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LCoS vs DLP


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#1 of 20 OFFLINE   MikeCB

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Posted January 09 2007 - 08:01 AM

I'm in the market for a big screen tv under $2K and am leaning towards either DLP or LCoS. The DLP I've been considering is the Samsung HL-S5687W, but I was wondering how LCoS compares in contrast and picture quality. Black levels are an important consideration and I've read some reviews which say they are better on DLP but some say they are better on LCoS, so I'm a little stumped. Can anyone offer some insight?

#2 of 20 OFFLINE   Ed Moxley

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Posted January 09 2007 - 10:23 AM

The black levels have improved on the LCoS tvs, with the newer generations.
DLP tvs, have the rainbow effect, with a lot of people.
The absolute best picture I've ever seen, on any tv, was on an LCoS, with a good HD signal going to it...........
Good luck with whatever you decide on.
Samsung HL61A750 (LED DLP)            Onkyo TX-SR805
Oppo BDP-83 Blu ray                                  Polk Audio LSi9
Polk Audio LSiC                                  Sony SS-MB100H
SVS PC12-NSD (Sub)                       ...

#3 of 20 OFFLINE   MikeCB

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Posted January 09 2007 - 10:29 AM

That's one thing that concerned me, the rainbow effect. But does this set have a 3-chip design intended to reduce it?

#4 of 20 OFFLINE   Ed Moxley

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Posted January 09 2007 - 02:18 PM

The Samsung that's listed in your post, has only one chip, and the color wheel.
http://www.samsung.c....5687_final.pdf
Samsung HL61A750 (LED DLP)            Onkyo TX-SR805
Oppo BDP-83 Blu ray                                  Polk Audio LSi9
Polk Audio LSiC                                  Sony SS-MB100H
SVS PC12-NSD (Sub)                       ...

#5 of 20 OFFLINE   CoolCatbro

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Posted January 09 2007 - 04:04 PM

Samsung HL-S5679W 56" LED 1080P High Definition DLP TV

no bulbs, no color wheel (no rainbow effect) and probably will be coming down in price post CES and throughout the year. 1080P ability too. approx. $2500 now though. you mentioned under $2K.

getting a lot of 5 star ratings. maybe buy online and save the tax money?

the shipping bumps it up $200approx. So thats almost 30% over your PRange...

I'm saving up for one, maybe by April... with bulb costs and other benefits it'll pay to wait a couple months.

#6 of 20 OFFLINE   Joseph Bolus

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Posted January 09 2007 - 04:22 PM

The Samsung HL-S5679W 56" LED 1080P High Definition DLP TV is certainly the most innovative RPTV introduced in the past two years, but the current model provides only "so-so" contrast ratio according to most reviewers. It's suspected that future models will include an "auto-iris" feature like many of the more recent LCD-based RPTV's to help out with the black levels. Other than that, it's *fantastic*. The three red-green-blue high powered LED's energize the single-chip DLP providing the world's first totally solid state RPTV. No bulb to replace, no color wheel, and no fan! Great stuff!!

Here's a link to the CNET Review of the set:
http://reviews.cnet.....-31641984.html






Joseph
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#7 of 20 OFFLINE   MikeCB

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Posted January 10 2007 - 12:15 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Moxley
The Samsung that's listed in your post, has only one chip, and the color wheel.
http://www.samsung.c....5687_final.pdf

Maybe I'm thinking of something else then. There's something they've put into recent DLPs that reduce rainbox effect, but I forget what exactly.


And here's the LCoS (specifically DILA) I was considering:

http://www.amazon.co....&s=electronics

If anyone has used this before, how does it compare?

#8 of 20 OFFLINE   CoolCatbro

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Posted January 10 2007 - 12:31 AM

Review rating by users on that link was:
(10 being best) 8.2 and that was at a $4,000 price point.
1 review - 10
4 reviews- 9
1 review- 8
1 review- 7
1 review- 5
the 5 brought the average rating down. the majority is rated at 9.
this editor, at 7.2 rating, was just one subjective viewer, again thats at $4,000 price point for this review too. This same TV is now touching the $2500. For $2500 what would the editor have said?

maybe I'm a bit over excited, not trying to defend one brand or another.
whats exciting is the led lighting. IMO.

Its a huge win for the DLP technology. The competition is playing catch-up.
I really thought for a moment DLP was screwed because of the LCD size increase and no bulbs.....and HDTV's profit margins shrinking, in general. Their going for quantity now.

But now! a big score for DLP. 1080P and no rainbow effect, no bulbs.
Does it get any better?

I'm just guessing a DLP/Led will be had for under $2K soon.
of course thats music to my ears. my TV sucks really, really bad....

its so old.....I still get MTV without commercials....heheheePosted Image

#9 of 20 OFFLINE   Ed Moxley

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Posted January 10 2007 - 02:30 AM

MikeCB............
That is a very good price, for a 1080p JVC. Even with shipping...........
My receiver, cd player, dual cassette player, and 36" CRT tv are all JVC. I've never had any problems with any of them. Receiver and tv are about 5 yrs. old, and the other stuff is about 13-14 yrs. old. The receiver before this one, was a JVC Pro Logic, and I used it for about 8-9 yrs., before giving it to my stepfather. I want the 61" JVC 1080p HD-ILA. I want it bad! Posted Image

To my way of thinking, you can't go wrong with that tv. After you get it, you should have Gregg Loewen (admin or mod here), or one of his co-workers, ISF calibrate it for you, to make it perfect........
Good luck!
Samsung HL61A750 (LED DLP)            Onkyo TX-SR805
Oppo BDP-83 Blu ray                                  Polk Audio LSi9
Polk Audio LSiC                                  Sony SS-MB100H
SVS PC12-NSD (Sub)                       ...

