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Display Technologies Pros vs Cons thread


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#1 of 41 Father John A

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Posted March 19 2007 - 07:49 AM

OK, some of you are going to laugh at this and my mistakes but....if it's a bad idea I guess it will just die a quick death.

This thread should be done by a whole slew of individuals more knowledgeable than me, but it hasn't been done and I for one would (will?) find it helpful for a newbie to get started. I will edit out the mistakes as I get corrections. I'll also add technologies I haven't listed yet.

I feel like I'm stepping out on a ledge, but here goes....


RP LCD (Rear Projection LCD):
Pros:
Dollar value
Excellent picture
Good contrast
Good blacks
Decent SD display

Cons:
Bulb life
Size consideration (12+ inches deep)
SSE (Silk Screen Effect)
SDE (Screen Door Effect)
Off angle viewing



RP DLP (Rear Projection DLP)
Pros:
Dollar value
No burn-in
Excellent picture
Good contrast
Good blacks
Decent SD display

Cons:
Bulb life
Size consideration (12+ inches deep)
SSE (Silk Screen Effect)
SDE (Screen Door Effect)
RE (Rainbow effect)
Off angle viewing
May require periodic cleaning of the mirrors due to dust build-up



RP DLP-LED (Rear Projection DLP with LED)
Pros:
No bulb!
No Rainbow Effect
Decent Dollar value
No burn-in
Excellent picture
Decent blacks
Decent SD display

Cons:
Size consideration (12+ inches deep)?
Weak contrast & brightness, not for bright locations
Reported poor color accuracy
SSE (Silk Screen Effect)?
SDE (Screen Door Effect)?
Off angle viewing?
May require periodic cleaning of the mirrors due to dust build-up


LCoS (Liquid Crystal on Silicon)
Pros:
Decent dollar value
Excellent picture
Good contrast
Good blacks
Better SD display

Cons:
Bulb life
Size consideration (12+ inches deep)?
SSE (Silk Screen Effect)
SDE Consideration (Screen Door Effect), marginal at 1080p
Off angle viewing
Possible panel geometry problems in some instances



LCD
Pros:
Flat Screen
Decent Dollar value (getting better)
Good picture
Good contrast
Off angle viewing

Cons:
Average blacks
Motion artifacts
Can suffer from excessive brightness levels
SD display poor

Half-life consideration


Plasma
Pros:
Excellent picture, film like
Flat screen
Good contrast
Excellent blacks
Off angle viewing

Cons:
Dollar value
Possible burn-in (Image Retention), more often reversible now
Half-life
consideration


CRT Tubes
Pros:
Excellent on/off CR
Minimal display structure visibility
Resolution flexibility
Relative Value

Cons:
Poor ANSI CR
Size & weight
Phosphor wear
Potential depends heavily on setup, especially with projection CRTs.
Possible geometry issues
Antiquated (most manufacturers phasing out of this arena)


Front projection:
Pros:
Huge dollar value
Huge size potential
Most theater like

Cons:
Room must be light controlled i.e. don't even try it in a well lit room
Mounting can be problematic
Wiring can be problematic
Bulb replacement
Rainbow Effect for DLP projectors (unless they are 3 chippers)


Short Glossary:

SDE - Screen Door Effect: the pixels give the appearance of looking througha screen, especially at close ranges
SSE - Silk Screen Effect: the appearance of a "shimmery" or canvas like quality to the screen, especially notable in bright/white scenes
RE - Rainbow Effect: The potential for the red, green or blue colors of the color wheel in a Single-chip DLP projector to become visible to some individuals, especially in bright scenes.







Fr. John

#2 of 41 Patrick Sun

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Posted March 19 2007 - 09:20 AM

Just my $0.02 after staring at a lot of TVs these past couple of months:

RP LCD (Rear Projection LCD):

Cons:
Too pixelly-looking, especially for fast-motion scenes on-screen

-------

RP DLP (Rear Projection DLP)

Pros:
No burn-in

Cons:
Headaches from long-time viewing, get a model with iris control to better adjust brightness levels.
Some models require periodic cleaning of the mirrors due to dust build-up

-------

LCoS (Liquid Crystal on Silicon)

Cons:
panel geometry problems can show up for 4:3 material when bars are present, and harder to detect when 16x9 material is on-screen.

------

Plasma:

Cons:
Image Retention (goes away in short amount of time on most current models)

------
Hopefully we'll also see a few more RP DLP-LED models

Pros: same as RP DLP, plus:
No color wheel / No rainbow effect

Cons: same as RP-DLP, plus:
Average black levels (could become better)
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#3 of 41 ChrisWiggles

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Posted March 19 2007 - 09:21 AM

Where is CRT?

#4 of 41 Patrick Sun

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Posted March 19 2007 - 09:27 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisWiggles
Where is CRT?

A niche technology these days, I'm afraid.
"Jee-sus, it's like Iwo Jima out there" - Roger Sterling on "Mad Men"
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#5 of 41 ChrisWiggles

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Posted March 19 2007 - 09:28 AM

It's still the reference, niche or not.

#6 of 41 Father John A

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Posted March 19 2007 - 10:29 AM

Updated.

