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#1 of 12 OFFLINE   gojays_1

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Posted April 12 2007 - 08:32 AM

hi all,

i'm not that happy with the picture of my plasma tv(toshiba 50hp86) when viwing my dvds (oppo 981).there are distortions in the picture which are most evident during dark scenes. i have it connected w/ hdmi. i have tried both 720p and 1080i with no discenible difference. i told oppo and their response:
You want to make sure there are no video enhancers On on your display.
We highly recommend ensuring that DNR and other high-end functions are
not on, as they can greatly impact your picture quality.

AVIA and DVE are stand alone discs which can be purchased at most local
and online retail stores which carry DVD products. The THX Optimizer
can be found on many THX Optimized films such as those from Disney and
Fox. You will use these discs and follow the onscreen commands to
calibrate your display.


I dont think i have enhancers on. how do i check? as for avia or dve will they help? where in canada can i get them?

thanks

ps sorry for small caps. have baby in 1 armPosted Image

#2 of 12 OFFLINE   Wayne A. Pflughaupt

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Posted April 12 2007 - 10:39 AM


Quote:
I dont think i have enhancers on. how do i check?
Check the TV’s manual. They will be in the menu somewhere, if you have them.

Quote:
as for avia or dve where in canada can i get them?
Google is your friend! Posted Image

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

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“A nice mid-fi system,” according to an audiophile acquaintance.

My Tech / DIY Articles and Reviews

#3 of 12 OFFLINE   joseph westcott

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Posted April 12 2007 - 11:48 AM

I would suggest setting your display to 480i or 480p.

that is the max resolution of DVD.

Your complaints do not seem to be calibration related, although it never hurts to do it. I suggest ordering Digital Video Essentials or Avia off the internet. Won't hurt.

The Oppo is well regarded and Toshiba is better than most.

Is this a problem with satelite or cable signal, or just DVD's?

The Faroudjia processors in the Oppo have been known to have macroblocking issues with some digital displays.

Macroblocking is usually seen in dark scenes or where large expanses of a solid color are on the screen. Smoke or the like looks more like a moving checkerboard of solid colors, all made of small squares. Is this what you are getting?

Turning Noise Reduction off can help but it may just be a displayDVD compatibility issue. It happens in rare instances. I suggest borrowing a neighbors DVD player or one from another bedroom and seeing if it is still doing it.

Keep us posted and let us know what you find.

#4 of 12 OFFLINE   gojays_1

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Posted April 13 2007 - 03:11 AM

Hi all,

The max resolution on my tv and dvd (upconversion) is 1080i. That is what I am using. I have tried 720p with little difference.

I'm pretty sure it's the macroblocking you are describing Joe.

Mostly a problem with DVD and analog cable. HD cable signal phenomonally better.

Last night I calibrated with the Finding Nemo DVD which has a THX optimizer. I watched a great picture. Don't know what that means if anything other than the TV is problably not the problem? Maybe it's older DVD's like Field of Dreams (the 20 year anniversary edition) I was watching that had all the distortions. It may be in DVD but may not have originally been filmed in DVD. Could that be an explanation? I did watch X-Men recently though and noticed similar distortions occasionally.

I will have to do some more experimenting with different DVD's I own.

Last resort will be to try another of our DVD players. That is a pain in the arse and will only be last resort.

Any other advice appreciated.

#5 of 12 OFFLINE   joseph westcott

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Posted April 13 2007 - 04:36 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by gojays_1
Hi all,

The max resolution on my tv and dvd (upconversion) is 1080i. That is what I am using. I have tried 720p with little difference.

I'm pretty sure it's the macroblocking you are describing Joe.
Last resort will be to try another of our DVD players.

Any other advice appreciated.

I want to clarify something because a lot of people have trouble with this concept. Most TVs will accept just about any signal you send them. From 480i to 1080p, in some cases. This is not to say that is your NATIVE resolution. Most flat panels are not true HD resolutions of 1920 x 1080 or 1280 x 720. They are usually a strange ratio like 1024 x 768 (not HD), 1366 x 768 (HD but has to be scaled up or down to accept a true HD resolution, or some other derivative). This means that scaling is being done twice or even three times, in most flat panel displays. This is not a good thing and scaling should be done once and left alone. So, un upscaling DVD player can actually be worse for the picture if it does not scale to th NATIVE resolution of the display.

So whatever you NATIVE resolution of your display is, that is what your DVD player should be set at if it is capable. It will probably not be 720p or 1080i. If your DVD player does not have these odd scaling options for your native resolution, you are better off setting the DVD player to 480p, and letting the display do the scaling once. I only mention this to help you get the best picture, although I doubt it has anything to do with your problem, which sounds more like a compatibility issue between the Oppo and your digital display that may cause macroblocking.

Only testing with someone elses different brand will you be able to tell. You should not get macroblocking via DVD. Satellite and cable, probably, and then, usually only noticeable on a very large screen or with SD.

Hope this clarifies what I was trying to get at.

