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Yamaha Presence Speakers


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19 replies to this topic

#1 of 20 OFFLINE   leafswillwin

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Posted April 09 2007 - 02:33 PM

Hey everyone, i have bought a yamaha rxv 659 and I was wondering what the presence speakers are? How do they improve the system, also i cant find out how many watts they output on the receiver. Does the receiver lower the output on other channels so that it can get the necessary watts to the presence speakers?

thanks

#2 of 20 OFFLINE   MaxL

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Posted April 09 2007 - 04:32 PM

i just cut out my response because i had it dead wrong and i think it may have been confusing the issue for others.

sorry.
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#3 of 20 OFFLINE   Jeff O.

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Posted April 10 2007 - 01:16 AM

I think you are a little off Max. I believe the presence speakers are used to enhance the front sound stage, especially with Yamaha's different ambience modes. In this respect you run them in a full 5.1 configuration. I used to run them when I had the room in my old house. However, in my new house the front speakers are almost against the side walls. The presence speakers are supposed to go outside of the front speakers, a placement that I can not do now. I liked the effect when I ran them though.

I don't know the power requirements, but since they are just for ambience, I don't think you need full range speakers and therfore not much power. I know that if you use a 6.1 or 7.1 configuration, you can not run the presence speakers simultaneously.

#4 of 20 OFFLINE   mylan

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Posted April 10 2007 - 01:37 AM

This is a feature that Yamaha receivers have incorporated for many years involving two additional front channels at 25W for smaller "presence" speakers to be mounted higher and to the outside of the front L and R speakers. To engage it, use Dolby Digital or DTS "enhanced". It has nothing to do with the surround channels but supposedly gives a wider soundfield to the fronts. I have it on an older Yamaha RXV-2092 as well as my 659, although the 659 is a hub for my whole house audio so I never use it there. I have toyed with it on my 2092 and felt it was not necessary. I have a different space now so it might make a difference.
Yamaha is big on DSP modes so there are many variations you could try including the full 7.1 with surround and surround back as well as prescence engaged or assign the extra two back channels for a second zone. The prescence will not take away from the other channels power output.

Edit: Jeff beat me to it but I *believe* you can do a full 7.1 with presence but since my 2092 is 5.1 I cannot confirm, try it and see.
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#5 of 20 OFFLINE   MaxL

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Posted April 10 2007 - 01:56 AM

oh well....
at least i stand corrected. Posted Image
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#6 of 20 OFFLINE   bobbyg2

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Posted April 10 2007 - 03:17 AM

Yeah, my Yamaha receiver has two front speaker pair outs (A and B) so I guess you're right.
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#7 of 20 OFFLINE   mylan

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Posted April 10 2007 - 04:28 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbyg2
Yeah, my Yamaha receiver has two front speaker pair outs (A and B) so I guess you're right.

That is not the same thing. A and B lets you connect two pairs of speakers to run one pair in the main room and another pair in another room, either A or B, or both providing the load is not too great, something I would not advise because it could overheat the amp. Presence/zone2 is a whole different input.
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#8 of 20 OFFLINE   leafswillwin

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Posted April 10 2007 - 05:31 AM

so let me see if i have this right. I can have either the presence speakers or the surround back, but i cant have both right?

as for the a/b im using them for biwiring, so A goes to low freq, B to high freq on my speakers.

#9 of 20 OFFLINE   mylan

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Posted April 10 2007 - 05:59 AM

Not sure of the benefit of bi-wiring but you can run a full 7.1 in addition to the presence channel. You cannot use the presence and the zone 2 at the same time.
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#10 of 20 OFFLINE   leafswillwin

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Posted April 10 2007 - 07:07 AM

hmmm is that for most receivers? i just checked the 659's manual , it says it takes the power from the back speakers. is there a way to make it not do this?

#11 of 20 OFFLINE   bobbyg2

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Posted April 10 2007 - 07:08 AM

Quote:
because it could overheat the amp.

It does get hot, but I just blow a fan on it, works fine.
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#12 of 20 OFFLINE   leafswillwin

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Posted April 10 2007 - 07:16 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by leafswillwin
hmmm is that for most receivers? i just checked the 659's manual , it says it takes the power from the back speakers. is there a way to make it not do this?


my mistake it did not say that in the manual, although it gives a slight impression. i read in a quick review that it cant run both the presence and sourround back at the same time. however, i havent got the speakers yet and i dont want to buy more than i need. Can anyone who has the 659 confirm that you can run 7.1 plus 2 presence speakers at the same time.

thanks

#13 of 20 OFFLINE   Keith Mickunas

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Posted April 10 2007 - 07:23 AM

The extra front presence speakers on yamaha receivers have separate amps and are in no way related the rears. The front is used to enhance the front soundstage in some of the DSP modes as others have mentioned. They are not an alternative to other speakers and are used with the others. If you can't run rears, then adding the front effect speakers is something to consider just to help out, but they can also be used when rears are present.

