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Amazed at the bitterness...


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#1 of 39 OFFLINE   todd s

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Posted May 09 2007 - 06:01 AM

I am still on the fence with regards to what HD format I should go with. But, reading posts here and over at the AVS forum. I am amazed at the bitter, nasty comments from both sides. Its one thing to talk about the benefits of one format over the other. But, some of the comments are just ridiculous.
You would think these posters are being personally insulted.
But, like I said in another thread. I blame the studios for this war. They should have come down to one format. I know I have stopped buying regular dvd's (except kids movies and tv shows). I don't want to have to double dip to whatever hd format I end up with.
Bring back John Doe! Or at least resolve the cliff-hanger with a 2hr movie or as an extra on a dvd release.

#2 of 39 OFFLINE   London Lawson

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Posted May 09 2007 - 06:04 AM

I think it's funny seeing people get so worked up over a piece of electronics, it provides many laughs for me reading people and their silly e-battles.

#3 of 39 OFFLINE   Robert Crawford

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Posted May 09 2007 - 06:04 AM

I would hope that the civility over here is much better than at AVS? IMO, I think the posting environment on the HTF regarding the fandom of either format has become much better than what it was a year ago.





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#4 of 39 OFFLINE   todd s

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Posted May 09 2007 - 06:23 AM

I just read a post over at the AVS. An HD-DVD supporter was all giddy that Spidey 3 is getting bad reviews...Since it will hurt possible BD sales when it comes out. Posted Image
Bring back John Doe! Or at least resolve the cliff-hanger with a 2hr movie or as an extra on a dvd release.

#5 of 39 OFFLINE   London Lawson

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Posted May 09 2007 - 06:32 AM

Wow that is sad, are these TOOLS not real movie fans? Obviously not.

#6 of 39 OFFLINE   Paul Arnette

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Posted May 09 2007 - 06:41 AM

Quote:
I would hope that the civility over here is much better than at AVS?

Robert,

On the whole, I would agree, but I've seen shades of AVS creep over here from time to time.

I've just about lost all interest in having anything that could even begin to be called a rational discussion about this format war on the Internet.

The only thing that truly keeps me from enjoying HD on optical disc at the moment is that worry in the back of my head that I may have leaned toward the wrong side, and/or I may have to rebuy movies on the 'winning' format. However, I'm starting to feel like it might be money well spent just to get out of this 'environment' all together.

I miss the days where I was discovering new movies on the Internet and learing about technology instead of just bickering about it.
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#7 of 39 OFFLINE   Jefferson Morris

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Posted May 09 2007 - 06:50 AM

The format war really doesn't bother me all that terribly, to be honest, except for the fact that some companies (New Line, you bastards!) are dragging their feet releasing product (Lord of the Rings, you bastards!). I'm lucky enough to be able to play either format (via Xbox 360 add-on and PS3).

I have a bit of a soft spot for HD-DVD, being something of an underdog out of the gate and having delivered cheaper software and cheaper players. But Microsoft's failure to provide an HDMI output for their original Xbox 360s (I ain't buying a whole new 360 Elite when I should have just been able to buy a damn HDMI cable) is now pushing me toward Blu-Ray via my PS3.

But in the end, I don't care all that terribly who wins. I suspect that high-def discs will never get beyond a niche product before direct download models take over some number of years from now, but at least we aren't stuck with laserdisc pricing in the meantime. I'm enjoying the trickle of worthwhile hi-def releases for now.

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#8 of 39 OFFLINE   TravisR

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Posted May 09 2007 - 08:27 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by todd s
I am amazed at the bitter, nasty comments from both sides.
You're amazed by bitterness and nastiness on the internet? Posted Image

Like Robert said though, I think- and am very happy- that HTF has calmed down in recent months. You still see some people that have keep it up but the real vicious and seemingly endless debate has died down.

EDIT: As for Spider-Man 3's negative reviews hurting its sales, I don't think it'll have much impact. I fully expect to see posts say they didn't like Spider-Man 3 or heard it was bad but they'll get it for demo material anyway.

#9 of 39 OFFLINE   Robert Crawford

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Posted May 09 2007 - 09:19 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Arnette
Robert,

On the whole, I would agree, but I've seen shades of AVS creep over here from time to time.

I've just about lost all interest in having anything that could even begin to be called a rational discussion about this format war on the Internet.