Chris, if you think the CRT section warrants more, let me know. I'd like to see this thread be of actual use.
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#7 of 41 ChrisWiggles

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Posted March 19 2007 - 12:12 PM

I would say this about CRT:

Pros:
Excellent on/off CR
Minimal display structure visibility
Resolution flexibility
Value

Cons:
Poor ANSI CR
Size & weight
Phosphor wear
Potential depends heavily on setup, especially with projection CRTs.

#8 of 41 jeff.m

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Posted March 19 2007 - 12:24 PM

Speaking from a still semi-newbie perspective, would it be possible to add a glossary? I'm mostly referring to the SSE, SDE and RE. I think I have a reasonable idea what they all are, but I'd like to hear a more precise description who knows better than me. Great idea, though. Thanks for the info.

#9 of 41 Father John A

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Posted March 19 2007 - 12:49 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff.m
Speaking from a still semi-newbie perspective, would it be possible to add a glossary? I'm mostly referring to the SSE, SDE and RE. I think I have a reasonable idea what they all are, but I'd like to hear a more precise description who knows better than me. Great idea, though. Thanks for the info.

Jeff, good idea. Added. Let me know if you want any others.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisWiggles
I would say this about CRT:

Pros:
Excellent on/off CR
Minimal display structure visibility
Resolution flexibility
Value

Cons:
Poor ANSI CR
Size & weight
Phosphor wear
Potential depends heavily on setup, especially with projection CRTs.

Chris,
thanks.
Fr. John

#10 of 41 richard2212

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Posted March 19 2007 - 12:56 PM

Please add Front Projection.

#11 of 41 Father John A

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Posted March 19 2007 - 01:00 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by richard2212
Please add Front Projection.

OK, but it's not gonna pretty Posted Image

I post it and wait for massive corrections!
Fr. John

#12 of 41 Steve Schaffer

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Posted March 19 2007 - 04:07 PM

Considering the fact that virtually all of us have had 20-36 inch crt direct view sets with depth of at least 20-24" I fail to see why 12-20" depth for rptv is a huge issue. Perhaps change that to "cannot be wall mounted". I've never had any particular desire to hang a tv on a wall anyway, on practical grounds alone (cable management etc) and find that ability to be of use mainly to interior decorators and not videophiles.

I'd also take issue with the "panel geometry" being an issue on LCOS sets. I'm assuming this is in reference to the "hourglass" effect when viewing 4/3 material and find it to be much less present on my Sony LCOS set than on any other rptv I've seen. I know this is an issue with crt based rptv, and have read complaints about it on Samsung dlp, but the Sony A2000 and XBR2 sets are as straight as an lcd flat panel to my eyes--haven't had a chance to check out the JVCs in this respect.

As for contrast ratio/good blacks, lcd rear projection varies by mfg. Models with variable iris being pretty darn good and those without mediocre.

Contrast ratio on Plasma also varies tremendously, better mfgs like Panasonic, Pioneer, and Fujitsu are excellent. others look good when the set is new but get really washed out after a few weeks of heavy use, especially bargain brands.

Otherwise very good and concise evaluations, presented clearly.
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#13 of 41 Dave H

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Posted March 20 2007 - 02:41 AM

I have developed a whole new respect for digital displays.

I have a two-year-old ISF'd Sony 57" CRT RPTV.

My dad just bought a new 56" 1080p Samsung DLP. I brought my PS3 to check out several movies. His set is not even ISF'd, but just keeping it in "Movie" mode and turning off Dnie, etc. I was shocked at the much greater sharpness, detail, and resolution over my set. I mean the DLP took it to the next level. Grant you, blacks were not as good as mine, but I've heard a good ISF calibrator can improve this though through the Iris and more neutral grayscale. In addition, the Samsungs can achieve perfect color decoding with a calibrator who knows what he's doing. Also, the image on his DLP had a filmlike look to it once I tweaked it a bit - and not the "digital" look you see in the other modes.

Given all of the issues my CRT RPTV has been experiencing lately, I'm very tempted to go for the Samsung. CRT RPTVs are just too much headache!

#14 of 41 Father John A

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Posted March 20 2007 - 03:07 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave H
I have developed a whole new respect for digital displays.

I have a two-year-old ISF'd Sony 57" CRT RPTV.

My dad just bought a new 56" 1080p Samsung DLP. I brought my PS3 to check out several movies. His set is not even ISF'd, but just keeping it in "Movie" mode and turning off Dnie, etc. I was shocked at the much greater sharpness, detail, and resolution over my set. I mean the DLP took it to the next level. Grant you, blacks were not as good as mine, but I've heard a good ISF calibrator can improve this though through the Iris and more neutral grayscale. In addition, the Samsungs can achieve perfect color decoding with a calibrator who knows what he's doing. Also, the image on his DLP had a filmlike look to it once I tweaked it a bit - and not the "digital" look you see in the other modes.

Given all of the issues my CRT RPTV has been experiencing lately, I'm very tempted to go for the Samsung. CRT RPTVs are just too much headache!

