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North By Northwest Restoration for 2009?


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78 replies to this topic

#41 of 79 Haden

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Posted March 02 2008 - 05:27 PM

Resurrecting this thread a year after it started to see if there's any news on the rumored special edition for next year.

I can't remember if it was confirmed that another HTF chat with Warners would happen this year, but if one is planned I hope somebody remembers to ask about this title.

#42 of 79 Robert Harris

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Posted March 02 2008 - 11:26 PM

Williamsburg: The Story of a Patriot is currently being screened in Colonial Williamsburg, VA in 70mm prints derived from restored VVLA master elements.

RAH

"All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible. This I did." T.E. Lawrence


#43 of 79 RobertGr

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Posted March 03 2008 - 12:53 AM

Just a heads up for all you fans of this GREAT film in the New York area. This Saturday March 8, 2008 The LaFayette Theater in Suffern NY is opening their amazing Saturday morning series BIG SCREEN CLASSICS with the screening on NORTH BY NORTHWEST. The doors open at 11am and the admission price is $7.00 for all ages. Besides seeing this classic film you might get the chance to speak with Nelson Page the owner of the theater and a avid classic film fan and even meet fellow poster on this forum Bob Furmanek who donates a lot of materiel to help make the series of classics even better!

#44 of 79 Lord Dalek

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Posted March 03 2008 - 05:02 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by MatthewA
Is VistaVision still used for effects work anymore?
It is but not to the extent that it used to be. ILM still uses it for shooting live action plates.

Also I have a question which maybe RAH can answer. What exactly is "Super VistaVision" and what ratio does it utilitze?

#45 of 79 Robert Harris

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Posted March 03 2008 - 06:49 AM

Super VistaVision or Super VistaVision 70 was a moniker given to 70mm prints derived from VVLA originals.

"All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible. This I did." T.E. Lawrence


#46 of 79 Mark Zimmer

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Posted March 03 2008 - 07:43 AM

Mr. Harris' silence on the topic of this thread is apparently all we need to know. That's too bad.

#47 of 79 Robert Harris

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Posted March 03 2008 - 08:16 AM

For the record, my silence on the topic has nothing to do with any plans that may be afoot.

I personally have nothing to do with anything that might be planned, and if I knew of anything planned by others, I would not be able to comment on it.

Simple as that.

RAH

"All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible. This I did." T.E. Lawrence


#48 of 79 Mark Zimmer

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Posted March 04 2008 - 03:37 AM

OK, then I stand corrected. Sorry about that. Move along folks, nothing to see here.

#49 of 79 Douglas Monce

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Posted March 04 2008 - 11:45 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Theakston
Separation masters have been done by the studios since practically day one.

The problem is that printing off of seps is phenominally expensive, so it is one done for films that studios know will make back the money (if that).

NORTH BY NORTHWEST was shot on standard Eastman stock, but because prints were by Technicolor, they would have 8-perf separations for sure.

Technicolor prints do NOT mean that separations were made. Technicolor prints can be made directly from the Eastman O neg, or interneg. Of course it doesn't mean that protection separations weren't made, just that they weren't needed just to make Technicolor prints.

Doug
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#50 of 79 Jack Theakston

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Posted March 05 2008 - 06:19 AM

Quote:
Technicolor prints do NOT mean that separations were made. Technicolor prints can be made directly from the Eastman O neg, or interneg. Of course it doesn't mean that protection separations weren't made, just that they weren't needed just to make Technicolor prints.

It does, in fact.

Technicolor's policy was that they would make black and white separations on anything they were printing so that if the camera negative was damaged in any way, they would still have a back-up to print from.

This was an optional step, but given the relatively low cost and high insurance it gave each picture, almost all of the major studios sprung for it.
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#51 of 79 Douglas Monce

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Posted March 05 2008 - 06:30 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Theakston
It does, in fact.

Technicolor's policy was that they would make black and white separations on anything they were printing so that if the camera negative was damaged in any way, they would still have a back-up to print from.

This was an optional step, but given the relatively low cost and high insurance it gave each picture, almost all of the major studios sprung for it.


Ah I see, I didn't know it was a policy of Technicolor to make separations, but they are not needed to make the prints. Also just because they were done doesn't meant that they were done correctly. See the extra feature on the Pollyanna DVD for an example. I believe if I remember correctly they got two yellow layer separations and a blue layer rather than a a full RGB. More often than not when separations were made, they were not checked for quality.

In the case of North By Northwest I have to assume that they are missing, or they wouldn't have gone to all the trouble that they did to extract what little color information there is left from the original negative when Lowry did their work for the DVD.

Doug
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#52 of 79 Josh Steinberg

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Posted March 05 2008 - 06:45 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Douglas Monce
Also just because they were done doesn't meant that they were done correctly. See the extra feature on the Pollyanna DVD for an example. I believe if I remember correctly they got two yellow layer separations and a blue layer rather than a a full RGB. More often than not when separations were made, they were not checked for quality.

I've read plenty of stories about that as well, that separations were often made but rarely checked. It seems mind boggling now that there wouldn't be someone paying attention to quality control, but I really shouldn't be surprised by that anymore.

#53 of 79 Jack Theakston

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Posted March 05 2008 - 07:03 AM

Most seps were made correctly, otherwise, there would be no point to making them. Every once in a while, there's the exception to the rule, like POLLYANNA. But I'd say that more than 95% of the seps made over the years are perfectly fine-- it's not rocket science.

