical Release to Peckinpah's Workprint, like WB did for THE BIG SLEEP, and then show us how he, Seydor, finished the Workprint. Show us the differences instead of talking about them in the commentaries. Further, I wish he had stuck with Peckinpah's freeze-frame titles in the Workprint instead of the still-life title sequence from the Theatrical Release. The freeze-frame titles in the Workprint have a way of making us remember who these characters are; by the end of the film, Garrett will have killed all of them. I'm not too stupid to understand the difference between credits and intertitles that identify time and place, and neither is the audience, but this is the reason Seydor gives for replacing the freeze-frame titles with the still-life titles. The still-life titles from the Theatrical Release are really nice but Peckinpah never intended it to be there. So put it in the documentary Seydor should have made.
At first glance I appreciated how Seydor re-instates the opening of Garrett being assassinated (in the present) intercut with the Kid and his men at target practice shooting the heads off chickens (in the past). When the Kid fires at a chicken, Peckinpah cuts to Garrett being shot; when an assassin fires at Garrett, Peckinpah cuts to the head of a chicken being blasted away. The effect of showing the impact of the past on the present is restored, and made more effective by some pointed editing. But the scene doesn't feel quite right. The shots are there but the emotional impact is gone. Seydor cuts the footage too tightly. He doesn't know when to linger on the moment, as Peckinpah did.
Two different scenes in the Workprint appear to be unfinished because Peckinpah didn't shoot them to play on their own. John Poe's harassment of some old miners should intercut with Garrett's harassment of young prostitutes. Neither scene works well without intercutting the other. Instead, Seydor drops Poe's harassment of the old miners entirely, and then organizes all the footage of Garrett with the prostitutes into chronological order for his new version. Organizing the footage into chronological order is merely the first step toward intercutting the two scenes, and perhaps trimming the edges, but Seydor doesn't seem to realize that Peckinpah shot these sequences as two halves of a whole. To leave it the way it is, as an uninterrupted soft-core sex scene, is inappropriate and way over-the-top.
Seydor re-instates the vocal in "Knockin' On Heaven's Door" during Slim Pickens death scene, which is good, but the mix of vocal and chorus and music is all wrong. This is inexcusable when there is a Theatrical Release print and a soundtrack album to serve as reference. Much of the music in the Workprint comes from rehearsals and rough takes that were never intended to be the final score. But Seydor uses it instead of the final score, which is in the Theatrical Release and on the soundtrack album.
Seydor also re-instates the crucial scene in which Pat Garrett visits his wife and argues with her. Seydor explains that this scene was in the Workprint when Peckinpah screened it for students and at lectures, as well as on TV prints, but it was inexplicably missing from the Workprint when Turner/MGM issued that on laser disc. So why doesn't Seydor simply re-instate the scene back into the Workprint? Instead he inserts it into his new version. I'm glad we get to see it finally, but I miss it not being in the Workprint.
I could go on and on about scene after scene. I question many of Paul Seydor's editorial decisions, which seem to me arbitrary and personal rather than objective and professional. I also question the need for a new, third version. Terrible thing for me to say about someone I respect, but there you have it.
As if that's not mean enough, the "extras" are amateurishly shot and should have been replaced by professionally shot supplements. The person who videotaped the extras doesn't even try to balance tungsten with daylight so you get that weird look.
I would also appreciate a commentary by the cast and crew. Damnit, I want to hear Kristofferson and crew members talk about their experience making this film, and hear whatever memories come to the surface while watching it. Sometimes commentators need to know when to shut up and listen, or at least share the microphone.
Why couldn't Seydor have just finished the Workprint, added a documentary that compares the Workprint to the Theatrical Release, and then included the Theatrical Release on disc 2? That makes a lot more sense to me than burying the Theatrical Release, which after all is a part of our collective memory. Instead Seydor creates a new, third version. His tries to explain the reasoning behind his various editorial decisions in audio commentaries, but only succeeds in creating more confusion and, I'm sorry to say, a lot of disgruntled viewers.
Let it be understood that for all his good intentions, Paul Seydor's version of PAT GARRETT AND BILLY THE KID is neither definitive nor accurate nor in accord with Peckinpah's wishes.
There's a big gaping hole in the history of westerns that could be filled with a finished and restored Workprint of PAT GARRETT AND BILLY THE KID.
Opinions?
Disagreements?
Feedback is invited.