Dave,

No surprise here. Though I can't speak from personal experience, I expect a portion of the "CRT reference" model can be chalked up to loyalty and past track record. I would venture to guess that if CRT were still the top performers and they could improve the flaws they exhibit, it would be a moot point. In the end, it looks like the benefits of the newer technologies simply outweigh those of the old CRT. Plus, economics is going to win everytime.
Fr. John

#15 of 41 Father John A

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Posted March 20 2007 - 03:11 AM

Steve, thanks for the pointers. I made a few adjustments. As I said, I only wish someone more knowledgable than me would have done this. But I can tweak with help.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Schaffer
As for contrast ratio/good blacks, lcd rear projection varies by mfg. Models with variable iris being pretty darn good and those without mediocre.

Are you referring to the bulb or the LED version here? My mention of weak contrast is only applied tot he LED DLP which all the reports I have read confirm.
Fr. John

#16 of 41 Steve Schaffer

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Posted March 20 2007 - 07:16 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Father John A
Steve, thanks for the pointers. I made a few adjustments. As I said, I only wish someone more knowledgable than me would have done this. But I can tweak with help.



Are you referring to the bulb or the LED version here? My mention of weak contrast is only applied tot he LED DLP which all the reports I have read confirm.

I was referring to LCD rear projection (Sony E2000 has variable iris, Hitachi VS69 does not, don't know about the few Mits lcd rp sets still available), not DLP.
Steve S.
I prefer not to push the subwoofers until they're properly run in.

#17 of 41 Steve Schaffer

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Posted March 20 2007 - 07:22 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave H
I have developed a whole new respect for digital displays.

I have a two-year-old ISF'd Sony 57" CRT RPTV.

My dad just bought a new 56" 1080p Samsung DLP. I brought my PS3 to check out several movies. His set is not even ISF'd, but just keeping it in "Movie" mode and turning off Dnie, etc. I was shocked at the much greater sharpness, detail, and resolution over my set. I mean the DLP took it to the next level. Grant you, blacks were not as good as mine, but I've heard a good ISF calibrator can improve this though through the Iris and more neutral grayscale. In addition, the Samsungs can achieve perfect color decoding with a calibrator who knows what he's doing. Also, the image on his DLP had a filmlike look to it once I tweaked it a bit - and not the "digital" look you see in the other modes.

Given all of the issues my CRT RPTV has been experiencing lately, I'm very tempted to go for the Samsung. CRT RPTVs are just too much headache!

I had the exact same reaction when I got my Sony 60A2000 to replace my KP57HW40. I sold the old set to my ex brother-in-law (he loves it) and don't dare let him see the new one.

I too was a crt die-hard, thinking the LCOS would be sharper but couldn't do the film-like image. I was wrong.
Steve S.
I prefer not to push the subwoofers until they're properly run in.

#18 of 41 Joseph DeMartino

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Posted March 21 2007 - 02:08 AM

I've never even heard of the "silk screen effect", much less seen it. You guys must have better eyes than I do. Posted Image And I would dispute listing "screen door effect" as one of the cons for LCoS. One of the specific advantages of LCoS over LCD RP is its superior "fill", which essentially eliminates the SDE. It is one reason I went with LCoS, rather than one of the competing RP technologies, and I have never seen a hint of SDE on my 56" JVC 720p HD-ILA. (I've also never seen a geometry problem on it - 4:3 pillarbox bars and 2.35:1 letterbox bars, plus all-around matting of unzoomed letterboxed material on SD channels, are all perfectly straight as far as I can tell without taking a t-square and a spirit level to the screen. Posted Image)

Regards,

Joe

#19 of 41 Father John A

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Posted March 21 2007 - 02:21 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph DeMartino
I've never even heard of the "silk screen effect", much less seen it. You guys must have better eyes than I do. Posted Image And I would dispute listing "screen door effect" as one of the cons for LCoS. One of the specific advantages of LCoS over LCD RP is its superior "fill", which essentially eliminates the SDE. It is one reason I went with LCoS, rather than one of the competing RP technologies, and I have never seen a hint of SDE on my 56" JVC 720p HD-ILA. (I've also never seen a geometry problem on it - 4:3 pillarbox bars and 2.35:1 letterbox bars, plus all-around matting of unzoomed letterboxed material on SD channels, are all perfectly straight as far as I can tell without taking a t-square and a spirit level to the screen. Posted Image)

Regards,

Joe

Joe,

Your'e lucky. I'm NOT in the videophile camp so am not overly nuts about PQ (just normally picky, it better be sharp and at least as good as my old 16 yr old CRT Posted Image), I do see the SSE very much though, it's quite noticable on both the Sony RP LCD & LCoS and all the newer DLP for me. Thankfully it doesn't bother me much, especially at viewing distance. I'm surprised you haven't heard of it.

As for the geometry note, I listed it as a possibility only.
Fr. John

#20 of 41 Joseph DeMartino

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Posted March 21 2007 - 02:35 AM

Quote:
I do see the SSE very much though, it's quite noticable on both the Sony RP LCD & LCoS and all the newer DLP for me...

...As for the geometry note, I listed it as a possibility only.

And the screen-door effect? Posted Image

Joe


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