The real problem that studios would not like to have you hear is that you must print optically or digitally to recombine separations, which is often a process that is two to three times more expensive than making a contact print. On a minor film-- who wants to spend it when it won't make it back? Marketability is the name of the game.

Yes, the seps on NBN are either unusable (which could be for a myriad of reasons) or missing. I heard that Lowry ended up using what they had, and then pulled one of the color layers off of some print (although I don't know how true that is-- I think it would have compromised the quality a little bit more than is obvious).
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#54 of 79 Douglas Monce

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Posted March 05 2008 - 08:50 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Theakston
Most seps were made correctly, otherwise, there would be no point to making them. Every once in a while, there's the exception to the rule, like POLLYANNA. But I'd say that more than 95% of the seps made over the years are perfectly fine-- it's not rocket science.

The real problem that studios would not like to have you hear is that you must print optically or digitally to recombine separations, which is often a process that is two to three times more expensive than making a contact print. On a minor film-- who wants to spend it when it won't make it back? Marketability is the name of the game.

Yes, the seps on NBN are either unusable (which could be for a myriad of reasons) or missing. I heard that Lowry ended up using what they had, and then pulled one of the color layers off of some print (although I don't know how true that is-- I think it would have compromised the quality a little bit more than is obvious).


I'm not sure about the 95% number. I've heard many people talking about how the protection separations aren't usable for any number of reasons, often because they weren't done correctly in the first place. And often because of shrinkage, of course now shrinkage can be corrected with Warner's ultra resolution process. Also I have my doubts about 95% of those separation masters still existing.

You'd be surprised how often something is supposed to be "not rocket science" but is still screwed up from a lab. One film that I was working as a production coordinator on, the answer print was sent back no less than 8 times, not to dial in the color, but because of out right mistakes. This was not a little film either, it was a major feature for a major studio using a big name lab.

Doug
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#55 of 79 Billy Batson

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Posted March 05 2008 - 09:36 AM

If the seps. are a requirement of the insurance co. then it's an expence that the film studio don't need (& they do get a bit tight fisted at that stage). So they're made, stuck in a can unchecked & forgotten & ...... all those years later that's all they have. If everyone's done there job properly then all should be OK......if.

#56 of 79 Jack Theakston

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Posted March 05 2008 - 11:22 AM

Quote:
I'm not sure about the 95% number. I've heard many people talking about how the protection separations aren't usable for any number of reasons, often because they weren't done correctly in the first place. And often because of shrinkage, of course now shrinkage can be corrected with Warner's ultra resolution process. Also I have my doubts about 95% of those separation masters still existing.

Look, all I'm saying is that almost all of them were done correctly, based on personal experience and from talking to other people in the field. Whether or not they're USABLE is an entirely different ballgame, and there are a heck of a lot of original elements that over the next 20 or 30 years might be deemed as totally unusable. Seps got tossed in a can and that was it. Many of them (as well as the camera negs) ARE going vinegar.

Quote:
You'd be surprised how often something is supposed to be "not rocket science" but is still screwed up from a lab. One film that I was working as a production coordinator on, the answer print was sent back no less than 8 times, not to dial in the color, but because of out right mistakes. This was not a little film either, it was a major feature for a major studio using a big name lab.

No, I'm not really surprised, but in this day and age, I'm not surprised at anything. But we're talking about an era where there was a fairly good deal of care taken in preparing this sort of stuff simply out of the fear of losing one's job. Today, that sort of mentality doesn't apply always (if ever).
-J. Theakston

#57 of 79 Douglas Monce

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Posted March 05 2008 - 11:37 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Theakston

No, I'm not really surprised, but in this day and age, I'm not surprised at anything. But we're talking about an era where there was a fairly good deal of care taken in preparing this sort of stuff simply out of the fear of losing one's job. Today, that sort of mentality doesn't apply always (if ever).


While I would agree that there was generally a very high level of quality control at Technicolor, the same could not be said of many of the other labs in the early days of Eastman color.

Deluxe was particularly notorious for poor quality prints and also inconsistent quality of processing of the negatives. Its a major reason that so many films from the 50s, particularly Fox films, are turning pink, and as you said turning to vinegar. And often times the processing was done at Deluxe, and only prints were made at Technicolor.

Doug
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#58 of 79 rich_d

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Posted March 05 2008 - 11:50 AM

At this point in time, there aren't too many films that I'm looking forward to a double dip on but this is one.

There may be better Hitchcock films but if I had to suggest one and only one film to a young film fan to see, to know what Hitchcock was about ... it would be North By Northwest.

#59 of 79 Douglas Monce

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Posted March 05 2008 - 11:57 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by rich_d
At this point in time, there aren't too many films that I'm looking forward to a double dip on but this is one.

There may be better Hitchcock films but if I had to suggest one and only one film to a young film fan to see, to know what Hitchcock was about ... it would be North By Northwest.

I agree. For me North by Northwest along with Rear Window are Hitchcock's most watchable films, and NBNW is probably the most fun.

Doug
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#60 of 79 Reagan

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Posted March 06 2008 - 01:27 AM

Quote:
NBNW is probably the most fun.


Doug, I think you've hit on it there. It really is tons of fun. I've moved to a point in my life where I no longer care about having a serious, deep, moving experience at a movie - I've got my real life for that. I'm looking forward to a restored NBNW (on Blu-ray). It should be great.

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