#10 of 20 OFFLINE   Leo Kerr

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Posted January 10 2007 - 07:23 AM

As an aside, just because there is no color wheel in an LED-based single-chip DLP unit, there is still a strong possibility of rainbows, as it is still a sequential color device.

Until you go to three DLP chips, there will be rainbows. DILA has recognized that a long time ago, and after about the first few concept units, they decided that the cost/benefit of going with three DILA panels exceeded the liabilities of the color wheel design.

Leo

#11 of 20 OFFLINE   MikeCB

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Posted January 10 2007 - 10:34 AM

How do I tell if a particular model has one or three chips? Which ones by Samsung, for instance, have three?

#12 of 20 OFFLINE   Ed Moxley

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Posted January 10 2007 - 12:02 PM

You can tell by going to their site, and looking up that model number. If it has three chips, it will say so in the list of features. Since that will be a big selling feature, you can believe they'll list it........... Posted Image
Samsung HL61A750 (LED DLP)            Onkyo TX-SR805
Oppo BDP-83 Blu ray                                  Polk Audio LSi9
Polk Audio LSiC                                  Sony SS-MB100H
SVS PC12-NSD (Sub)                       ...

#13 of 20 OFFLINE   Robert Marc

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Posted January 10 2007 - 12:38 PM

Take a look at the Sony SXRDs too. They are coming down in price a little bit. Awesome picture and no rainbow effect. The SXRD is Sony's version of Lycos and has the three chips. I agree that the led's have a very promisng future.

#14 of 20 OFFLINE   garycase2001

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Posted January 10 2007 - 12:45 PM

"... How do I tell if a particular model has one or three chips? Which ones by Samsung, for instance, have three? " ==> NONE have three; and likely won't for at least the foreseeable future. There are 3-chip front projectors; but you add an extra zero to the price to get them Posted Image

The LED-based models are, however, essentially immune to the rainbow effect. While it's true the picture is still being generated by showing sequential colors, the frequency of the LED's is FAR above that of a color wheel. I haven't seen published specifications, but the LED's can switch on/off fast enough to easily eliminate any visible rainbow effect => the best color wheels rotate at 14,000 rpm; I suspect the LEDs are switching colors at the equivalent of perhaps a 600,000 to 1,000,000 rpm color wheel !! There's a good white paper on the technology from last year that provides a summary of how the LED light source is used with DLP's at the www dlp dot com site => the full URL after the "www dlp dot com" is "/dlp_technology/images/dynamic/white_papers/167_LED_TV_white_paper.pdf" (I can't post a full URL to that paper due to site rules here).

HOWEVER ... it is true that any 3-chip design (such as all of the LCOS sets) is showing all the colors all the time (i.e. no color switching), so from that perspective that's a superior technology [which is, of course, why the very-expensive DLP front projectors use 3-chips; and why there will undoubtedly be 3-chip DLP RPTV's at some point in the future].

#15 of 20 OFFLINE   JGiampa

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Posted January 11 2007 - 07:38 AM

I have a Samsung HL-S5688W and absolutely love it. I can't see the RBE if I try. I think that the new DLPs that are out have diminished the RBE siginificantly. I can definitely testify for Samsung.

I have no experience with LCoS so I can't help you there.

There are some differences in the "87" model and the "88" model. It would be best to go to the samsung website and make sure you don't want the features that the 88 has.


Joe

#16 of 20 OFFLINE   Arthur S

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Posted January 11 2007 - 07:57 AM

Hi guys...according to John Kotches, the good old fashioned DLP has better contrast and sharpness using very very fine test patterns...he is a reviewer of all kinds of equipment and has thousands and thousands of posts on various Forums... and has a very high end system...2 Velodyne DD-15s...and can choose from the best of everything...he has about 15 years experience at an almost professional level with HT/AV...do a search and see what you come up with...I have a lot of confidence in him...he knows so much about DLP...wobulation...screen size relation to visibility of wobulation...way way more than I know...Kotches is like an Ed McMullen of just about all aspects of HT/AV...he is on a par with Allan Jayne...Chris Wiggles...and then some...with all due respects to Allan Jayne and Chris Wiggles...all in my humble opinion of course...the $1500 Phillips DLP I saw in BJs wholesale looked every bit as good as the Sony SXRD...this is a lot of splitting hairs if you ask me...

Happy New Year

#17 of 20 OFFLINE   Hanson

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Posted January 11 2007 - 01:48 PM

I almost didn't buy my Samsung DLP because of RBE, but in the end, I was swayed by the experts -- three of the regular calibrators in the AVS forum owned Samsung DLP sets and the HLS series were praised for having almost perfect color reproduction with any color push typical in just about any other set.

In the end, I can see rainbows, but under very specific conditions, so they aren't noticable with normal viewing. In the end, there isn't a lot about this set that I don't like, and the fact that it makes a kick-ass computer monitor is a huge plus (I really don't mind the little overscan that exists in the HLS6187W -- frankly, I don't see what the big fuss is about).

#18 of 20 OFFLINE   Gruson

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Posted January 11 2007 - 02:59 PM

Get the 70" JVC DILA deal that Tigerdirect has going on.

You can get it for $2499 shipped, no tax.

DILA is LCOS and awesome.

You cannot beat this deal.

#19 of 20 OFFLINE   Hanson

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Posted January 11 2007 - 03:31 PM

Isn't it $2799? I mean, it's still an awesome deal but $2499 would have been a steal.

#20 of 20 OFFLINE   Gruson

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Posted January 11 2007 - 03:57 PM

Check out the master thread over at AVS.

You can get it for $2499 still!

My 65" CRT HDTV recently got burn in so I am thinking of buying it.