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Best built-in video processing


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6 replies to this topic

#1 of 7 OFFLINE   Kieran Coghlan

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Posted April 12 2007 - 08:47 AM

So, over the next 6 months or so, I *might* be in a position to purchase a new HDTV. I'll be looking at screens in the 47 to 56" range, under $2k. I'm of the opinion that video processing is one of, if not THE most important part of an HDTV. From PC, to DVD, to game machine, to HD-DBS, to OTA HD, to analog TV, to media streamer, to home camcorder... there is a plethora of devices and resolutions to feed a new TV, and scaling all those images to the native resolution of the TV is probably (IMO) the single most important step in getting a good picture. That said, I can't afford an external scaler like a DVD-O. Heck, not even sure if I'll be able to afford the TV! :-) So, I am curious (and thought maybe others are too) what people think of the built-in video processing abilities of various TVs out there? Do you actually test your TVs using an HQV test disc or the like? What has your experience been? Maybe we could get some suggestions about how to go about evaluating TVs in this regard? Which aspects of video processing are going to be the most important to watch out for, and how can we look for them (what artifacts to look for, etc.?) Are there any movie DVDs people might have in their collections they could use to test for things, if they don't have or can't find something like an HQV disc? If a TV can de-interlace 480i source material (say from a standard DVD) well, does that necessarily mean it will de-interlace 1080i material well? Off the top of my head: #1 - Deinterlacing. Whether it is from 480i to 480p or 1080i to 1080p, this is VERY important. video/motion adaptive, film-based, 3/2, 2/2, and other cadences... -1.a) corollary - the next obvious step is scaling of a deinterlaced 480p image to 720p or 1080p... #2 - Scaling (separate from de-interlacing?) e.g. 720p to 1080p. #3 - ?? not sure what else to look for... I'm looking for comments on specific TV's from people who own them, or tried them out while shopping, etc., with maybe a summary of what to look for and how to look for it. Since most of today's modern video sources can provide a scaled picture (e.g. upconverting dvd players like Oppo, etc.) I think maybe the most important capability of the tv's processor is how it handles things like analog cable stations, or OTA 720p to 1080p upconversion, etc., and maybe most importantly, 1080i to 1080p de-interlacing capabilities. What do you think?
-Kieran

#2 of 7 OFFLINE   Gregg Loewen

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Posted April 12 2007 - 10:56 AM

er....Kieran it is the least important consider black level first

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#3 of 7 OFFLINE   Kieran Coghlan

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Posted April 12 2007 - 01:22 PM

Gregg, I did say that "I'm of the opinion that..." So, to *ME* video processing is *ONE OF* the most important things in getting a good picture. I can not afford a good external processor, so I'd like people's opinion on what sets have good processing. I don't care how good the black level is, if there are interlacing artifacts, or scaling artifacts visible, the picture is ruined, IMO. If you have no opinion on video processing abilities of various sets out there, then don't reply. If you DO have some thoughts on the matter, I'd love to hear them. There are plenty of discussions about black level, color fidelity, gray scale, etc. I'd like to hear some thoughts on processing, specifically de-interlacing abilities and scaling abilities. I think some sets that are highly touted for their native mode beauty, are pretty crappy at processing and scaling non-native material.
-Kieran

#4 of 7 OFFLINE   Kieran Coghlan

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Posted April 23 2007 - 04:16 AM

Here's a perfect example of what I'm talking about... a recent review from Ultimate AV of the Mitsubishi WD65831:
http://ultimateavmag....31/index1.html

To me, I would NEVER buy this set based on these findings. I watch too much 480i material (DVDs and std. cable TV).

I think internal video processing is very important, and I would think people who consider themselves "videophiles" would rank it at least as important as black level. Personally, I find processing artifacts more distracting than poor black levels.
-Kieran

#5 of 7 OFFLINE   Allan Jayne

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Posted April 24 2007 - 06:00 AM

I don't have any sets in mind to buy but I will say that today, 480i de-interlacing and 1080i de-interlacing are done in side by side circuits, that is, if one is good it does not mean the other is good. Fewer than 5% of the HDTV TV's currently being sold do good 1080i to 1080p or 1080i to 720p.

After 480i is de-interlaced, scaling to 720p, 1080p, or even 1080i (540p) is fairly straightforward taking frames one at a time. No additional artifacts other than coarser than expected diagonals from the less sophisticated scalers will appear. Scaling inside the TV is never done to 1080i except for CRT TV's whose native scan rate is 1080i. So a TV with both 1080i and 480i deinterlacing will never have both going at the same time.

Video hints: http://members.aol.c...ejr/hdtvnot.htm
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#6 of 7 OFFLINE   Kieran Coghlan

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Posted April 24 2007 - 09:17 AM


Have you read this article?
http://www.hometheat....07-part-1.html
-Kieran

#7 of 7 OFFLINE   Allan Jayne

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Posted April 29 2007 - 02:10 AM

Yes I have read that article. Good affordable 1080i to 1080p processing only arrived about two years ago. The lowest price to get it was about $1500. in the form of a stand alone unit (by Lumagen). Also, good 1080i to 1080p processing is currently one of those features (3D comb filters had been another) that has not been found in TV sets unless the manufacturer advertised that fact. The history of good 480i to 480p processing (including 3-2 pulldown recognition and optimizing) went more or less like this: 1. Very high price good solutions (Faroudja) appeared as stand alone units. 2. (ca. 1999) Affordable good solutions (starting with theose from the original DVDO acquired by Silicon Image) appeared in stand alone units. 3. Very gradually, good solutions started to appear in near consumer grade TV sets (and DVD players and projectors). 4. While good solutions are now common and no longer always stressed in advertising, mediocre solutions continued and continue to exist in TV sets. The 1080i to 1080p processing is following a very similar pattern. We are at the start of stage 3 where the Sony SXRD series TV's were probably the first.
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