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Which do you prefer - and why? DLP, LCD, Plasma or Projection?


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#1 of 75 captaincrash

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Posted December 12 2006 - 05:13 AM

Which do you prefer - and why? DLP, LCD, Plasma or Projection?

This is intended as a little question - deliberately unstructured to some extent as it addresses something that sort of nags at me when I walk into any HDTV store... IE... I walk in and glance around at the gorgous plasmas then muse over their single use lifespans and wonder a bit how they might look at their half lifes...then I look at the LCD and stare looking for the ghosting images, then I look at the slightly less intense images on DLP and appraise how much less they cost for the slightly larger screens compared to direct view LCD or plasma... then I look at the few projection setups and wonder... gee, that IS gonna be the biggest screen but how much BETTER will the image be in a really really dark room? Will the picture improve enough to compete against the other display formats?

EVERYTHING IS SUCH A COMPROMISE! I see the 103" Plasma from Panasonic (as I recollect) for $70,000.... and I sometimes begin to wonder how much a 103" Plasma will sell for in 5-7 years? Tecnology leaps forward every 18 months... right? SO ... 3 to 4 cycles will sweep by in 5 to 7 years and I would guess that a 103" plasma will drop from $70K to maybe 50K, then 35K, and in the 3rd cycle it might hit 25K... then at 7 years it might hit ... 20K??? Or dare I think it goes sub 20 to 15K??? I remember a 70" plasma when it was $100,000 some time ago - and now what do they sell for?

Shoot at that rate - it makes sense to defer the purchase and throw away the plasma when it is somewhat past its' half life... that is ... once you can identify the price point you are will ing to "recycle" every few years!!!

I sometimes think I am still experinceing some confusion on the matter ...
SO..... Which do you prefer - and why? DLP, LCD, Plasma or Projection?

#2 of 75 Jim Mcc

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Posted December 12 2006 - 08:42 AM

Definitely front projector. The low cost, image quality, and HUGE screen size is simply UNBELIEVABLE. You can now buy a quality 720p front projector for less than $1,000, and have a screen size of at least 100". The Optoma HD70 is priced at $999 MSRP, and the Mitsubishi HD1000 is priced at $995 MSRP. Both are 720p DLP projectors. And yes, I prefer DLP. I like the look
of DLP better, and I think LCD has more potential problems.

#3 of 75 John Garcia

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Posted December 12 2006 - 10:30 AM

I personally HATE DLP. I have yet to see one that I do not see the "rainbow" effect on. Some are better than others, but so far they all exhibit this problem which is extremely distracting to me.

LCD is taking over the 42"-50" market and plasma cannot compete when it comes to resolution vs LCD. Plasma has the edge with brightness and contrast though, but cost vs size, LCD is going to come down quicker than Plasma.
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#4 of 75 captaincrash

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Posted December 12 2006 - 12:41 PM

John...

... I think Jim was referring to LCD front projectors and not the rear projection LCD. OR.../ is it ME who is mistaken? DO both LCD techniques use the spinning color wheel in both rear projection and front projection?

AND... today I went back to the local HD TV specialist store to gather more impressions and info. If seems the 103" Plasma is a demonstration piece with no info on buying even though they have cited a price of $70,000. Then... the 70" gas plasma screens that they were thinking of selling (LG in this instance) will probably be sold in January or February for about $15,000. Currently a 60" gas plasma is on display and not so bad for price (forgot how much it was since I disregarded it immediately since my Epson is already 57").

And - I looked carefully at a 90+" inch fixed screen 1.1 gain screen with a 1080p Sony that was priced at $10,000 but on sale for $6K. AND I looked at a Panasonic 720p on a retractible screen. I am still a bit mixed between the various formats - but in a heavily darkened room the two front projectors were OK. And it was in fact the entire theater layout that I found myself impressed with. They had a dedicated 18x15 theater set up with the 90"/Sony projector - and a smaller multipurpose layout with the 720p screen. I think that ultimately a front projector in a nicely appointed and mildly dramatic theater would serve me best.

Now if only I could settle between 720p or 1080p? I am not convinced of the need for 1080p.Posted Image

#5 of 75 Adam Gregorich

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Posted December 12 2006 - 01:37 PM

I am going to move this thread to the display area.

#6 of 75 Mark-P

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Posted December 12 2006 - 02:08 PM

I'll put in a vote for DLP. Of the three it is the newest technology and I think it delivers spectacular results.

