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Hackers posted AACS Key for copying all current HD-DVD titles


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#1 of 26 OFFLINE   Paul Hillenbrand

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Posted May 03 2007 - 08:08 AM

Quoting the Digital Bits:
Quote:
Hackers apparently posted stories in which they revealed the 16-digit HD-DVD AACS Processing Key, that unlocks all current HD-DVD software titles to potential copying.

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#2 of 26 OFFLINE   ppltd

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Posted May 03 2007 - 08:26 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Hillenbrand
Quoting the Digital Bits:
Link
I have read no less than 7 reports on this issue and the ones that speak to the format state HD DVD as a generic for HD and BD disks. What I would like to know is if this is related to a single format or to both. I would post a link to the many reports, but gezz, they are all over the web now.

As far as the Digital Bits reporting, well, I will take that with a grain of salt.
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#3 of 26 OFFLINE   Sam Davatchi

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Posted May 03 2007 - 10:50 AM

This is ooooooooooooold news! I mean like really old!

#4 of 26 OFFLINE   Cees Alons

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Posted May 03 2007 - 11:26 PM

That was in March, wasn't it?

New AACS keys are already in place. Are we going to hear the same story every three months?
I'm not sure why Bill posted that now. Perhaps to comment on the lawyers-thing?


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#5 of 26 OFFLINE   JeremyErwin

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Posted May 04 2007 - 07:10 AM

It appears that the implementation of AACS was a bit sloppy.

Quote:
The licensed replicator shall also assign a secret unpredictable (e.g. random) identifier to the protected title or set of protected titles to be included together on a pre-recorded medium. This identifier, referred to as the Volume Identifier, is used as a safeguard against "bit for bit" copying of protected titles and is therefore stored on the prerecorded medium in a manner that cannot be duplicated by consumer recorders as specified for each supported storage format elsewhere in the specification. At the licensed replicators discretion, the same volume identifier may be used for all instances of pre recorded media containing a given protected title or set of protected titles, or different values may be assigned for different instances.

Advanced Access Content System: Technical Overview.

The VolumeID for this post is 050920071510...

#6 of 26 OFFLINE   Jean D

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Posted May 04 2007 - 07:25 AM

I think he posted it because its been in the news. Digg had a story printed posting the code, but they took it down after cease and desist letters came in, then their users complained heavily, and the owners of digg put the story back up.

News article from Wired.
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#7 of 26 OFFLINE   Cees Alons

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Posted May 04 2007 - 07:29 AM

What I called "the lawyers-thing".
Could be the reason to post about it there.

Did you notice how Digg got "brave" and posted it again - after the new AACS keys were in place?


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#8 of 26 OFFLINE   Jean D

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Posted May 04 2007 - 07:31 AM

as far as I knew, it was the very next day.
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#9 of 26 OFFLINE   John Berggren

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Posted May 04 2007 - 12:14 PM

Although my preference for HD or Blu is fairly well known hereabouts, I have a far more generic comment on this one.
Hacking is stupid. Piracy is way stupid. Between rental and priced to own, there is no media that isn't priced within the means of anyone to enjoy. Piracy and hacking only makes studios less likely to provide the product at all. It's what will more likely push us to all broadband DRM.
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#10 of 26 OFFLINE   JeremyErwin

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Posted May 04 2007 - 03:09 PM

I think you misunderstand the hacker ethic. When a hacker encounters a technical problem, he doesn't give up in frustration. He writes code around it. And, technical problems can come in a variety of forms. When I was learning various linux sound related APIs, I came across an active project to correct rooms.

The consumer response to an imperfect acoustic environment is to get a receiver with Audyssey. The hacker response is to program his own, tweaking the sound to perfection. The consumer response to a buggy driver is to replace the product, or download yet another bugfix. The hacker's response is to reprogram the driver.

Sure, not everyone has to expertise to compete with highly paid professional engineers. But some enjoy the challenge.

So some of the people who are working on cracking AACS would like to supplant an easily scratched HDDVD with a (temporary) copy on the hard drive. Or perhaps they use DVI monitors without HDCP. Or perhaps they simply enjoy the challenge.

The trouble with DRM and locked systems is that you can no longer fix things yourself. You have to rely on the generosity of an authorized agent.

#11 of 26 OFFLINE   John Berggren

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Posted May 04 2007 - 08:23 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeremyErwin
I think you misunderstand the hacker ethic. When a hacker encounters a technical problem, he doesn't give up in frustration. He writes code around it. And, technical problems can come in a variety of forms. When I was learning various linux sound related APIs, I came across an active project to correct rooms.

The consumer response to an imperfect acoustic environment is to get a receiver with Audyssey. The hacker response is to program his own, tweaking the sound to perfection. The consumer response to a buggy driver is to replace the product, or download yet another bugfix. The hacker's response is to reprogram the driver.

Sure, not everyone has to expertise to compete with highly paid professional engineers. But some enjoy the challenge.

So some of the people who are working on cracking AACS would like to supplant an easily scratched HDDVD with a (temporary) copy on the hard drive. Or perhaps they use DVI monitors without HDCP. Or perhaps they simply enjoy the challenge.

The trouble with DRM and locked systems is that you can no longer fix things yourself. You have to rely on the generosity of an authorized agent.

I don't misunderstand in the slightest, but by hacking, they are bring DRM down in further force. Surely that's an easy connection to make.
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#12 of 26 OFFLINE   ChristopherDAC

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Posted May 05 2007 - 04:32 AM

Quote:
I don't misunderstand in the slightest, but by hacking, they are bring DRM down in further force. Surely that's an easy connection to make.
Not so ; if anything, to the contrary.

