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Warner's Total HD cripples HD DVD (temporarily) and Blu-ray (permanently)


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#1 of 160 OFFLINE   Juan C

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Posted March 14 2007 - 09:39 PM

From Home Media Magazine:

Quote:
Warner’s Total HD, a combined HD DVD and Blu-ray disc, will be ready for the market by June, said Dominick DallaVerde, senior director of HD operations, new technology and applications for Cinram. That will be a disc with a 15GB HD DVD on one side and a 25GB Blu-ray disc on the other. A higher capacity HD DVD 30GB/Blu-ray 25GB will be ready to ship by August, he said.

Firstly, it must be known that any Total HD releases between June and August will be single-layer for both formats.

However, it is even more serious for Blu-ray owners: the Cinram exec gives no timeframe for the readiness of an HD DVD 30GB/Blu-ray 50GB, so going from that, all Total HD releases going forward will be single-layer Blu-ray.



[Note: yes, I'm Grubert at avs and elsewhere Posted Image ]

#2 of 160 OFFLINE   Cees Alons

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Posted March 14 2007 - 09:51 PM

Which titles? If they don't need double layers, nothing is "crippled". There are many one-layer HD DVDs and BDs out already, I don't consider them "cripples" either.

And only between June and August? You would want them to start with TotalHD in August instead?

I seriously consider this a non-issue.


Cees

#3 of 160 OFFLINE   Juan C

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Posted March 14 2007 - 10:25 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cees Alons
Which titles? If they don't need double layers, nothing is "crippled".

Just look at the Warner releases of this year:
- The Getaway (123'): HD 30, BD 50
- Bullitt (114'): HD 30, BD 50
- The Departed (151'): HD 30/9, BD 50
- The Wicker Man (106'): HD 30/9, BD 25
- Lady in the Water (109'): HD 30/9, BD 25
- Scooby Doo (86'): HD 30/9, BD 25

So anything by Warner with a running time of two hours or more is using dual layer for both HD DVD and BD.

Quote:
There are many one-layer HD DVDs and BDs out already, I don't consider them "cripples" either.

But the technology allows them to use dual-layer if they need to. With Total HD, that option disappears.

Quote:
And only between June and August? You would want them to start with TotalHD in August instead?


Because if they did it in August, they wouldn't be able to toot their horns at CEDIA in September.

#4 of 160 OFFLINE   Cees Alons

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Posted March 14 2007 - 10:53 PM

Quote:
But the technology allows them to use dual-layer if they need to. With Total HD, that option disappears.
Not at all.
If all that's said is true, it just isn't being used for a period of 3 months (or perhaps 2 months and half).

And the other question remains: would the releases they bring out in that period need it?


Cees

#5 of 160 OFFLINE   Juan C

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Posted March 14 2007 - 11:10 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cees Alons
Not at all.
If all that's said is true, it just isn't being used for a period of 3 months (or perhaps 2 months and half).

Yeah, after which it will only hobble the BD side.

Quote:
And the other question remains: would the releases they bring out in that period need it?

That's a difficult question to answer, considering we don't know the Warner summer slate. Posted Image But the titles rumored (Natural Born Killers, LA Confidential, Blade Runner) all would exceed 15GB for sure.

#6 of 160 OFFLINE   Wet1

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Posted March 14 2007 - 11:21 PM

I am not going to support two formats and I will not support the more expensive and half-azz Total HD products either.

It's becoming pretty clear the market is going forward with BR so that's where their support should be prioritized. That's great if they further choose to support HD-DVD or any other second fiddle format, but their efforts should be focused on where the market is, BR... This means full 50GB discs for BR w/o the Total HD prices.

#7 of 160 OFFLINE   MarekM

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Posted March 14 2007 - 11:24 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cees Alons
Which titles? If they don't need double layers, nothing is "crippled". There are many one-layer HD DVDs and BDs out already, I don't consider them "cripples" either.

And only between June and August? You would want them to start with TotalHD in August instead?

I seriously consider this a non-issue.


Cees

This is big issue if they will not use BD50,
as mentioned, all titles over 2hours using HD30/BD50

do you want to get many more MOVIES out without ANY BONUSES ???
or they will remove any advanced AUDIO due SPACE ?

come on Cees this is not acceptable...

Marek

#8 of 160 OFFLINE   Wet1

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Posted March 14 2007 - 11:33 PM

I personally don't care about 'bonus' material (although I know some do), but I do what the excellent PCM I've come to expect from BR titles as I much prefer it over some of the compressed Dolby formats. I suspect PCM would get axed on these half-azz Total HD discs.

#9 of 160 OFFLINE   Juan C

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Posted March 15 2007 - 12:01 AM

There's another interesting repercussion.

Warner has been using the same encodes and contents (except for audio specs) for BD and HD DVD. They are always under 30 GB. When the title ends up under 25 GB then the BD is single-layer (Lady in the Water); when it's over 25 GB then the BD is dual-layer (Bullitt).

However, what happens when you're limited to 25GB on the BD side? Are they going to reencode for 30GB for the HD DVD side? I doubt it. So they will probably end up doing a 25/25 disc.

#10 of 160 OFFLINE   Wet1

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Posted March 15 2007 - 12:15 AM

Good point...

#11 of 160 OFFLINE   Bob Black

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Posted March 15 2007 - 12:47 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wet1
I am not going to support two formats and I will not support the more expensive and half-azz Total HD products either.

