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#1 of 22 OFFLINE   Chu Gai

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Posted February 16 2007 - 03:36 AM

So I'm watching Donny Deutch the other nite, and he's got on this guy who's breeding and selling select mixed breeds of dogs at some pretty hefty prices. But I have to say, the ones he brought to the show are simply the cutest looking things and almost makes me want to consider one of the smaller weight breeds....Anybody catch this or own one?

http://www.nytimes.c....e8eec5&ei=5070

#2 of 22 OFFLINE   MarkHastings

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Posted February 16 2007 - 06:28 AM

I saw a news report about these designer dogs. They had a ton of different mixed breeds. Very interesting...

Of course, being that I saw it at work (with several co-workers) I had to make the obligatory remark: "I want a cross breed between a Bulldog and a Shitzu.....a BullShit!" Posted Image

or a Shitzu and a Poodle - a ShitPoo

#3 of 22 OFFLINE   Carl Miller

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Posted February 16 2007 - 11:03 AM

They're mutts. Nothing wrong with mutts mind you, but that's what these "boutique" dogs really are except you can get a mutt for free at the local shelter instead of paying 1k for them.

Seriously dude, don't buy one of these. They take no care in selecting healthy breeding stock and just mix and match two dogs. You don't know what you'll get. As a Pug owner myself, I can tell you that if you want a Pug, get a Pug. If you want a Beagle, get a Beagle.

If you get a Puggle, you might get a dog that with the temperment of a Pug, a Beagle or neither. Same is true for the health of the dog you get which could be Pug-like, Beagle-like, neither or the worst of both breeds.

I can't speak about any of these specifically except for the Puggle. I have some friends involved in Pug Rescue and Puggles have been given up to rescue at a very high rate for many reasons which can best be summed up by saying they didn't get what they were expecting when they got one.
Carl

#4 of 22 OFFLINE   KurtEP

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Posted February 16 2007 - 11:27 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chu Gai
So I'm watching Donny Deutch the other nite, and he's got on this guy who's breeding and selling select mixed breeds of dogs at some pretty hefty prices. But I have to say, the ones he brought to the show are simply the cutest looking things and almost makes me want to consider one of the smaller weight breeds....Anybody catch this or own one?

http://www.nytimes.c....e8eec5&ei=5070

Don't ever buy a dog based on cute. My parents did that and bough a Jack Russel Terrier. Now, it's a fun, personable dog, and very intelligent. But until it was about 8 years old, you needed a team of about four people to wear it out every day. Fortunately, they had the time to kill. By far, most people wouldn't. Being around it, I can understand the rescue groups. I also have friends who own Border Collies, which have similar issues. You really need to seriously consider the personality of a dog before buying it.

And to answer your question more directly, I have no idea about a puggle, but my Sister has a few dogs of mixed thoroughbred lineage that have serious issues (personality and health). I don't know if this would be the case with these dogs, but it apparently can happen.

EDIT: Not that I think that thoroughbred wouldn't have these issues, quite the opposite, I just always guessed that cross breeding would eliminate them.
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#5 of 22 OFFLINE   Justin Lane

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Posted February 16 2007 - 11:33 AM

As an owner of two pugs, I really don't understand the puggle craze. It seems that breeders took a relatively inexpensive bread (the beagle) and mixed it with a more expensive breed (pugs) creating a large number of mutts with price tags less than a pure pug but significantly more than the common beagle.

That being said, I am dog lover and fell they should all be given wonderful homes, so if one desires a puggle, go for it, but don't try to pass it off as a new breed!

J

#6 of 22 OFFLINE   MarkHastings

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Posted February 16 2007 - 12:02 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin Lane
As an owner of two pugs, I really don't understand the puggle craze. It seems that breeders took a relatively inexpensive bread (the beagle) and mixed it with a more expensive breed (pugs) creating a large number of mutts with price tags less than a pure pug but significantly more than the common beagle.
Tell that to Tiffany's - All you're paying for is the name. The jewlery is pretty crappy, but woman go NUTS over it and will pay hundreds and hundred of $$ just for that little box.

#7 of 22 OFFLINE   Carl Miller

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Posted February 16 2007 - 12:21 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin Lane
As an owner of two pugs, I really don't understand the puggle craze. It seems that breeders took a relatively inexpensive bread (the beagle) and mixed it with a more expensive breed (pugs) creating a large number of mutts with price tags less than a pure pug but significantly more than the common beagle.

That being said, I am dog lover and fell they should all be given wonderful homes, so if one desires a puggle, go for it, but don't try to pass it off as a new breed!