"DRM" and its allied techniques are intended to control the behaviour of the end-user, in order to make the publisher more money. Was Disney responding to the problem of videotape piracy when it issued VHS cassettes containing a mechanical counter and a little razor blade, designed to cut the tape after a certain number of viewings? Of course not. The purpose was to force parents to buy new copies of The Little Mermaid. Was Divx a response to the problem of DVD rips? Obviously not. DVD-to-DVD copying didn't exist at that time.

The existence of hackers tends to make the entertainment publishers more circumspect about what measures they employ, because they know that if they create too much of an incentive, the hackers will circumvent whatever it is. An obvious example is CSS on DVD — libdvddecss or its equivalent is ubiquitous now, all because a kid was trying to use a DVD-ROM drive to play DVDs on his Linux box, which wouldn't run the licensed player applications.

#13 of 26 OFFLINE   Edwin-S

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Posted May 05 2007 - 04:54 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristopherDAC
Not so ; if anything, to the contrary.

"DRM" and its allied techniques are intended to control the behaviour of the end-user, in order to make the publisher more money. Was Disney responding to the problem of videotape piracy when it issued VHS cassettes containing a mechanical countee and a little razor blade, designed to cut the tape after a certain number of viewings? Of course not. The purpose was to force parents to buy new copies of The Little Mermaid. Was Divx a response to the problem of DVD rips? Obviously not. DVD-to-DVD copying didn't exist at that time.

The existence of hackers tends to make the entertainment publishers more circumspect about what measures they employ, because they know that if they create too much of an incentive, the hackers will circumvent whatever it is. An obvious example is CSS on DVD — libdvddecss or its equivalent is ubiquitous now, all because a kid was trying to use a DVD-ROM drive to play DVDs on his Linux box, which wouldn't run the licensed player applications.

Well, I agree with your assessment of the reasoning behind DRM, but it doesn't obviate the fact that publishers continually try to come up with more and more complex DRM schemes in their attempts to defeat hackers.

You are right, though. Studios would still employ DRM even if hackers disappeared en masse.
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#14 of 26 OFFLINE   John Berggren

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Posted May 05 2007 - 06:28 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Edwin-S
Well, I agree with your assessment of the reasoning behind DRM, but it doesn't obviate the fact that publishers continually try to come up with more and more complex DRM schemes in their attempts to defeat hackers.

You are right, though. Studios would still employ DRM even if hackers disappeared en masse.

Perhaps. But studios seem less and less likely to release their product on hi def optical media specifically BECAUSE of hackers. Considering that a blu ray release of a high profile film such as Pirates of the Caribbean is $34.95 MSRP, $23.95 at Amazon, and nigh indestructible, what PRAY TELL is a NEED for pirating this title?
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#15 of 26 OFFLINE   Norman Matthews

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Posted May 05 2007 - 09:50 AM

It presumably stems from the same place as the need to climb Mount Everest. It's not the movie; it's the challenge.

#16 of 26 OFFLINE   Vern Dias

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Posted May 05 2007 - 10:12 AM

Quote:
what PRAY TELL is a NEED for pirating this title?
You might feel a little differently if your recently purchased digital display didn't have HDCP or had a buggy implementation of HDCP.... Or you had just spent $300.00 for a supposed HDCP compliant video card that refuses to deliver an image to your supposedly HDCP compliant display......

Unfortunately, HDCP is far from ready from prime time and many people are dependent on AnyDVD-HD, a product that is a direct result of the effort to break AACS to even be able to view HD DVD and BD at all.

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#17 of 26 OFFLINE   ChristopherDAC

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Posted May 05 2007 - 03:32 PM

Quote:
But studios seem less and less likely to release their product on hi def optical media specifically BECAUSE of hackers.
In my opinion, it makes them less likely to release in a competing format, i.e. direct downloads. Since an extra step is necessary to convert physical media to data files, a step most people aren't prepared to take, the discs themselves represent a safety measure for them.

In other words, while the entertainment companies may be chary about releasing HD video into the marketplace because of black distribution, they've been pushing it as the new thing, and so they're going to do it in the way that gives them the most insulation. Consequently the prophesied "death of physical media" is a longer way away, which I regard as a positive development : the pace of HD disc releases may be slowed, but they will keep coming out. Just my prediction, but there you are.

#18 of 26 OFFLINE   Matt Leigh

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Posted May 06 2007 - 06:28 AM

I wish the Digital Bits would simply not cover HD-DVD at all. They make no secret that they hate the format so why do they pay any attention to it at all? I used to frequent that site all the time and now since they are playing favorites I never even bother to go anymore.

#19 of 26 OFFLINE   Edwin-S

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Posted May 06 2007 - 12:33 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Leigh
I wish the Digital Bits would simply not cover HD-DVD at all. They make no secret that they hate the format so why do they pay any attention to it at all? I used to frequent that site all the time and now since they are playing favorites I never even bother to go anymore.


How does a story about hackers posting AACS keys equate to hating the HD DVD format? The keys could easily be used to copy Blu-ray discs as well, since both formats use AACS in common. Honestly! The owner of that site posted his concerns about the viability of BD when Blu-ray was having difficulty getting off the ground. Does that mean he hated Blu-ray at that point in time?
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#20 of 26 OFFLINE   Cees Alons

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Posted May 06 2007 - 07:15 PM

I wonder if this really was the work of a "hacker" (whatever might make you that) and not just someone in the know, leaking the information. It could be a disgruntled fired person. Or someone irresponsibly careless, or even a commercial spy, or else an employee "showing off" at the wrong place, or just a bastard, or ... almost anything.

Cryptography based on a "secret" is a very bad way to use widely-spread and repetitively - especially in the computer and internet age.


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