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Flags of our Fathers "sharper" on Blu


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#41 of 83 OFFLINE   Ed St. Clair

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Posted May 23 2007 - 08:59 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterTHX
Hmmm. I watched "BB" on a calibrated 52" Sony XBR2 from a Toshiba A2 and it looked a bit soft and noisy in some shots. Reviews for "Superman Returns" were also disappointed in the picture quality, especially since it was shot digitally using the Panavision Genesis camera.
Hmmm... BB was/is soft/dark/murky, as the director intended. None the less a good amount of detail. Hence, "The Perfect Vision" #2 rated HD DVD "To Die For".
What part of "BB" was "noisy"?
Would that be the very same "Genesis" camera that was used in getting the great reviews for PQ on "Apocolipto"?
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#42 of 83 OFFLINE   Douglas Monce

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Posted May 23 2007 - 09:10 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed St. Clair
Hmmm... BB was/is soft/dark/murky, as the director intended. None the less a good amount of detail. Hence, "The Perfect Vision" #2 rated HD DVD "To Die For".
What part of "BB" was "noisy"?
Would that be the very same "Genesis" camera that was used in getting the great reviews for PQ on "Apocolipto"?

BB wasn't shot with the Genesis, Superman Returns was. Batman Begins was shot on 35mm film.

Also Apocolipto seems to be a mix of film and digital shot on the Genesis. I'm not sure why.

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#43 of 83 OFFLINE   Douglas Monce

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Posted May 23 2007 - 09:16 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterTHX
Hmmm. You must have missed the personal user reviews & comments on this and other forums very disappointed in the picture quality. Even my *Dad* commented that it didn't seem to be much of a step up from the DVD version.

Robert Harris gave it a very good review:

Quote:
As both a piece of software, as well as a theatrical experience, Superman Returns has arrived to the home theater intact, and come Highly Recommended from both aspects.

I'll trust his opinion over some anonymous person on a message board any day.

And personally I've watched both the HD version and the SD version and there is no comparison. It's night and day.

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#44 of 83 OFFLINE   ppltd

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Posted May 23 2007 - 09:21 AM

Just to put to bed some of this Superman Returns bashing nonsense:

From WS Review:

Quote:
While the HD DVD and Blu-ray Disc look very good, fine details are not as well resolved as on the best releases. Colors are vibrant, and visual effects match well with the live footage. Differences between the two high-definition formats are difficult to recognize, if there are any at all. (Danny Richelieu) (4 out of 5 stars)

From High-def Digest's Peter M. Bracke:

Quote:
That said, 'Superman Returns' looks mighty good on Blu-ray (HD DVD). Warner gives us another 1080p/VC-1 encode, and it's on a BD-50 dual-layer disc to boot. In raw tech specs, that gives it more room to play around in than its HD-30 dual-layer HD DVD counterpart. Picture quality-wise, however, it is another wash between the two formats. I picked a few scenes to compare fine details, including Clark's visit back to Smallville, the fabulous "Lois rescued from fiery airliner" crash and Superman getting the poop beat out of him by Lex and the gang. Both the Blu-ray and HD DVD deliver excellent pictures, and I'd be hard-pressed to find any Superman fan who would be disappointed...

...noise is slight in darker patches of solid color, such as the later scene when Superman visits Lois and Richard White's home on the water. Hardly major, such slight imperfections are all that keep 'Superman Returns' from rating a five-star transfer.(4.5 out of 5 stars)

Read the full reviews here:
Blu-ray Review
HD DVD Review

Hardly disappointing PQ reviews from legitimate reviewers.
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#45 of 83 OFFLINE   PeterTHX

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Posted May 23 2007 - 09:32 AM

Bracke gave a good review to the HD DVD of "Traffic" and someone on AVS showed that a 720p cable capture downsampled to 480p looked better. Most now think that the disc was a upconvert.

http://www.hometheat....perman returns

Well for those who doubt me read this thread. It was quite controversial here in our own Forum.

It was an earlier HiDef release. How many DVDs you bought in 1997/98 still look reference? Probably not too many.

#46 of 83 OFFLINE   ReggieW

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Posted May 23 2007 - 09:47 AM

"Superman Returns" looked mighty fine on my large SXRD.

As far as it not looking better than the SD-DVD.....

Peter probably meant it as a joke (I think).

I have also seen the BD version MANY times, and both HD releases look pretty identical to my eyes.
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#47 of 83 OFFLINE   Douglas Monce

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Posted May 23 2007 - 09:59 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterTHX
Bracke gave a good review to the HD DVD of "Traffic" and someone on AVS showed that a 720p cable capture downsampled to 480p looked better. Most now think that the disc was a upconvert.

http://www.hometheat....perman returns

Well for those who doubt me read this thread. It was quite controversial here in our own Forum.