J

That's exactly what they do Justin. They pass these dogs off as a new breed, as unique, special, whatever and then give them a hefty price tag...And people who buy dogs based on looks or based on what breeds are "in", buy into this stuff hook, line and sinker. It's a big business unfortunately.
Carl

#8 of 22 OFFLINE   Steve Schaffer

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Posted February 16 2007 - 02:28 PM

My mutt is the result of an accidental encounter between a purebred Welsh Corgi and what appeared to be a half-Yorkie half Poodle, I call her a Corgiterripoo. She has the herding instincts of a Corgi--just ask the cat--along with the people-pleasing of a poodle and fearlessness of the Yorky.

If I could get her cloned I would. She's pushing 13 and there's going to be a great big hole in my life when she's gone. I'll probably look for a purebred Corgi or Corgi mix when that time comes.
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#9 of 22 OFFLINE   Philip Hamm

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Posted February 17 2007 - 03:58 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Miller
They're mutts. Nothing wrong with mutts mind you, but that's what these "boutique" dogs really are except you can get a mutt for free at the local shelter instead of paying 1k for them.

Seriously dude, don't buy one of these. They take no care in selecting healthy breeding stock and just mix and match two dogs. You don't know what you'll get. As a Pug owner myself, I can tell you that if you want a Pug, get a Pug. If you want a Beagle, get a Beagle.

If you get a Puggle, you might get a dog that with the temperment of a Pug, a Beagle or neither. Same is true for the health of the dog you get which could be Pug-like, Beagle-like, neither or the worst of both breeds.

I can't speak about any of these specifically except for the Puggle. I have some friends involved in Pug Rescue and Puggles have been given up to rescue at a very high rate for many reasons which can best be summed up by saying they didn't get what they were expecting when they got one.
+1000 Preying on suckers. My mixed breed dog came from the animal shelter a few counties over, I found him through friends. He's incredible. My purebred was adopted, also found through friends.

There are so may great mixed breed dogs available at places like www.petfinder.com it's just plain assinine to get bamboozled by these hucksters and charlatains selling these "designer dogs". Save a dog from being euthanized, don't throw your money away and encourage this fraud.
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#10 of 22 OFFLINE   Philip Hamm

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Posted February 17 2007 - 04:00 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkHastings
Tell that to Tiffany's - All you're paying for is the name. The jewlery is pretty crappy, but woman go NUTS over it and will pay hundreds and hundred of $$ just for that little box.
Um... No.Posted Image
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#11 of 22 OFFLINE   MarkHastings

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Posted February 17 2007 - 08:17 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip Hamm
+1000 Preying on suckers. My mixed breed dog came from the animal shelter a few counties over, I found him through friends. He's incredible.
but you never know what you're getting in a mutt. I would assume that these 'designer' dogs have some sort of breeding control.

And besides, these are really marketed toward celebs. Just like those $1,000 iPod cases (that are jewel encrusted). If I made billions of dollars a year, I would pay $1,000 for an iPod case and wouldn't care about what people thought.

My HT could have fed an entire village in Africa for a year (so could probably most of yours), so isn't it wrong for someone to say to us "Why not just buy a HT in a box and save yourself hundred and hundred of dollars!"?

#12 of 22 OFFLINE   CRyan

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Posted February 17 2007 - 11:01 AM

I like the puggles. I have two friends that each have a pug and while cute and well tempered have serious health problems. Ever seen a poor pug with a detached eye?

As far as I am concerned giving another option will loosen up the gene pool a bit. Nothing wrong with a new breed being made available. If popular enough, tracing breed history and animal heritage will become just as anal for these new breeds.

How does everyone think our current breeds became available? They did not just happen out that way. WE made them that way! So we are moving on to the next IMO.

You can get now puggles with the proper paperwork if there is concern for this.

#13 of 22 OFFLINE   Carl Miller

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Posted February 17 2007 - 04:35 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkHastings
but you never know what you're getting in a mutt. I would assume that these 'designer' dogs have some sort of breeding control.

Why would you assume this? There are no controls. Real breeders carefully select and screen their breeding stock. Real breeders barely make any money from breeding at all. The people who sell these boutique dogs pick their breeding stock recklessly and with no thought to it whatsoever. They're con artists, plain and simple. They don't care about the dogs they produce or the people who buy them.

Quote:
I like the puggles. I have two friends that each have a pug and while cute and well tempered have serious health problems. Ever seen a poor pug with a detached eye?

How does everyone think our current breeds became available? They did not just happen out that way. WE made them that way! So we are moving on to the next IMO.

You can get now puggles with the proper paperwork if there is concern for this.

If you're talking about a Pugs eye coming out of it's socket, that's a rare occurence. Well bred Pugs are quite sturdy and hardy though like all breeds of dog, they have their own unique set of genetic health problems. Pugs are very popular today, are diluted as a breed and are suffering the consequences in terms of a decline in the overall health and stability of the breed in total.

There is a difference between how we got to breeds today vs. the people selling Puggles and other mixed breed dogs. All breeds of dogs were engineered essentially, toward a specific goal or ideal. Some of those goals were based on looks, other goals were based on function such as work....These boutique dogs are being produced randomly and haphazardly based solely on looks and solely to make money.

