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#1 of 26 OFFLINE   Carl Miller

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Posted May 12 2007 - 11:25 AM

Anyone have a recommendation of a web creation program for Mac which has WYSWYG capability?

I can hard code moderately well but for several years I've only done so when I couldn't get Front Page to do what I wanted it to do, so I've become lazy.

Dreamweaver is way more than I need and too expensive. I didn't like GoLive years ago when I tried it. Sandvox http://www.karelia.com/ looks like it's not enough and while someone told me Coda http://www.panic.com/coda/ which is made by the makers of Transmit is WYSWYG capable, I'm just not coming off with that impression while looking at their site. Unless I'm missing something.
Carl

#2 of 26 OFFLINE   Ronald Epstein

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Posted May 12 2007 - 08:40 PM

I can do basic HTML, but have no idea what WYSWYG is. Please
explain.

I'm using the built-in iWeb these days which is extremely
easy to use, but a bit too basic. I tried DreamWeaver and
for the life of me could not figure it out.

I, too, am looking for a better webpage builder that has the
ease of dragging and dropping photos like iWeb but
with a lot more functions to play with that doesn't require some
sort of degree or advanced training from the Apple store to use.

Carl, I hope you find what you are seeking.

Ronald J Epstein
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#3 of 26 OFFLINE   Carl Miller

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Posted May 13 2007 - 04:21 AM

Ron, WYSWYG is what you see is what you get...in this case, designing/editing web pages visually, letting the software take care of the html and other coding for you. Dreamweaver and FrontPage are the two best known of these progams with Dreamweaver being more powerful, more expensive and more difficult to learn in my opinion.

So far, I'm not having much luck finding what I need. iWeb is not quite enough, Dreamweaver is way too much.
Carl

#4 of 26 OFFLINE   Ronald Epstein

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Posted May 13 2007 - 07:48 AM

Carl,

Keep us posted. I want the same software -- and you are right,
iWeb just scratches the surface. In fact, Front Page
was so much better - but I am not sure that on the PC I was just able
to drag and drop photos from the desktop into the HTML template.

Ronald J Epstein
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#5 of 26 ONLINE   DaveF

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Posted May 13 2007 - 09:18 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Miller
Ron, WYSWYG is what you see is what you get...
"WYSIWYG" is "what you is what you get", to be pedantic Posted Image

My wife uses iWeb; it's very nice in many ways but not for the more serious hobbyist. I've not looked too much but my impression is that Apple is lacking a decent mid-range web development program. But if something were available for Windows that was just right, you could Parallel it.

There are adequate freeware WYSIWYG-ish apps for Windows: PSPad and Nvu. because of their quirks, they're best used by someone that knows HTML and can clean up after them and work past their weaknesses.

Are there any decent HTML editors for the Mac? I used Homesite for a few years on the PC, and found it great. I's now rolled into Dreamweaver, so I don't know if it's available as a standalone anymore.

#6 of 26 OFFLINE   Oren

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Posted May 13 2007 - 05:33 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronald Epstein

I, too, am looking for a better webpage builder that has the
ease of dragging and dropping photos like iWeb but
with a lot more functions to play with that doesn't require some
sort of degree or advanced training from the Apple store to use.


How about Rapidweaver (3.5 mice, UK gave 4.5 mice, $39)? See http://www.macworld.....r321/index.php

Or Freeway 4 Pro (4.5 mice, $279) or Freeway 4 Express ($89, screencast demo video at http://www.softpress...ayexpressne.php, lower right corner)? See http://www.macworld.....4pro/index.php

and web publishing more generally, http://www.macworld..../webpublishing/.

#7 of 26 OFFLINE   Christ Reynolds

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Posted May 14 2007 - 05:34 AM

nvu is always great.

CJ
And then when I feel so stuffed I can't eat anymore, I just use the restroom! And then I CAN eat more!

#8 of 26 OFFLINE   Carl Miller

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Posted May 14 2007 - 11:25 AM

Dave, this one called TextMate looks pretty good for an html editor http://macromates.com/ and I think there is one called bbEdit or something like that which is supposed to be sort of the standard for Mac.