Quote:
DO both LCD techniques use the spinning color wheel in both rear projection and front projection?

LCD doesn't use a color wheel in any setup. DLP technology has the color wheel.

Quote:
I personally HATE DLP. I have yet to see one that I do not see the "rainbow" effect on. Some are better than others, but so far they all exhibit this problem which is extremely distracting to me.

It definitely affects some people more than others. I can see the effect whenever I quickly avert my eyes, but I have gotten used to it and am not bothered by it. It's not as though you are sitting staring at the screen and the rainbow effect pops out all over the place. It is only when you look away quickly that you see the effect. I suppose if you are the type of person who has "shifty eyes" you might have a real problem ;-)

#7 of 75 Hanson

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Posted December 13 2006 - 02:37 AM

DLP is my choice because it gives you the biggest screen for the least amount of money. The picture is spectacular. DLP RP has two issues -- 1) Rainbow effect, 2) Geometery issues related to curved mirrors. The former is infrequent enough that I can just ignore it. The latter only really shows up with 4:3 material because the right window box flares out a bit at the bottom. But these are minor compared to plasma and LCD problems.

For all the PC and VG stuff I have running, I'd be apprehensive enough about burn-in that I would avoid plasma. I was so paranoid about burn-in with my previous CRT RP set that I turned down the contrast way down and would be paranoid about pausing the screen to go the the bathroom. Now, if I pause on the DLP, I can go to the store and not worry at all about burn-in. Plus, a 60" plasma costs more than twice that of a DLP set, uses more energy, and is heavier.

They simply don't make 61" LCD panels on the consumer level. So for me, DLP was a no brainer (LCoS was in the running, but the JVC sets had build quality issues and the Sony's did not have adjustable screen size for the PC inputs). If I was interested in a 50" set, I may have done more research.

Bigger is simply better. There's no point in buying a 50" 1080p set with the best picture when you're more than 5 feet from the screen. For a 9 foot vewing distance, a 60" set with lesser picture quality is preferable for the size alone. Actually, for 9 feet, 70" would have been even better, but it was out of my price range.

#8 of 75 Jordan_E

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Posted December 13 2006 - 03:26 AM

I have the Optoma HD70 and a 100" screen. PS3 and Toshi HD DVD player. 'Nuff for me!
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#9 of 75 Phil Iturralde

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Posted December 13 2006 - 06:24 AM

Quote:
Which do you prefer - and why? DLP, LCD, Plasma or Projection?
1080p DLP! Lived with a 1080p DLP setup since Feb. 2006 and I've had over 30+ different people (family & friends) come over for my once or twice a month Friday NITE DVDs presentations (usually no more than 8 - 10 @ a time) and just one** out of 30+ saw some RBE on my previous Toshiba 56HM195 1080p, ... but, ... he** didn't notice any RBE on my new Toshiba 62HM196 1080p! (** This friend owns the Samsung HL-S5687W 1080p DLP)

So, as noted by Hanson Yoo noted above, ... DLP presently leads in size performance vs. price, ... which is also recognized by the various HD trade magazines.

Personally, I chose DLP because I wanted to see a very crystal clear, smooth with outstanding colors (because of the inky blacks), detail w/3D-like depth (HDTV and HD DVDs) large picture.

WIRED Magazine writes about the Toshiba 62HM196 ...

Quote:
The picture quality is remarkable, ... Color accuracy is superb ...

Excellent A/V quality. Straightforward remote and on-screen menus. Best. Value. Ever.

Select my 62HM196 link below in my signature to see some 4MP digital pic's ...

.... a) HD DVD - Aeon Flux - 1080i > 1080p;
.... b) SD DVD - Digital Video Essentials - 480p upconverted to 1080i > 1080p;
.... c) Non-HD Digital Cable - KRON4 CH. 144-2 - 480i > 1080p
.... d) HD Digital Cable - ABC HD CH 117-1 720p > 1080p

FYI: Read my Calibration & Subjective 62HM1M196 review

Have fun deciding,
Phil
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#10 of 75 Kevin C Brown

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Posted December 13 2006 - 12:19 PM

Plasma. I haven't liked LCD (flat panel or rear projection) because of the worse blacks and contrast. They also both have a more limited viewing angle. And plasma colors are typically more accurate. Some LCD displays still have issues with motion too.