However todays recognized breeds were carefully bred over time by a very small group of people. They were bred in such a way so that the intended breed was refined constantly until the goal was met. The boutique dogs are not bred in this manner at all. The goal is to make money, nothing else and they are not seeking to truly create new breeds. They're calling them new breeds as a selling point but there is no development and no refinement of these dogs being done in any scientific or reasoned fashion.

Regarding paperwork..Puggles are not an AKC recognized breed of dog thus any paperwork received with one of these dogs doesn't mean a thing toward their legitimacy as a breed at least in America.
Carl

#14 of 22 OFFLINE   MarkHastings

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Posted February 18 2007 - 02:17 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Miller
Why would you assume this? There are no controls. Real breeders carefully select and screen their breeding stock. Real breeders barely make any money from breeding at all. The people who sell these boutique dogs pick their breeding stock recklessly and with no thought to it whatsoever. They're con artists, plain and simple. They don't care about the dogs they produce or the people who buy them.
Like I said, I saw this news report a few months back and according to the report, it sure sounded like they were being bred with care.

But I'm sure puggles are just like any other breed of dog. Some are breeding them carelessly and others aren't.

#15 of 22 OFFLINE   Carl Miller

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Posted February 18 2007 - 07:43 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkHastings
Like I said, I saw this news report a few months back and according to the report, it sure sounded like they were being bred with care.

But I'm sure puggles are just like any other breed of dog. Some are breeding them carelessly and others aren't.

I understand what you're saying Mark. But it takes many many years to develop a new breed of dog, usually several decades in fact before the goal (in appearance, health and temperment) are met. Those seriously developing new breeds don't sell the dogs they produce while working toward that goal. They're either kept and given good homes and good lives, or given away to someone who will give them a good home and good life.

Basically, what this comes down to is that Puggles are relatively new to the market and widely available for sale after just a few years of being "created". While there may indeed be people actively seeking to create a new breed in the Puggle, those that are involved in this aren't selling them now because no standard and no goal has been established or reached whereby a Puggle can be produced with any consistancy in terms of appearance, health and temperment.
Carl

#16 of 22 OFFLINE   MarkHastings

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Posted February 18 2007 - 08:28 AM

So then what's the difference between getting a Puggle and a pound dog? If it's the price, then that's nothing for those who can afford it.

#17 of 22 OFFLINE   Philip Hamm

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Posted February 18 2007 - 01:31 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkHastings
but you never know what you're getting in a mutt. I would assume that these 'designer' dogs have some sort of breeding control.
That would be an incorrect assumption. Neither the AKC, nor any other organization, sanctions these pups. They are no different than a pound mutt. Which can be a great dog, but not worth the exorbidant fess.

Regarding "papers", the Star Registry can give me papers saying that a star is named after me and charge $100 for it....... Doesn't mean squat, just like the "papers" for these adorable mutts.
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#18 of 22 OFFLINE   Philip Hamm

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Posted February 18 2007 - 01:35 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkHastings
So then what's the difference between getting a Puggle and a pound dog? If it's the price, then that's nothing for those who can afford it.
The difference is not price, it's whether or not you're getting flim-flammed by a con artist.
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#19 of 22 OFFLINE   Arthur S

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Posted February 20 2007 - 12:57 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chu Gai
So I'm watching Donny Deutch the other nite, and he's got on this guy who's breeding and selling select mixed breeds of dogs at some pretty hefty prices. But I have to say, the ones he brought to the show are simply the cutest looking things and almost makes me want to consider one of the smaller weight breeds....Anybody catch this or own one?

http://www.nytimes.c....e8eec5&ei=5070

Hi Chu Gai

I was at my doctors office a while ago...and one of her partners had the sweetest and cutest little dog that I have ever had the chance to play with (for about 1 minute) while it got loose with its leash still on... in the doctors office...my doctor had also purchased one for her 92 year old father...she had a picture of the puppy sitting on her fathers lap...I asked her what kind of dog it was...she said it was a cavalier king charles spaniel...the one that got loose on its leash came up to the examining table and was completely quiet and just let me pet it and hold it and put its adorable little head on the attachment at the end of the examining table that people use to step up on the examining table...and just rested its head on that little platform so that I could continue to rub its head while it rested its head on that little platform that i use to step up onto the examining table...I hope that this business about the attachment at the end of the examining table is not too confusing...it is hard to find the exact right words for that thing...in any case, the cavalier king charles spaniel is one of the sweetest, best behaved, calmest tempered dogs I know about. Thanks for bringing the original link to my attention...my doctor recommended puggles as a good, but less expensive alternative to the cavalier king charles spaniel.

#20 of 22 OFFLINE   Grant B

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Posted February 20 2007 - 06:19 AM

We have a pair of Chesky Terriers and I have to say they are as wonderful as they are cute.
You might want to look into the breed
Grant

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