The only thing that truly keeps me from enjoying HD on optical disc at the moment is that worry in the back of my head that I may have leaned toward the wrong side, and/or I may have to rebuy movies on the 'winning' format. However, I'm starting to feel like it might be money well spent just to get out of this 'environment' all together.

I miss the days where I was discovering new movies on the Internet and learing about technology instead of just bickering about it.
Paul,
You're going to have some bickering from time to time because proponents of both formats are very passionate about their position. However, I think the daily back and forth that was prevalent a year ago has dissipated over the last 12 months. The HTF Moderator Staff has tried to provide a posting environment in which members can engage in discussion regarding this format war without the hostility that was present here in the past. Hopefully, this trend will continue and if not then other means will be implemented to rectify the situation.





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#10 of 39 OFFLINE   ppltd

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Posted May 09 2007 - 09:36 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by TravisR
EDIT: As for Spider-Man 3's negative reviews hurting its sales, I don't think it'll have much impact. I fully expect to see posts say they didn't like Spider-Man 3 or heard it was bad but they'll get it for demo material anyway.
Some of my favorite films are movies that were trashed by the critics. If I recall, Night at the Museum did not get great reviews, but did exceptionally well in the box office and video sales.
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#11 of 39 OFFLINE   Chris S

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Posted May 09 2007 - 03:30 PM

Not trying to brown nose here but a lot of credit goes to the HTF Mods for keeping civility on these boards. There has been many times when things could have easily degraded into the typical name calling, mud slinging AVS thread, but thankfully Cees, Crawdaddy, and the rest of the team do a good job at keeping the conversations heated but civil.
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#12 of 39 OFFLINE   Tim Glover

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Posted May 09 2007 - 04:46 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris S
Not trying to brown nose here but a lot of credit goes to the HTF Mods for keeping civility on these boards. There has been many times when things could have easily degraded into the typical name calling, mud slinging AVS thread, but thankfully Cees, Crawdaddy, and the rest of the team do a good job at keeping the conversations heated but civil.

Absolutely. Mods here do a spendid job and seem to know when members cross the line or and are keen in spotting those who are trying to look neutral but are rather heavily agended. (is that a word Posted Image).

I've said it before that AVS is great for good tweaking threads on gear etc...but it also has the most childish atmosphere. Thank God HTF is NOT like that.

The difference: Most here on the HTF are here first because of our love for film in general. It seems at AVS that is a distant second.

#13 of 39 OFFLINE   Lou Sytsma

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Posted May 09 2007 - 11:04 PM

Agreed on the job the mods have done. I made my choice with which HD format I am going with based on price and ability to coexist with my current HT setup without any upgrades. Do I think that format will eventually prevail? I honestly have no idea and given my track record - I chose BetaPosted Image - probably not.

As to which format will win, it doesn't matter to me. HT is a hobby not a religion.
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#14 of 39 OFFLINE   Robert George

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Posted May 10 2007 - 12:51 AM

Having been hip deep in some of the "discussions" on AVS, I can offer at least my perspective.

There are obvious points that can be debated. Both formats have advantages and disadvantages, otherwise, we would only have one format. The problem is not the formats, but some of the people. For too many people this is not about movies, or even technology, it is about being right and proving the other guy wrong.

A benign example of how people are approaching this the wrong way is a reference made in a post above about "leaning to the wrong side". A innocent enough comment, except there really is no "wrong" side. At worst, there will be a format that will no longer be used before the other one. That does not render the movies or players in that format inoperable.

Quite a few people spent quite a bit of money on D-VHS decks and tapes before that went away, and with fewer than 200 total tapes released, and not from all studios. Both Blu-ray and HD DVD will far, far exceed D-Theater before this is done. All those movie will be available to fans in beautiful HD for a long time.

I have felt for a long time that the people that have to be confrontational and combative over this so-called format war are not really movie fans. They are just immature people that are consumed with the desire to be "right". To them, it is a competition, and any competition can bring out the worst in some people (try a little league game sometime). I hate the term "fanboy", but unfortunately, it fits all too often. If some of these "Fanboys" spent as much energy on the actual hobby of collecting and enjoying movies, they might just see that the real "enemy" in this "war" is the companies that are trying to get as much of our money as they can, not the other guy out there just trying to enjoy movies in HD.

#15 of 39 OFFLINE   Jack Gilvey

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Posted May 10 2007 - 12:54 AM

If registering needed a verifiable real name...most of these twits would just fade away. Brave types in front of a monitor.