That review is one man's opinion with which I disagree. Also many of the people responding to that review seemed to disagree, at which point it degenerated into another argument about lossless audio which seems to happen to every thread here no matter what the subject is.

Doug
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#48 of 83 OFFLINE   ppltd

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Posted May 23 2007 - 11:37 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterTHX
Bracke gave a good review to the HD DVD of "Traffic" and someone on AVS showed that a 720p cable capture downsampled to 480p looked better.

Someboby posted a couple of pictures resized to fit your browser that neither you nor I know how they were made.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterTHX
Most now think that the disc was a upconvert.
This generalization is without merit. Most what? Who would they be? Might have been better and more honest if you stated some have questioned whether this was an upconverted release, which would still be a silly assumption.

BTW, Bracke wrote the following:
Quote:
Bottom line, this HD DVD transfer delivers. The source material is as good as the film stock allow, with no major defects visible such as print tears or distracting blemishes, though grain is intentionally excessive for much of the film. Black levels are consistent throughout, while contrast is all over the map. Some story threads have whites so blown out that fine detail is all but obscured, while others are bathed in darkness or excessively saturated colors. Thus, there is some noise and smeared hues, but again it appears intentional. Overall detail and depth to the image is about as good as can be expected. No, I was never blown away by the presentation as I've been with other HD DVD releases, but then I never anticipated otherwise.

While he did give the film a 4 out of 5 rating on the PQ, it had more to do with the HD capturing the original films look and feel, and Traffic was a very blown out grainy film to start with.
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#49 of 83 OFFLINE   ppltd

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Posted May 23 2007 - 11:51 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Douglas Monce
at which point it degenerated into another argument about lossless audio which seems to happen to every thread here no matter what the subject is.

Doug
Amen to that. Every discusion seems to degrade into the lossless, bitrate, disk capacity arguments that never change and as of yet are unproven on either side of the fight.
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#50 of 83 OFFLINE   PeterTHX

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Posted May 23 2007 - 11:52 AM

Point is Bracke gave a good review to something ("Traffic") that looks better on HD cable.

Those "pro" reviewers often have equipment worse than ours (like watching on a 720p display instead of a 1080p display) so I don't always trust them, much like movie reviews.

Did "SR" get the general consensus it looks great like "Pirates" or "Matrix"? No.

#51 of 83 OFFLINE   ppltd

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Posted May 23 2007 - 11:59 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterTHX
Point is Bracke gave a good review to something ("Traffic") that looks better on HD cable.
Says a poster in AVS? Certainly nothing that has been verified by a professional,. Just an anounomous poster. Just FUD until proven elsewise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterTHX
Those "pro" reviewers often have equipment worse than ours (like watching on a 720p display instead of a 1080p display) so I don't always trust them, much like movie reviews.
Better to trust that poster in AVS? I think not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterTHX
Did "SR" get the general consensus it looks great like "Pirates" or "Matrix"? No.
Different movies. SR looked about as good as the theatrical release, which IMHO would pasty and unrealistic. Why would you expect it to look better?

Same problem in trying to compare Matrix to POC, one dark and heavily tinted with subdued colors, the other bright and vivid, almost cartoon like. The only real question is, did the HD or BD capture the movie the way it was meant to be viewed. In the case of all four, 'Traffic', 'POC', 'Matrix' and 'SR' I think the answer is a resounding Yes.
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#52 of 83 OFFLINE   Douglas Monce

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Posted May 23 2007 - 12:10 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterTHX
Point is Bracke gave a good review to something ("Traffic") that looks better on HD cable.

Those "pro" reviewers often have equipment worse than ours (like watching on a 720p display instead of a 1080p display) so I don't always trust them, much like movie reviews.

Did "SR" get the general consensus it looks great like "Pirates" or "Matrix"? No.

The point is MAYBE it looks better on HD cable. You are basing your information on something someone on a message board posted. You have no idea under what conditions those captures were made, or even if the person is telling the truth about the source material.

Doug
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#53 of 83 OFFLINE   Ed St. Clair

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Posted May 23 2007 - 12:26 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ReggieW
As far as it not looking better than the SD-DVD.....

Peter probably meant it as a joke (I think).

That would infer THX HAD a sense of humor! ;-)
When bashing HD DVD I've never seen it, nor when praising BD to the high heavens. Believe me, he REALLY believes the un-believable stuff he posts.