It's becoming pretty clear the market is going forward with BR so that's where their support should be prioritized. That's great if they further choose to support HD-DVD or any other second fiddle format, but their efforts should be focused on where the market is, BR... This means full 50GB discs for BR w/o the Total HD prices.


For all intents & purposes, both formats have been locked in a virtual dead-heat in overall sales. And this is with the fact that Blu-Ray has been discounting and giving away discs with numerous BOGO and 50%-off sales, rebate forms in PS3's, and such! Not to mention the fact that the recent sales disparity comes at a time when there were little to no new HD-DVD releases in the market. As od March 27th, that scenario changes dramatically.

The format war is only "over" in the minds of Sony and anyone stupid enough to believe their BS! HD-DVD has shown steady growth since launch. An industry report that surfaced just a week ago projected HD-DVD player sales to reach 1.7 million by the end of 2007! The format is here to stay, and numbers like that will undoubtedly recruit more studio support.

#12 of 160 OFFLINE   MarekM

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Posted March 15 2007 - 12:57 AM

I wonder how they are going to reach 1.7mil players...

do you know number of HD DVD players and how much they have to sell to reach that number ?

Marek

#13 of 160 OFFLINE   Shawn Perron

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Posted March 15 2007 - 12:58 AM

What a horrible move. If past experience is any guide, they will use the same encode for both sides. In this case each disc will be either the same as a 15/15 disc or a 25/25 disc. So instead of getting the best of either format, we get some mediocre compromise that limits the movie to the least common denominator. So much for the format war "pushing" companies to release better product. Anyone here want Warner to release Matrix or New Line to release Lord of the Rinds as a single layer HD-DVD 15? Didn't think so.

#14 of 160 OFFLINE   Cees Alons

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Posted March 15 2007 - 01:04 AM

Quote:
do you want to get many more MOVIES out without ANY BONUSES ???
...
come on Cees this is not acceptable...
What "many more"? Perhaps even none will come out during those two months and a half.... That would indeed be totally acceptable to me. Posted Image


Cees

#15 of 160 OFFLINE   Juan C

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Posted March 15 2007 - 01:06 AM

Cees, you're not looking at the long-term effects. See Shawn's post just above yours...

#16 of 160 OFFLINE   Bob Black

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Posted March 15 2007 - 01:07 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarekM
I wonder how they are going to reach 1.7mil players...

do you know number of HD DVD players and how much they have to sell to reach that number ?

Marek

The report had both formats selling approximately the same number of players by the end of 2007. It projected HD-DVD hardware sales as 1.2 million stand-alone players & 500,000 HD-DVD add-ons for the XBox 360.

It's comparable figures for Blu-Ray factored the PS3 at 22% of owners buying BD movies consistently, based on current sales trends.

http://www.videobusi.../CA6422896.html

#17 of 160 OFFLINE   Cees Alons

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Posted March 15 2007 - 01:19 AM

Juan,

Quote:
Cees, you're not looking at the long-term effects. See Shawn's post just above yours...
That's a different problem: already discussed when and where we discussed the combo. As long as the two formats differ they either have to make the two "sides" different, or choose the least of the two supported possibilities to make them equal.

It has nothing, or hardly anything, to do with the fact that they may only bring out single-sided discs for a limited period of time.

In fact, I think that the moment they press a 30Gb HD DVD (filled above 25Gb), they will also need to use a double-sided BD, given their policy of making the two sides equivalent. That's why I'm not specifically concerned about this "news".

The combo itself, that's another matter, but for the sake of this forum's clarity, let's not blur each and every thread that's vaguely about a particular subject with the same (slightly different) discussions again.


Cees

#18 of 160 OFFLINE   MarekM

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Posted March 15 2007 - 01:21 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cees Alons
What "many more"? Perhaps even none will come out during those two months and a half.... That would indeed be totally acceptable to me. Posted Image


Cees

hey Posted Image I thought, that you will ever reply on my messages Posted Image lol

I will be OK if NONE will come out...., but as mentioned I don;t want MATRIX on some crippled HD DVD or BD Posted Image

Marek

#19 of 160 OFFLINE   MarekM

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Posted March 15 2007 - 01:27 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Black
The report had both formats selling approximately the same number of players by the end of 2007. It projected HD-DVD hardware sales as 1.2 million stand-alone players & 500,000 HD-DVD add-ons for the XBox 360.

It's comparable figures for Blu-Ray factored the PS3 at 22% of owners buying BD movies consistently, based on current sales trends.

http://www.videobusi.../CA6422896.html

Bob, thanx for link !!

but I will not take Mandato's words as industry report Posted Image

one im portatn thing, last time HD DVD and BD standalone PLAYERS were about 52% for HD DVD and 48% for BD !!!! almost even !

so I don't see at the end of the year 1.2 mil HD DVD standalone players and only 0.5mil BD standalone players !!

see this sentence in same article
Quote:
Industry sources say both BD and HD DVD stand-alone player sales were about equal in February.

like BD players will stop sell after february ? and that 52:48 for HD DVD were from january I think....

Marek

#20 of 160 OFFLINE   Cees Alons

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Posted March 15 2007 - 01:34 AM

BTW, even when it's not a combo, BD versions of movies that are also on HD DVD tend to have the same specs. So it's certainly not a "new" issue!


(Marek,

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarekM
hey I thought Posted Image, that you will ever reply on my messages Posted Image lol
Hmm. On the contrary, you never replied to my last PM... Posted Image )
Quote:
I don;t want MATRIX on some crippled HD DVD or BD Posted Image
Agreed, I would never buy the crippled version.


Cees

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