Don't like DLP because of the rainbow effect.

LCOS is viable, but they don't have a 42" display yet. If I was going to get a 50" or larger unit, and I didn't mind the depth, I'd definitely look into Sony.

I'm not a projector person. I want everything in 1 box.

With that being said, LCD is catching up. The Sony XBR2 displays and the Sharp D90's really do give the best plasmas a run for their money. But I don't think that comparable performing LCDs are as cheap as plasmas ... yet.
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#11 of 75 captaincrash

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Posted December 14 2006 - 04:18 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin C Brown
Plasma. I haven't liked LCD (flat panel or rear projection) because of the worse blacks and contrast. They also both have a more limited viewing angle. And plasma colors are typically more accurate. Some LCD displays still have issues with motion too.

Don't like DLP because of the rainbow effect.

LCOS is viable, but they don't have a 42" display yet. If I was going to get a 50" or larger unit, and I didn't mind the depth, I'd definitely look into Sony.

I'm not a projector person. I want everything in 1 box.

With that being said, LCD is catching up. The Sony XBR2 displays and the Sharp D90's really do give the best plasmas a run for their money. But I don't think that comparable performing LCDs are as cheap as plasmas ... yet.

The Sony XBR2 displays - if I am not mistaken are using a 3 LCD panel projection method to completely elimenate the color wheel. This was originally introduced Epson in their Livingstation HDTV... and prior to that it was introduced in their portable business projectors which for many years were dominant in that market for the same performance reasons.

I bought a 57" Livingstation in part because I'm a digital photography enthusiast who enjoys his gadgets; and also in part because one of my very best friends works at Epson and got me the most amazing deal on one right after I had RETURNED a 4:3 Philips to Costco that was SUCH A DOG! The Philips was purchased on a whim because it was HD, a big 60", because it had a promotion which included a free surround sound system with DVD player, and my venerable 48" Mitsubishi had actually exploded recently. The Mitsu was actually about 15 or 17 years old and had been repaired several times already at considerable expense - and now I was told it was beyond repairable. So - with the advent of High Definition emerging I decided to get something cheap as an interim measure... and Costco seemed to have it in the Philips. That was an impulse purchase... and a mistake.

After a few weeks I found some spare time to learn more and more gradually about what was well regarded in equipment and what would have been better for configuration... as in at least having a 16:9 ratio screen and ANY other manufacturer then Philips for starters at the time. Then - I began t notice there was a semipermanent triangular rainbow artifact in 3 of 4 corners. It was prominant and very disturbing in a brand new HDTV. So - to my mild amazement I discovered that Costco had a "no questions asked refund policy of virtually unlimited duration"!!! UNLIMITED TIME DURAATION - NO QUESTIONS ASKED REFUND POLICY. With or WITHOUT a receipt? Who would have imagined that? I still was in disbelief as I confirmed the particulars at their member desk. SO - after arranging for a delivery service to haul it back I obtained a refund to the last penny after having had it for about 14 months! You see ... at 3 months I detected the defect with the rainbow spary in the corners, then at about 6 months I also noticed it was drifting out of convergance with annoying regularity and it did NOT autoconverge. ALso at 6 months I decided these two problems combined with its' rotten reputation from various reviewers convinced me the Philips was a 60" LEMON. So at about 9 months I discovered Costco would take the return. At about 11 months I decided on the replacement = the Epson Livingstation ina 57". At 13 months I had the replacement side by side with the Philips and was comfortable with getting rid of the Philips. At about 14 months my spouse FOUND the original receipt and I returned it. I almost returned the Philips without it and would have lost about $600 - and that would have been OK too.

SO... after I returned the Philips ... Costco simply put it on display as they were still selling new ones in the box. The proce was now $600 less then what I had paid and they made no differentiation between my floor model and the new ones being sold. Evidently they eventually sold it!

My Epson has been fairly nice and I've been happy with it ... especially for the money which was approximatly HALF the cost of a new Epson at the local BIG SCREEN super stores we have out here in Los Angeles. Plus I've enjoied mild "wows" from my digital photography friends who look on the photo handling features and firmware of the Epson with pleasure. Plus the 3 LCD projection system does seem to deliver a good picture with deeper blacks and no rainbow artifacts.


Oh well... gotta run now....
Cheers all!