He actually posted you can't compare receivers from Onkyo & Sony!!! :-0
Because, the two companies are not involved completely in the same endeavors. Hence, he would probably not think it was allowed to compare Pioneer & Sony BD players, because Pioneer makes plasma & Sony makes LCD displays! ;-)

Peter has gotten this thread off-track again, starting w/the comment that HD DVD can't do lossless audio on a thread that's about how the HD DVD audio on a title is better than the BD version. And then, on & on & on...

My nonsense:
I'm still against the war, always have been, always will be. Just that it does get us high strung overly critical minute analyzing HT'ers, the chance to compare HD Disc releases. Which was a very good thing for exposing BD at first & keeping HD DVD on track as well.
However, its a mess when one HD Disc has better audio & one has better video, or features for that matter. And I'm not even saying that's happening here, w/this title.
Back on track:
I don't want HD Disc to have the same problem of SD DVD, like on a title such as "The Professional". Where one release has the best audio, another the best version (cut and/or video), and yet another w/the best features.
Was hoping HD Disc would be better than that!
I don't need/want two copies of "FoOF" on HD Disc, like I've had four SD DVD versions of "T2"!
And in closing:
Super glad people as paying attention though, to the difference between the two releases. Just, I don't think this discussion should allow for posters generally biased opinions on the two waring formats to interfere w/that discussion.
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#54 of 83 OFFLINE   PeterTHX

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Posted May 23 2007 - 12:35 PM

Any more personal attacks Ed?

#55 of 83 OFFLINE   PeterTHX

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Posted May 23 2007 - 12:55 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Douglas Monce
The point is MAYBE it looks better on HD cable. You are basing your information on something someone on a message board posted. You have no idea under what conditions those captures were made, or even if the person is telling the truth about the source material.

Doug

This is just one of many screenshots posted.
Posted Image

You think now it's "maybe" better?

#56 of 83 OFFLINE   Douglas Monce

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Posted May 23 2007 - 01:01 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterTHX
This is just one of many screenshots posted.
Posted Image

You think now it's "maybe" better?

I think that I have no idea where those screen shots came from or how they were obtained. Frankly they all look like someone too a picture of a screen with a digital camera which means they are useless! If this is the source of your information, then your conclusions are laughable at best.

Doug
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#57 of 83 OFFLINE   ppltd

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Posted May 23 2007 - 01:01 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterTHX
This is just one of many screenshots posted.

You think now it's "maybe" better?
This only proves that someone poster a picture and you believed it, nothing more, as you can not state how these shots were created. FUD of the worst type. BTW, as the image is supposed to be a news conference (no HD broadcast equipment used then) it would look standard res.

I guess it also proves the poster is pretty good with paint shop.
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#58 of 83 OFFLINE   Ed St. Clair

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Posted May 23 2007 - 01:06 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterTHX
Any more personal attacks Ed?
Not "you", your posts!
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterTHX
Sony isn't an audio company, I would argue they are a video driven company. You can't compare an Onkyo to a Sony. There are no Onkyo TVs. No Onkyo PlayStations, no Onkyo camcorders.
I mean, come on, how can you post that? Especially when someone was attempting to gain some real info from this site!
Or,
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterTHX
HD DVD doesn't have the bandwidth or the space to consistently provide lossless soundtracks.
posted on this thread. How does that explain to anybody why the HD DVD sounds better than the BD?

If your speaking of the "sense of humor" thing, I gave that a "wink".

If you can explain to me how your bashing of HD DVD in general terms has helped the understanding of the specific subject matter of this thread, that would be helpful indeed. Thanks.
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#59 of 83 OFFLINE   Douglas Monce

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Posted May 23 2007 - 01:14 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ppltd
This only proves that someone poster a picture and you belived it, nothing more, as you can not state how these shots were created. FUD of the worst type. BTW, as the image is supposed to be a news conference (no HD broadcast equipment used then) it would look standard res.

It's a screen shot from Traffic. But it looks to me like it was a shot of a TV screen with a digital camera. Not only that it looks like who ever took the pictures doesn't know how to use said digital camera as the color balance is not set to match the color temp of the screen. Hence Mr. Douglas looks like Violet in Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory.
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#60 of 83 OFFLINE   ppltd

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Posted May 23 2007 - 01:22 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Douglas Monce
It's a screen shot from Traffic. But it looks to me like it was a shot of a TV screen with a digital camera. Not only that it looks like who ever took the pictures doesn't know how to use said digital camera as the color balance is not set to match the color temp of the screen. Hence Mr. Douglas looks like Violet in Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory.
Posted Image
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