#6 of 12 OFFLINE   gojays_1

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Posted April 14 2007 - 03:10 PM

This is the response I got from Oppo regarding Macroblocking:
Macroblocking is a visual error which is caused by the compression of
the original MPEG-2 DVD encode. This error is mainly observed as off
colored, slightly flashing, grouped pixels. Macroblocking errors can be
further enhanced beyond their original encoding error through the DVD
player and the display. Most macroblocking errors can be corrected
through simple video calibrations using the professional grade AVIA,
DVE, or THX Optimizer, as the brightness, contrast, and saturation
settings will most effect instances of macroblocking.


I went to Toshiba website and I believe the true resolution of the 50hp86 is WXGA (1366 x 768). But I did not notice much difference with the picture in 480, if anything it was slightly worse than 1080i and 720p.

I do get a pretty darn good picture from my HD digital cable box which I have set to 720p. But only when viewing HD channels. Would it make any difference if I set my DVD player and my cable box to both 720p?

I hooked up a used Play Station 2 I just got. I hooked it up with the regular RCA jacks. I put in a DVD to see how it looked and then my wife and I compared it to the Oppo. We both agreed that the picture was as good or better on the PS2 than the Oppo.

I e-mailed Oppo and told them I want to return my DVD player. I am awaiting there response.

#7 of 12 OFFLINE   joseph westcott

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Posted April 15 2007 - 05:01 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by gojays_1
This is the response I got from Oppo regarding Macroblocking:
Macroblocking is a visual error which is caused by the compression of
the original MPEG-2 DVD encode. This error is mainly observed as off
colored, slightly flashing, grouped pixels. Macroblocking errors can be
further enhanced beyond their original encoding error through the DVD
player and the display. Most macroblocking errors can be corrected
through simple video calibrations using the professional grade AVIA,
DVE, or THX Optimizer, as the brightness, contrast, and saturation
settings will most effect instances of macroblocking.


I went to Toshiba website and I believe the true resolution of the 50hp86 is WXGA (1366 x 768). But I did not notice much difference with the picture in 480, if anything it was slightly worse than 1080i and 720p.

I do get a pretty darn good picture from my HD digital cable box which I have set to 720p. But only when viewing HD channels. Would it make any difference if I set my DVD player and my cable box to both 720p?

I hooked up a used Play Station 2 I just got. I hooked it up with the regular RCA jacks. I put in a DVD to see how it looked and then my wife and I compared it to the Oppo. We both agreed that the picture was as good or better on the PS2 than the Oppo.

I e-mailed Oppo and told them I want to return my DVD player. I am awaiting there response.

Here is a link that descrbes the macroblocking issue with Faroudjia chips and some displays. I am not surprised by Oppos response. What are they supposed to say? They make a great player. Macroblocking is usually not a problem except when combined with some digital displays. You can find it described on the Oppo and other DVD players using the same video chip.

http://www.hometheat....h&articles=all

Just bad luck. You may have to pop for a better player. Ones with the Silicon Optix chip like the Reon or Realta is my new favorite. They make me drool and I hope to have one of my own soon. My clothes washer is on its last leg and I will have to postpone my purchase.

Good luck and let us know what happens.

#8 of 12 OFFLINE   gojays_1

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Posted April 16 2007 - 07:25 AM

That's alot of detailed info Joe! I am really new to this stuff and understanding all this stuff sometimes makes my head spin! Posted Image

If I can return the Oppo, which I have inquired about doing, I'm thinking of just getting a simple Toshiba upconversion DVD player like the SD 5000. Maybe simpler is better.

I just know that my old Toshiba DVD player hooked up to my old 27inch Toshiba tube T.V. gave me better picture quality than what I am getting now. And I'm really pissed because I spent alot of money and put hours of time researching a great home theater system.

#9 of 12 OFFLINE   Neil Joseph

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Posted April 17 2007 - 05:43 AM

Moving this one to the Displays area.
Click and enter " T H E . H O L O D E C K "
---------------------------------------------------------
My Home Theatre "The Holodeck"

 


#10 of 12 OFFLINE   gojays_1

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Posted April 18 2007 - 05:33 AM

Thank you Neil for putting this thread where this belongs! I wasn't sure where it should go myself.

You have quite the setup!

I was trying to create a great home theater myself. Little did I know just what I was getting into.

The latest from Oppo is that I should just try to return the 981 to the place I bought it. An offhand admission that there is a compatibility issue with the Oppo and certain displays. Had I known this I never would have purchased the overpriced Oppo.

I have sent an e-mail and left a voice mail with the place I bought it from, Solutions A/V, but I have yet to hear a response.

I will keep you all posted.

#11 of 12 OFFLINE   Mort Corey

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Posted April 18 2007 - 09:32 AM

Since you've already got all the parts in hand, try the Oppo player output over component at 480i to the display (same with the Non-HD channels of your cable box if it lets you change defaults in that way....ie HD channels output at 1080i or 720p and other channels 480i) You may be surprised at the results.................or not.

Mort

#12 of 12 OFFLINE   gojays_1

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Posted April 22 2007 - 01:29 AM

The company who sold me the Oppo has agreed to take back the Oppo 981 and send me the 970 instead. Great customer service at Solutions A/V. I'm very impressed with them so far.

I hope I won't have the same macroblocking issues as the have suggested because the 970 uses a different processor.

I already tried alternating between 480/720/1080 with the 981 with no appreciable results.

I'm looking forward to hooking up the 970 when it arrives. I've read great reviews about it.


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