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Official HTF "Peter Pan - Platinum Edition" review?


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#121 of 138 baracine

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Posted March 14 2007 - 10:37 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet
Many experts who care a great deal about this film worked long and hard to research and restore the color balance to what they determined was the most historically accurate representation for this latest dvd.

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"We thank you for the kind words, sir."
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#122 of 138 Mike Frezon

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Posted March 15 2007 - 12:43 AM

As predicted, this thread has spun away from issues about the release itself and devolved into a morass of sniping and bickering.

It's too bad. I used to really look forward to the Disney feature film/software threads. But they have become quite predictable, repetitive, non-informative and just plain nasty. Posted Image

There's Jessie the yodeling cowgirl. Bullseye, he's Woody's horse. Pete the old prospector. And, Woody, the man himself.Of course, it's time for Woody's RoundUp. He's the very best! He's the rootinest, tootinest cowboy in the wild, wild west!


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#123 of 138 Ken_McAlinden

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Posted March 15 2007 - 01:16 AM

Perhaps we could start a thread in the After-Hours Lounge called "How Do I Know the Color Blue to You is the Same as the Color Blue to Me", emphasizing a mellower late night college party tone?

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#124 of 138 baracine

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Posted March 15 2007 - 02:07 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Frezon
As predicted, this thread has spun away from issues about the release itself and devolved into a morass of sniping and bickering.

It's too bad. I used to really look forward to the Disney feature film/software threads. But they have become quite predictable, repetitive, non-informative and just plain nasty. Posted Image

There is no sniping and bickering, just a healthy exchange of contradictory opinions. This thread must have been very informative for people like you who were not aware of the colour issues of this latest release and, for that reason, I am glad to say it has more than fulfilled its purpose.Posted Image
Benoît A. Racine, Toronto

#125 of 138 Mike Frezon

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Posted March 15 2007 - 04:32 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by baracine
There is no sniping and bickering, just a healthy exchange of contradictory opinions. This thread must have been very informative for people like you who were not aware of the colour issues of this latest release and, for that reason, I am glad to say it has more than fulfilled its purpose.Posted Image

Benoit:

It would be arrogant for you to assume that this thread has been beneficial/informative to me after I've just declared it not to be so.

Let's see if I can sum up the main points of the positions taken here:

Benoit--"Yellows are skewed."
Dave Boulet--"Who among us knows what the original theatrical color representation was?"
Others: "DVD looks great!"

I appreciate that you might think this has been a "positive exchange of contradictory positions"...and to a small extent, it has. But for the most part the thread has been hijacked by your assertion (as correct or incorrect as it may be) that the yellows are jacked.

If you took the time to read back through most any other review thread on a Disney animated feature here at the HTF you'd see much of the same discussion covered already: questions about framing, color, restoration issues, audio mixes...all coming back to the same question--what was the original intent by the artists and Disney Company? These are issues that are exaggerated in the realm of animation for various reasons...and they are all valid discussions and make for great debate.

I guess I'm just missing the "great debate" part.

There's Jessie the yodeling cowgirl. Bullseye, he's Woody's horse. Pete the old prospector. And, Woody, the man himself.Of course, it's time for Woody's RoundUp. He's the very best! He's the rootinest, tootinest cowboy in the wild, wild west!


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Dieting with my Dog & Heart to Heart/Hand in Paw by Peggy Frezon


#126 of 138 baracine

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Posted March 15 2007 - 04:43 AM

You're the one who wrote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Frezon
Now, though, I have straight in my head that the captures in post #52 are 2007 (left) and 2002 (right). That seems disheartening in terms of color.

As for the audio mix, this is an excerpt from my Amazon.com review:

Quote:
Where the PE really shines, though, is in the sound department which might persuade me to buy this edition (I only rented). The whole soundtrack (dialog, singing voices, orchestra, sound effects) has been completely rethought, refurbished and rechannelled creatively for 5.1 (in French and Spanish too). There is a lot of work evident also in the original mono track. But in the Enhanced home theatre mix (the word "enhanced" appears three times on the cover), very interesting things happen. The dialog is mostly in the center speaker but the music comes regularly through the other four speakers. At some points, individual instruments are made to come through all the surround speakers (like the harp, when Peter appears on the rooftop, instead of the flute, like you might guess). The sound of instruments and voices has been given more resonance. It is less harsh, dry or abrupt. The children voices are almost bearable in this version. There is nothing grating in the brass or in any other part of the orchestra. Everything sounds modern, natural and free-flowing. Of course, the sound effects have been amplified with bass and the mix makes good use of directional effects (Tinker Bell's glockenspiel and céleste, the crocodile's ticking clock, Peter's ghostly voice in Skull Rock). The whole film becomes a symphony where the music takes center stage without overshadowing the character voices, which are now disentangled from the surrounding music. This is another element that adds to the dream-like quality of the whole and one that I like very much. By comparison, the 5.1 mix of the Special Edition (2002) and the 4.0 mix of the Limited Edition (1999) was only fat, untreated mono with lots of harshness in the loud passages and instability in the soft ones.

Benoît A. Racine, Toronto

#127 of 138 Mike Frezon

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Posted March 15 2007 - 05:04 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by baracine
You're the one who wrote:


Yeah. And what's your point?

It has been explained-to-death in numerous places during those other discussions I've referenced that screen caps are not an exact science and subject to various anomalies which make capture-to-capture comparisons difficult and often worthless.

