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subwoofer placement


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29 replies to this topic

#1 of 30 familyguy

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Posted February 03 2007 - 04:18 PM

hey guys

i am now trying to also figure out where i should place my subwoofer

heres a very rough drawing as you can see of course! so i have a couch on the left and back. where should i place the sub. spot 1,2, or 3. any other spots you think are good let me know. also the back is open. in other words there are walls left right and in the front and alot of open space behind.
thanks


#2 of 30 Arthur S

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Posted February 03 2007 - 04:39 PM

Hi Jup

If you can place the subwoofer in spot number 2 it looks like you will have what they call "nearfield placement"...this usually provides considerable impact at the listening position. Please keep in touch.

#3 of 30 familyguy

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Posted February 04 2007 - 06:02 AM

thanks for the response but what is nearfield placement?

#4 of 30 JohnRice

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Posted February 04 2007 - 07:16 AM

Nearfield placement means the sub is close to the listening position, so it needs less output and isn't likely to be affected as much by surroundings. Sounds like a solid theory, but I personally despise nearfield placement. The reason? It is only good for one listening position. If you move a couple feet away on the couch or to another listening position, the bass level drops significantly. Doubling your distance to the sub will reduce its volume by 75%.

My personal recommendation would be to the right of the TV, or if that isn't feasible, in position #3. The reason? The distance from the listening position to the sub remains relatively equal at all listening positions. I also can't stand the sub behind the listening position, though a lot of people disagree with that. There are other factors to take into consideration, but those would be my starting points.

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#5 of 30 Arthur S

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Posted February 04 2007 - 08:14 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnRice
Nearfield placement means the sub is close to the listening position, so it needs less output and isn't likely to be affected as much by surroundings. Sounds like a solid theory, but I personally despise nearfield placement. The reason? It is only good for one listening position. If you move a couple feet away on the couch or to another listening position, the bass level drops significantly. Doubling your distance to the sub will reduce its volume by 75%.

My personal recommendation would be to the right of the TV, or if that isn't feasible, in position #3. The reason? The distance from the listening position to the sub remains relatively equal at all listening positions. I also can't stand the sub behind the listening position, though a lot of people disagree with that. There are other factors to take into consideration, but those would be my starting points.


Hi John

Thanks for contributing to this thread...I experienced nearfield placement and I liked it a lot...if I am not mistaken...nearfield placement virtually eliminates most major frequency response variations...at the recent high end show in Las Vegas, the HSU demo was a huge hit...people were leaving other high-end demos to come back to the HSU demo, largely due to the presence of the HSU MBM-12 (Mid Bass Module), which can deliver 120db at the listening position...I only wish I was living in a situation where I could supplement my pair of HSU VTF-3HOs + Turbos with the MBM which is about $400 plus shipping.

Hope you enjoy the Superbowl

#6 of 30 familyguy

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Posted February 04 2007 - 08:34 AM

i guess i could put it in #3 im just scared that it might be too far away?

#7 of 30 Arthur S

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Posted February 04 2007 - 09:08 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by familyguy
i guess i could put it in #3 im just scared that it might be too far away?

Hi Jup

Maybe you should just try both positions and decide which postion you like better.

#8 of 30 familyguy

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Posted February 04 2007 - 10:34 AM

the reason that i cant do that is because my room is in the process of getting built. so i cant really listen to it yet and i wanted to know the position now so that i could run the rca cable in the wall. any more thoughts?

thanks

#9 of 30 Bill_Weinreich

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Posted February 04 2007 - 12:06 PM

It all will ultimately come down to listining. If it were me, I would run seperate cables to different locations (at least 2&3). Cable is cheap in the scheme of things and will give you some flexibility if you need to change.
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#10 of 30 JohnRice

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Posted February 04 2007 - 12:21 PM

Quote:
nearfield placement virtually eliminates most major frequency response variations
As I already pointed out, yet you completely ignore the (what I consider) significant down side, which is that moving even slightly from the main listening position causes a considerable change in the volume of the sub. I prefer to find the best, more distant location, so standing waves are at a minimum, but the bass is more evenly distributed around the listening area.

Quote:
i guess i could put it in #3 im just scared that it might be too far away?
It is further than the mains, but in the system I have with the Hsu subs, they are a good 25 ft away and probably 10 further away than the speakers. My approach is this. This whole audio thing is nothing new to me. I've been into it for 30 years and have continually found that a setup which "Wows" you in the moment often becomes tiresome afterward. Sometimes people call it the "morning after" syndrome.

After you finish turning the sub up too loud and playing every explosion filled DVD you can find, you have to live with the system and not get tired of it, or be able to move around the room a bit, have people over and so on. That is where I come to the conclusions that I do. Notice I don't push you to buy the same sub brand I own in every possible thread. I try to consider all factors, plusses and minuses, without conveniently disregarding certain ones. All of this considered, the optimum placement is usually in a front corner, somewhat away from the main listening areas. Yes, this has an increased chance of standing waves and requires higher output, but there are many other reasons it is typically best. Ask Ron Stimpson (of SVS) about this, he will typically tell you the same.

I really wouldn't sweat it being further away, but it depends on so many factors, not the least of which is which sub you choose.