They typically have smaller amps, like 25 or 35 watts, and don't put out a lot of sound so that is sufficient. However they share the same power supply, so if your system is close to straining already, adding these could hurt.

Quote:
hmmm is that for most receivers? i just checked the 659's manual , it says it takes the power from the back speakers. is there a way to make it not do this?
Now that issue could be specific to their lower end 7.1 receivers. Most of my knowledge comes from their 5.1 and 6.1 receivers. To cut costs they may have removed the extra amplifiers for the front effects. If that's the case, the only way to eliminate that problem would be if they have preouts and you can run it through an external amp.

In some (if not most) cases the A/B outputs are running off the same amplifier. Running both sets will put a lot of strain and could push you into clipping sooner.

#14 of 20 OFFLINE   bobbyg2

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Posted April 10 2007 - 07:40 AM

I use both sets, and I don't get any clipping at all. Probably because of me blowing a fan on it. I find it a good idea. As, you wont hear it. And, if you do hear it you're either right next to the fan, or the volume isn't high enough. I only use the fan when it's a little hot. And my receiver gets hot fast.
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#15 of 20 OFFLINE   leafswillwin

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Posted April 10 2007 - 08:35 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbyg2
I use both sets, and I don't get any clipping at all. Probably because of me blowing a fan on it. I find it a good idea. As, you wont hear it. And, if you do hear it you're either right next to the fan, or the volume isn't high enough. I only use the fan when it's a little hot. And my receiver gets hot fast.



So do you have the 659? It seems that only some yamaha models can do 7.1 + presence at the same time while others can only do one of them at a time.
im just trying to confirm this with the 659 so i can go ahead and get speakers.

thanks

#16 of 20 OFFLINE   Keith Mickunas

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Posted April 10 2007 - 11:30 AM

It looks pretty clear from the specs that there are only 7 amplifiers in it. If you look over the specs of various receivers that Yamaha has you will see that certain ones, like the RX-Z1, RX-Z9, RXV-2092 and RXV-2095 actually specify two channels for front effects that are rated lower than the others. My best guess is that they have provided the extra outputs to support those channels if you choose not to use all the surround channels, in which case they just route the amps to those other jacks.

Now why they don't just change what they send to the surround jacks I don't know. Perhaps they provide some modes that support front presence and some that only support rear surrounds, so that you can have both sets plugged in and the receiver will choose which to use in a particular mode. Only your manual will tell you for sure. If you are still unclear, try turning all the speakers on in the menus. Theoretically if it's unsupported, the menu won't let you do that.

#17 of 20 OFFLINE   leafswillwin

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Posted April 10 2007 - 02:54 PM

well i guess ill just buy speakers for the 7.1 part. that stinks, i was looking forward to having the presence speakers, but i would rather use the amps for the surround speakers, prob will have a greater impact. thanks for the help

#18 of 20 OFFLINE   mylan

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Posted April 10 2007 - 11:15 PM

Like I said, I have the 659 but I am not using it in my main HT so I can't vouch for its ability to do what your asking but from what I have read, it "should" be possible. The front effects, or presence channel speakers do not have to be of the same quality as the mains and really not as good as the surrounds because of the limited frequecies involved. You should be able to get by with a very inexpensive pair of speakers, just go ahead and get some and try it out, if you are not happy with the result or cannot get it to function, return them.
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#19 of 20 OFFLINE   leafswillwin

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Posted April 11 2007 - 06:13 AM

sounds good thanks

#20 of 20 OFFLINE   DonnyD

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Posted April 11 2007 - 08:23 AM

I'm a little late in this conversation.... but just wanted to say something about the Yams and their presence speakers...... I've had various Yamaha receivers over the years including the 2095 and my present receiver, the RX-V1.......have set up several of my friends HT also using Yams, Denons and Pioneer Elite. Whenever a location would allow it, I've used presence speakers. Right now, in my new home, I've got a great room that has me using an 11 speaker arrangement that really immerses one in a soundstage that make very good use of the V1 and what it has to offer. I definitely believe the presence speakers are an enhancement to various dsp typically used for movies watching. When that "every so often" audio experience presents itself, it is GREAT!!!! The V1 runs my whole shebang with ease..........
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