As David has so obviously pointed out yours is a valid opinion. But it is just that--an opinion. And you are welcome to it. But there are just so many questions about original intent with the animated features that to rely on a 54 year old memory for color correctness is a stretch for anyone.

While I'm guessing you quoted me to show that I have drunk the kool-aid you have provided. Don't. I intended, at the time, to explain that I now understood which-release-was-which since, intuitively, I expected the older release to be positioned on the left. And, that based on that new understanding, it seemed that there might be trouble with the colors in the new edition.

I am unconvinced. What I hope for in this these threads (and this is one of the reasons I am disappointed with this particular thread) is more people weighing in on their opinion. While the page count is piling up...it is filled mostly with this kind of pointless give-and-take between you & David and you & me about garbage that's got little to do with the DVD presentation itself.

There's Jessie the yodeling cowgirl. Bullseye, he's Woody's horse. Pete the old prospector. And, Woody, the man himself.Of course, it's time for Woody's RoundUp. He's the very best! He's the rootinest, tootinest cowboy in the wild, wild west!


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Dieting with my Dog & Heart to Heart/Hand in Paw by Peggy Frezon


#128 of 138 baracine

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Posted March 15 2007 - 05:58 AM

I don't think the way a film looks on DVD can be considered "garbage". What are we supposed to talk about, the lovely artwork on the cover?
Benoît A. Racine, Toronto

#129 of 138 Craig Beam

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Posted March 15 2007 - 06:13 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by baracine
I don't think the way a film looks on DVD can be considered "garbage". What are we supposed to talk about, the lovely artwork on the cover?

I'd argue that your "Cletus the Hillbilly" post (above) would qualify as absolute garbage.

#130 of 138 Michael Reuben

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Posted March 15 2007 - 06:52 AM

I've closed this thread temporarily so that everyone can take a deep breath. When it reopens (which will be shortly) let's move on from the color issue. It's been thoroughly aired, and it's clear from everything on this page that there's nothing more to add.

M.
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#131 of 138 TravisR

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Posted March 16 2007 - 03:29 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Beam
"Cletus the Hillbilly"
Actually, it's Cletus The Slack Jawed Yokel. Posted Image

#132 of 138 RomanSohor

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Posted March 16 2007 - 05:00 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris S
I always loved this shot. Is the person that did the background paintings on Peter Pan the same person who did paintings for Sleeping Beauty? Really great stuff!

Sleeping Beauty's backgrounds were Eyvnd Earl... slightly different look - but both gorgeous.
Roman Sohor, CTS

#133 of 138 Brian Kidd

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Posted March 19 2007 - 11:11 AM

For me, the "Platinum" Editions are hit or miss. Occasionally, they're eye-opening experiences, such as SNOW WHITE, FANTASTIA (yes, I know it isn't technically a Platinum) and SLEEPING BEAUTY. However, I do feel that, currently, Disney Home Video has no regard for whether or not a film is accurate, just so it's deemed "pretty" to a modern audience. It's all about selling more copies. Was THE LITTLE MERMAID truly in need of a restoration? If so, how come it really doesn't look so good on its "Platinum" release? Why have the Treasures been discontinued? Why has the quality of supplements on the "Platinum Editions" steadily declined since the initial outings? The truth is, Disney Home Video just doesn't care. As long as it sells, they'll cater to the lowest common denominator.

Is this version of PAN better than previous ones? In some ways, yes. Is it accurate? Who can say? I can say that I prefer the older color timing, but the clarity of the new transfer is nice.

I guess it comes down to it not being the perfect release, but so few releases (by anybody) are. I'm glad the film is out there and I'm glad that they didn't edit for PC reasons but I still await the "perfect" edition I so crave as a fan of the film.

Maybe someday.
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#134 of 138 DaViD Boulet

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Posted March 19 2007 - 12:02 PM

Quote:
Was THE LITTLE MERMAID truly in need of a restoration? If so, how come it really doesn't look so good on its "Platinum" release? Why have the Treasures been discontinued?

Folks should note that Disney "cheaped out" with the Little Mermaid and didn't use LDI like with their other palt. releases. They just applied DNR and it shows!

Also, I had heard that the decision to discontinue the Treasures sets turned out to be a rumor and that more are on the way. Anyone care to comment?
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#135 of 138 MatthewLouwrens

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Posted March 19 2007 - 01:37 PM

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I had heard that the decision to discontinue the Treasures sets turned out to be a rumor and that more are on the way. Anyone care to comment?
I think we're waiting to hear about that one. Leonard Maltin has said they have been cancelled, Disney deny this. We won't know until we get the next wave announcement, or we realise it has been a couple of years since the last wave.
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#136 of 138 Matt Hough

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Posted March 19 2007 - 03:46 PM

As for being deemed "pretty" to modern audiences, on another thread (about the Fox/Faye musicals), we've been discussing that those who make these transfers are making the final decisions about brightness and depth of color. Disney is hardly alone in this. Every studio dealing with color films has made both good and bad decisions on that score.

#137 of 138 Stephen_J_H

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Posted March 20 2007 - 08:12 AM

To wit, the first, wretched version of The Sound of Music on DVD, although colour wasn't the only concern on that release. A good example of bad colour judgment is the first release of Lawrence of Arabia on DVD.
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#138 of 138 ScottR

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Posted March 20 2007 - 10:54 AM

Speaking of LDI remasterings being on the blue side...I was checking out Snow White and the final scene before "the kiss" the entire forest is blue and purple...her sleeves are purple instead of blue. I wonder if this was caused by their equipment or if it was intentional?


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