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first titles from SONY with PCM and DolbyTrueHD


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21 replies to this topic

#1 of 22 OFFLINE   MarekM

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Posted April 23 2007 - 09:03 AM

http://www.dvdtimes....contentid=64577

Ghost Rider
English PCM 5.1 Surround
English Dolby True HD 5.1 Surround

http://www.dvdtimes....contentid=64406

Stomp the Yard
English PCM 5.1 Surround
English Dolby True HD 5.1



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#2 of 22 OFFLINE   Harminder

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Posted April 23 2007 - 09:48 AM

I hope this is a continuing trend. I have a Sony BDP-S1 that doesn't decode TrueHD (hopefully it will in the future with a firmware upgrade), so still having a PCM audio track is awesome!

#3 of 22 OFFLINE   Jack Gilvey

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Posted April 23 2007 - 09:56 AM

Why do they include both?
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#4 of 22 OFFLINE   Shane Martin

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Posted April 23 2007 - 10:17 AM

I know it was mentioned elsewhere that Paidgeek(the sony guru at AVS) mentioned that when they feel there is enough market saturation for True HD equipment, they would phase out pcm for the software perspective. I wonder if this is the first step.

#5 of 22 OFFLINE   Neil Joseph

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Posted April 24 2007 - 02:58 AM

Now that I can play both, I look forward to doing indepth comparisons between the two and see if I can hear differences, at least for my setup.
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#6 of 22 OFFLINE   Dave_P.

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Posted April 24 2007 - 04:47 AM

Looking forward to testing out my Panny's new TruHD capabilities with Ghost Rider.

#7 of 22 OFFLINE   Rob Young

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Posted April 24 2007 - 05:33 AM

Prolly have both so they can spout off how they are filling up the BD50s and how 50 GB capacity is sooooooooooo needed.Posted Image

#8 of 22 OFFLINE   DaViD Boulet

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Posted April 24 2007 - 06:58 AM

The Sony rep responsible for this decision contacted me to explain. This is NOT rumor. This is direct-information from the source. He stated that for a few early BD releases with Dolby TrueHD from Sony Studios, he wanted to have both PCM and True HD included so that enthusiasts could have the rare opportunity to compare them. Note that Sony is the *ONLY* studio at present also committed to defeating dialog-normalization on their Dolby TrueHD tracks, which means that their BD titles will be the ONLY Dolby TrueHD discs on any format that actually provide BIT-FOR-BIT lossless data output from the decoding chip (dialog normalization forces the entire waveform to be digitally recalculated to change level, which negates bit-for-bit accuracy the way that scaling a video signal negates 1:1 mapping from source to display). In the case of the forth-coming Fifth Element Blu-ray (the remastered version on its way!!!), the legacy PCM master was 16-bit resolution. So theoretically both the Dolby TrueHD and the 16-bit PCM track should yeild a bit-for-bit identical result prior to d/a conversion. It's possible that sonic differences might still be detectable due to jitter (analog time-clock variances) which tend to affect PCM streams more so than "packed" or compressed streams which get buffered to a larger degree (comments about jitter are my own, not his). In any case, that was the rationale he gave: to give consumers a chance to compare. Pretty cool I think. He indicated that this would only be provided for a few early BD titles. Presumably, once Dolby TrueHD decoding gets more widespread in BD hardware and receivers (my guess as to the reason why) Sony won't provide "duplicate" lossless tracks this way.
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#9 of 22 OFFLINE   DaViD Boulet

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Posted April 24 2007 - 12:47 PM

I'm assuming it's ok to cross-posts from AVS and HTF.

Here's a thread about the 5E re-release for those interested:

http://www.avsforum....ad.php?t=830379
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#10 of 22 OFFLINE   MarekM

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Posted April 24 2007 - 11:24 PM


yeah, I can't wait to have this new release of 5E Posted Image

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#11 of 22 OFFLINE   DanR

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Posted April 25 2007 - 12:25 PM

Only if you want to degrade the level of conversation over here too. Posted Image

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#12 of 22 OFFLINE   Donnie Eldridge

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Posted April 25 2007 - 04:30 PM

The dialog normalization issue is huge!!!

Thank you Sony for listening. Posted Image
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Caine: I hear the water. I hear the birds.
Master Poe: Do you hear your own heart beat.
Caine: No.
Master Poe: Do you hear the grasshopper, which is at your feet.Caine: Old man, how is it that you hear these things?Master Poe: Young man, how is it...

#13 of 22 OFFLINE   Edwin-S

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Posted April 25 2007 - 09:24 PM

I read that AVS thread. It figures that someone would complain about including PCM and TrueHD on the same disc. I, for one, wouldn't have a problem with the practice. It allows people, with the capability, to compare the tracks for differences. It is going to be a bit of a piss off when the PCM track is dropped after a full transition to TrueHD. I won't be able to take advantage of the TrueHD track since my receiver is not equipped with HDMI and I do not forsee replacing it any time soon. At least with the PCM track I could listen in two channel mode. The PCM track sounds fuller than the DD track, even with only two channels.
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#14 of 22 OFFLINE   DaViD Boulet

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Posted April 26 2007 - 12:35 AM

Edwin, which BD player do you have? Can it decode TrueHD or be upgraded to do so? In theory... one should be able to *first* decode TrueHD to 5.1 PCM and *then* have the player downfold to 2.0 for SPDIF output to a conventional receiver like yours (and mine). I don't think my PS3 will downfold after conversion, but that's a limitation of its firmware (which could be possibly updated).
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#15 of 22 OFFLINE   Edwin-S

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Posted April 26 2007 - 01:51 AM

I'm using a PS3 as a player, same as you.
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#16 of 22 OFFLINE   Shane Martin

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Posted April 26 2007 - 10:49 AM

I have no problem with both in fact I would encourage it because it gives both stand alone owners and PS3 owners the goods. Otherwise like Iwo Jima, only PS3 owners and Panasonic owners can take advantage of lossless.

#17 of 22 OFFLINE   BrettB

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Posted May 07 2007 - 04:17 AM

Can't remember if this had been confirmed but it looks like they're both 16-bit and Bracke calls it a wash.

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#18 of 22 OFFLINE   Shane Martin

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Posted May 07 2007 - 01:48 PM

Which essentially means that bit eating PCM isn't necessary which in turn means the extra space isn't necessary. As someone said why use a 5 gallon bucket when a 3 gallon one will do?

#19 of 22 OFFLINE   Edwin-S

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Posted May 07 2007 - 01:56 PM

Maybe because sooner or later the three gallon bucket might be filled to overflowing, leaving one wishing that they had had the original five gallon bucket to begin with. I would rather have plenty of space and not need it than need it and not have it.
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#20 of 22 OFFLINE   DaViD Boulet

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Posted May 08 2007 - 12:46 AM

Without debating particular titles (many titles could be released on 25/30 GB just fine), it should be obvious to any HT enthusiast familiar with the evolution of DVD that, sooner or later, increased GB will be of good use... even with advanced audio and video codecs. The move from PCM to TrueHD in itself does not save enough space to drop one from 50 to 25 GB anyway. One can fit about two TrueHD streams in the same space as a single PCM stream... it's just about a 50% savings in space/bandwidth (or you can go 24 bit using the same space of a 16-bit PCM stream).
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