#12 of 75 Adam Gregorich

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Posted December 14 2006 - 06:49 AM

I don't mind LCD flat panel displays (I have several 26" and below), but the screendoor effect on the 3 chip LCD rear projection TVs really bothers me. I occasionally noticed rainbow on DLP a few years ago, but I haven't noticed it once on my Samsung 61" DLP rear projection set. It was between that and the 3 chip LCOS for me (Sony and JVC) but I saw too much "smearing" (AKA silk screen effect) that bothered me. I have one friend that is very sensative to RBE. He can see it on just about any DLP display. Thankfully I am not one of those people so the better black levels of DLP make that format my top pick.

#13 of 75 ChrisWiggles

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Posted December 14 2006 - 06:55 AM

CRT is still my reference. CRT projection is what I use and is still my display type of choice. 1080p LCOS is second, and 3-chip 1080pDLP is close behind but a great deal more expensive right now.

#14 of 75 Jacob C

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Posted December 14 2006 - 07:10 AM

3 chip DLP if you can afford it. I can't. I think they only make projectors with the 3 chip technology as well so as far as I know there are no rear projection TVs with the 3 chip DLP technology. My understanding is there is no color wheel with the 3 chip version.
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#15 of 75 Kevin C Brown

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Posted December 14 2006 - 12:15 PM

Quote:
The Sony XBR2 displays - if I am not mistaken are using a 3 LCD panel projection method to completely elimenate the color wheel.

You are mixing and matching your technologies. Posted Image *All* LCD displays use 3 chips. Only DLP uses single chip with a color wheel. A 3 chip DLP system will be quite expensive, and yes, doesn't need a color wheel. It's the presence of the color wheel that creates the rainbow effect for single chip systems.
If it's not worth waiting until the last minute to do, then it's not worth doing.

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#16 of 75 captaincrash

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Posted December 18 2006 - 11:48 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob C
3 chip DLP if you can afford it. I can't. I think they only make projectors with the 3 chip technology as well so as far as I know there are no rear projection TVs with the 3 chip DLP technology. My understanding is there is no color wheel with the 3 chip version.

Posted Image

This is my 3 LCD RP HDTV... an Epson Livingstation 720P in 57" size. Some reviewers have said it has a screen door effect but otherwise seems decent. I have NOT noticed any pronounced SDE. I am quite satisfied with it - but am curious about what others think these other display types (plasma, LCD, 3LCD RP, DLP RP, Front projection in all its' configurations, etc.).

I would like to restate that I do appreciate everyones' remarks. It is quite interesting to hear all of your thoughts on this matter.

Are there any comments on front projectors from anyone???

#17 of 75 benjaminBen

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Posted December 20 2006 - 03:20 AM

I have a sony lcd 60 inch xbr2 and i love it, but the main reason i bought it is for playing video games. I think it just matters what you plan to do with the tv.....

#18 of 75 Reginald Trent

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Posted December 20 2006 - 12:09 PM

I prefer DLP because unlike the others there is never a issue with burn in and the image returns to new everytime the bulb is replaced. BTW the only time I see rainbows is after it rains and the sun shines bright. However, if I had the space I would prefer DLP front projection. Posted Image

#19 of 75 Kevin C Brown

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Posted December 20 2006 - 12:33 PM

You bring up a good point: RP's require that the bulb be replaced every few thousand hours (8 hrs/day, 365 days/yr = 2900 hrs; for bulb life I've seen from 2k to 5k hrs). You don't need to do that for a plasma. The half life (the time it takes for the brightness of the display to degrade to 1/2 of its original value) of a plasma is 60,000 hrs.
If it's not worth waiting until the last minute to do, then it's not worth doing.

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#20 of 75 Phil Iturralde

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Posted December 21 2006 - 04:49 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin C Brown
... The half life (the time it takes for the brightness of the display to degrade to 1/2 of its original value) of a plasma is 60,000 hrs.

NOTE: Manufacturers of plasma have estimated the life of these phosphors to be about 60,000 hours. The life of the plasma display itself is usually determined by half-life of the phosphors. So at 30,000 hours the phosphors will be at their half-life, and the viewer will be seeing an image that has half the brightness capability that it did when originally purchased. This should be a good point at which to consider its life over. The gases in plasma TVs cannot be replaced. There is no phenomenon of "pumping" new gases into a plasma display.

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