Quote:
If it were me, I would run seperate cables to different locations (at least 2&3).
That's your best advice.

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#11 of 30 familyguy

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Posted February 04 2007 - 01:03 PM

thanks alot. i really dont want to waste money on a second cable so i think im gonna go with #3. thanks for the advice

#12 of 30 familyguy

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Posted February 04 2007 - 01:52 PM

oh i just realized that there is a chair about 5 feet in front of spot 3. will this effect it?

#13 of 30 Arthur S

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Posted February 04 2007 - 02:27 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by familyguy
thanks alot. i really dont want to waste money on a second cable so i think im gonna go with #3. thanks for the advice

Hi Jup

I don't remember exactly how much I paid for my Radio Shack subwoofer cable, however, it is not very much, and $10 or so should not make any difference in your decision. You really need to try nearfield placement...and an extra subwoofer cable will come in handy in the future. Please keep in touch.

#14 of 30 familyguy

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Posted February 04 2007 - 02:42 PM

arthur thanks for all the info. my worry is if i try the nearfield placement wont the bass be to close and actually get annoying. i mean when it is almost beside you wont it mask alot of the sound from the rest of the speakers?

also Subwoofer Interconnects are not that cheap especially for a 20 foot length. i plan on buying from monoprice however so that really isnt a problem.

#15 of 30 familyguy

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Posted February 04 2007 - 03:38 PM

any thoughts i really want to get this issue over with

thanks

#16 of 30 Arthur S

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Posted February 04 2007 - 03:53 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by familyguy
arthur thanks for all the info. my worry is if i try the nearfield placement wont the bass be to close and actually get annoying. i mean when it is almost beside you wont it mask alot of the sound from the rest of the speakers?

also Subwoofer Interconnects are not that cheap especially for a 20 foot length. i plan on buying from monoprice however so that really isnt a problem.


Hi Jup

All I can tell you is that when I experienced nearfield placement it made the main speakers sound great...not overpowering at all...you can adjust the volume of the nearfield speaker pretty easily because it is only a few feet away...don't worry about subwoofer cables...just order the HSU VTF-3MK2 before they are all gone...also, if you don't like nearfield placement the VTF-3MK2 is so powerful that you can place it anywhere you like and you should be satisfied...especially if you get 2 of them...please keep in touch.

PS I really think they are a great value at the $612 delivered price.

#17 of 30 familyguy

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Posted February 04 2007 - 04:00 PM

thanks but i think thats out of my price range. one more thing however. if i choose the near field placement will the couches i have there kinda block the subs sound. the sub may not get a big enough opening and the sides of the couches may cover the sub up a bit. should it still be fine?

#18 of 30 JohnRice

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Posted February 05 2007 - 04:20 AM

Quote:
oh i just realized that there is a chair about 5 feet in front of spot 3. will this effect it?
Not really a problem, except anyone sitting in that chair will get higher sub levels when it is playing.


Quote:
my worry is if i try the nearfield placement wont the bass be to close and actually get annoying.
That is exactly my point, plus the sub level will be wildly inconsistent depending on where you sit. I'll put it this way, if you are aperson who thinks those booming car subwoofers you can hear a block away are cool, nearfield placement is the way to go. If not, find a more distant, more evenly distributed place. Just be aware, it does increase the chance of standing waves and drops at certain frequencies in certain listening positions. I personally find that far more preferable than having my stew shaken.

Quote:
if i choose the near field placement will the couches i have there kinda block the subs sound.
That's not really a problem since the sub frequencies are not particularly directional. Just don't bury the sub where it can't breathe. The general rule it that the three closest walls are an significantly different distances. #3 should suit that well enough, though not quite as good as being maybe 3 feet in from a front corner. Still, you can't place everything perfectly all the time.

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#19 of 30 Brian_cyberbri

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Posted February 05 2007 - 10:01 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnRice
That is exactly my point, plus the sub level will be wildly inconsistent depending on where you sit. I'll put it this way, if you are aperson who thinks those booming car subwoofers you can hear a block away are cool, nearfield placement is the way to go.
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Have you actually tried the MBM in nearfield placement?
I assume you have because of your definitive statements, but I know what happens when you assume...

#20 of 30 JohnRice

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Posted February 05 2007 - 10:51 AM

Quote:
Have you actually tried the MBM in nearfield placement?
Actually, I have not tried that exact model in nearfield placement, but if you claim Hsu has developed a sub (or mid-bass module) which is capable of defying the laws of physics, and for only $500, I'll have to take your word for it. My problem with nearfield placement is this. Let's say the main listening spot is 2.5 ft from the sub. The perceived output from the sub will drop 50% if you increase your distance by the square root of 2, which means if you move only 1 foot further away, the sub will drop 50%. If you move to 5ft, it will drop 75%. Sure, nearfield placement will shake the hell out of you and virtually eliminate standing waves, just don't budge an inch or the output and how it balances with the rest of the system will wildly fluctuate.

The Hybrid System

The Music Part: Emotiva XSP-1, Thiel CS 3.6, Emotiva XPA-2, Marantz SA8004, Emotiva ERC-3, SVS PB-12 Plus 2

The Surround Part: Sherbourn PT-7030, Thiel SCS3, Emotiva XPA-5, Polk & Emotiva Surrounds.



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