I looked at NVU a couple of days ago but wasn't sure if I could use it. In the FAQ section it says there is no version for an Intel based Mac. Seems to be that something called Kompozer should be used instead? I don't know. I planned on going back to that to read further.

Freeway Pro looks like it has some potential...

Thanks for the links..
Carl

#9 of 26 OFFLINE   Christ Reynolds

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Posted May 14 2007 - 11:29 AM

That means there is no Intel specific build. It runs using Rosetta. Nvu is running on my Intel Mac mini right now.

CJ
And then when I feel so stuffed I can't eat anymore, I just use the restroom! And then I CAN eat more!

#10 of 26 OFFLINE   Ronald Epstein

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Posted May 15 2007 - 02:09 AM

Christ,

Do you think NVU is the best web creation software
that surpassed in functionality over iWeb but isn't as
complicated as DreamWeaver?

I'm surprised to see it's a FREE program, and based on that
alone, the first thing that comes to mind is that you get nothing
of value for FREE.

Ronald J Epstein
Home Theater Forum co-owner

 

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#11 of 26 OFFLINE   Christ Reynolds

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Posted May 15 2007 - 08:24 PM

I think iWeb is great for beginners, but NVU is only a little more difficult to learn, but much more powerful. There's nothing packed with more features than Dreamweaver, but it's not worth the money imo. Many serious professionals code by hand anyway. I do as well, but I use NVU for its preview capabilities. There's no reason to pay for web creation software while NVU is around.

Quote:
I'm surprised to see it's a FREE program, and based on that
alone, the first thing that comes to mind is that you get nothing
of value for FREE.
It may seem free, but when you think of the thousands of hours graciously donated by software developers to develop applications such as NVU, Gimp, Openoffice.org, Firefox, Thunderbird, and so many others. All of these are very high quality, and don't "cost" you anything. Countless hours of free time were spent on these applications. We may not have paid anything, but someone certainly did.

CJ
And then when I feel so stuffed I can't eat anymore, I just use the restroom! And then I CAN eat more!

#12 of 26 ONLINE   DaveF

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Posted May 16 2007 - 01:33 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronald Epstein
Christ,
Do you think NVU is the best web creation software
that surpassed in functionality over iWeb but isn't as
complicated as DreamWeaver?
I used NVU for some quick web-design work last Spring (my online wedding announcement and RSVP form). I found it the best free WYSIWYG-ish web design program for the PC. The caveat being free: in absolute terms it's mediocre. I had to fall back on my knowledge of HTML to tweak its output and work around its limitations. But I've not used it since Spring '06, so maybe it's been improved since.

I found PSPad was a good complement, having different weaknesses than NVU.

Comparing my experience with NVU and PSPad to my wife's experience with iWeb, I estimate that iWeb is a superior tool for the hobbyist, at least one with a Mac.

#13 of 26 OFFLINE   Carl Miller

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Posted May 16 2007 - 02:21 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Christ Reynolds
That means there is no Intel specific build. It runs using Rosetta. Nvu is running on my Intel Mac mini right now.

CJ

Thanks Christ. I'm going to download it and the Dreamweaver trial and give them both a run...gonna start with Dreamweaver though because I've used it before and it might take less effort to get what I need done in the short term.

Dave? What's that "I" doing in WYSWYG? I refuse to use it.Posted Image
Carl

#14 of 26 OFFLINE   Ronald Epstein

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Posted May 16 2007 - 08:54 PM

Carl,

Please report back with your findings.

Ronald J Epstein
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#15 of 26 ONLINE   DaveF

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Posted May 17 2007 - 02:45 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Miller
Thanks Christ. I'm going to download it and the Dreamweaver trial and give them both a run...gonna start with Dreamweaver though because I've used it before and it might take less effort to get what I need done in the short term.