And can you imagine how empty a life is if something so silly looms so large?
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#16 of 39 OFFLINE   Jonathan Kaye

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Posted May 10 2007 - 02:36 AM

The saddest thing about the fanboy-ism is that it draws attention from the true battle, which is making sure that studios deliver a quality product at a reasonable price (for them as well as us). As a community we should be shouting louder than anything else that our high-definition future should be region-free (a ridiculous archaic leftover of shipping film prints overseas), with lossless sound (when I finally get into high-def purchasing, no lossless sound = no sale) and a good quality transfer, with at least the extras that accompany/accompanied the DVD release.

Unfortunately, the loudest voices are of the "my format's better than yours" variety.Posted Image
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#17 of 39 OFFLINE   Lou Sytsma

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Posted May 10 2007 - 04:19 AM

Quote:
I have felt for a long time that the people that have to be confrontational and combative over this so-called format war are not really movie fans. They are just immature people that are consumed with the desire to be "right". To them, it is a competition, and any competition can bring out the worst in some people (try a little league game sometime).

My feelings exactly Obi.
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#18 of 39 OFFLINE   Nick Laslett

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Posted May 10 2007 - 04:29 AM

The difference is people hear love movies, people at AVS love technology.

The HTF mod team have done a great job.

Robert Harris' even handed comments on both formats has helped to.

Warners & Paramount being neutral just about makes the whole thing moot.

It would have been great for there to be just one format like DVD, but that is just not going to happen now. HD-DVD had a brillant start, Blu-Ray dropped the ball, mistake after mistake.

Universal have been troopers releasing nearly everything they have in the space of 12 months. Fox & Disney have been next to useless as BR exclusive studios. Even Sony scored a few own goal with stuff like the duff The Fifth Element transfer.

Warners have saved the day for everybody, take them out of the HD space and there is nothing really left to see.

I've always been an ardent Blu-Ray supporter, but all I really want is good content.

The waiting...

#19 of 39 OFFLINE   Edwin-S

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Posted May 10 2007 - 08:14 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Laslett

I've always been an ardent Blu-Ray supporter, but all I really want is good content.

I find this line a little hard to believe when some of your other comments are taken into account.

HD DVD's start up was brilliant?! Is there some kind of historical revision happening? I remember plenty of posts about discs freezing up or stuttering. There were threads rife with complaints about loading times and HDMI issues. Several HD DVD releases were criticized for quality issues. HD DVD's startup was not particularly brilliant nor flawless.

BD was lambasted for the iffy quality of some of the releases, but I didn't read nearly as main complaints about discs not working. Neither of these formats had very brilliant launches. Both have had their share of start up problems, and both sides have attempted to correct problems or issues that have cropped with their respective formats.
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#20 of 39 OFFLINE   Terrence B

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Posted May 10 2007 - 08:22 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Laslett
It would have been great for there to be just one format like DVD, but that is just not going to happen now. HD-DVD had a brillant start, Blu-Ray dropped the ball, mistake after mistake.

Rather than focusing on the bad of one side(where these stupid battles always begin with), I think BOTH formats have dropped the ball at one time or another. I think Toshiba support of Gen 1 players has been pitiful, to the point that many just use it as a secondary player, and have purchased the A2 for everyday use. And most Blu-ray players out now cannot do all of the interactive features the format claims it can do. Second gen HD DVD players have lip syc issues, all players start the movie over when you switch to another input. Good, but not perfect.

Quote:
Universal have been troopers releasing nearly everything they have in the space of 12 months. Fox & Disney have been next to useless as BR exclusive studios. Even Sony scored a few own goal with stuff like the duff The Fifth Element transfer.

Universal has been releasing alot, but not quality stuff and their market share amoung HD DVD studios shows it. They are an exclusive to HD DVD, and a neutral studio has a larger share of the HD DVD market than it has. I would take a exception to you saying that Disney is next to useless. Disney has not released a ton of movies, but the ones they have come with excellent PQ and AQ. I would rather have fewer releases of much higher quality, than a ton of mediocre releases.

Quote:
Warners have saved the day for everybody, take them out of the HD space and there is nothing really left to see.

This may apply to HD DVD(and I agree with you) but not to blu-ray where they have constantly offered seperate, but not equal releases.

Quote:
I've always been an ardent Blu-Ray supporter, but all I really want is good content.

The waiting...

You and me both LOL


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