Dave? What's that "I" doing in WYSWYG? I refuse to use it.Posted Image
There's always been an "I". For the past 20 years, the "I" has been there. That's why it's pronounced "whizz-ee-wig"; yours is just "whizz-wig" or" what you see what you get" -- like a Russian speaking broken English is doing word processing. I'll even appeal to Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WYSIWYG . But you're welcome to your own opinion, even if it's wrong Posted Image

Let us know how Dreamweaver goes, and whether it's got an "I" or not Posted Image

#16 of 26 OFFLINE   Ronald Epstein

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Posted May 17 2007 - 04:15 AM

We lost our main hard drive on HTF about 3 years ago.

So much material was lost in that crash including photos
and coverage of past HTF meets/events. For us, the situation
was beyond heartbreaking.

Over the past few months, with the help of others, I have
been able to rescue many of the pictures off of that hard
drive.

My wish, is to put together a HUGE scrapbook of photos
to celebrate our 10th year.

I have hesitated to get started for two reasons. First, I don't
have the luxury of having Front Page, which was my
tool for doing these pages. I like iWeb, but I'm also
looking at how well NVU pans out for our members
here because DreamWeaver is waaaay to complicated.

Second, I am looking for the perfect template that I can't find.
I want a background that looks like an old scrapbook with photo
frames that I can simply drag photos into and then write a
description beneath it. Can't seem to find something like that
anywhere -- not even in the included iweb templates.

Ronald J Epstein
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#17 of 26 OFFLINE   Christ Reynolds

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Posted May 17 2007 - 05:49 PM

Quote:
DreamWeaver is waaaay to complicated
It's no more complicated than any other wysiwyg web program. Just put it in design mode, don't look at the code, and just make the webpage. If you can use FrontPage, Dreamweaver is no different. Just better.

CJ
And then when I feel so stuffed I can't eat anymore, I just use the restroom! And then I CAN eat more!

#18 of 26 OFFLINE   Oren

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Posted August 15 2007 - 03:10 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oren
How about Rapidweaver (3.5 mice, UK gave 4.5 mice, $39)? See http://www.macworld.....r321/index.php

Or Freeway 4 Pro (4.5 mice, $279) or Freeway 4 Express ($89, screencast demo video at http://www.softpress...ayexpressne.php, lower right corner)? See http://www.macworld.....4pro/index.php

and web publishing more generally, http://www.macworld..../webpublishing/.

Now that I want to go beyond the capabilities of iWeb, I took a closer look at Rapidweaver and Freeway.

Wow.

There really isn't anything as easy to use as iWeb. I really, really wish iWeb had more features (like multiple level topics, instead of the single level), better embedding of some stuff. 08 may address the embedding aspect, but I really wish it had multiple levels. What I mean is that I want a main page with Home, Options, and Contact Us pages, but then clicking on the Options page should have subcategories of Category 1, Category 2, Category 3, and clicking on one of those should result in further selections.

Unfortunately, iWeb only allows one "level." I need three.

"Real" web publishers allow for multiple levels, etc. but man, they're difficult to use. Posted Image

#19 of 26 OFFLINE   Ronald Epstein

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Posted August 15 2007 - 09:34 PM

Oren,

I have the newest version of RapidWeaver installed. It
was my hope that it would let me do more complex web pages than
iWeb, and based on the many reviews I read, the new version
is so simple that even a caveman could do it (with apologies to Geico).

Well, I gotta tell you, I sat there staring at RapidWeaver for
a good 30 minutes. Even after going through the instructions I could
not figure out how to put together a web page. It certainly was not as
simplistic as iWeb was.

I get a little tired of iWeb because I feel it is rather limited
in what it offers. All the web templates have the same look to them
even if they contain different themes. I haven't even touched the new
revised '08 version, so perhaps I'll be pleasantly surprised.

Ronald J Epstein
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#20 of 26 OFFLINE   Aaron Reynolds

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Posted August 16 2007 - 12:35 AM

I don't have any time to look at it right now, but I'll be giving Freeway Pro a test drive in the next few weeks.


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